A confused psychology major

Spiritual Leo

Spiritual Leo

On Holiday
MBTI
INFJ
Enneagram
Thinker
A man who is consistently searching for god, but also trying to understand science at the same time.

If you have had a near death experience where you traveled down a tunnel toward a bright light, I have good news for you: When blood and oxygen flow is depleted to the eye, you can experience dark tunnel-like vision with a bright white light at the end of the tunnel; which can occur during severely stressful situations and near-death experiences. Although seeing your life flash before your eyes is unexplainable, scientists are working on it as we speak.

Perfectly important, when you Think that you have experienced a departure to another reality, your almost certainly experiencing abnormal functioning of the neurotransmitter dopamine which can evoke hallucinations.

Additionally, the temporal lobes seem to light up when experiencing god, so how can we understand this: take a electromagnetic coil, attach it to the right side of your brain, stimulate a small group of brain cells in your right temporal lobe by electic waves, then you will experience "god."

Dr. Michael Persinger- God Helmet- Look it up

^^^Wouldn't that count for empirical evidence?

Isn't there, at this point, a neurological and psychological explanation for why we feel what we feel and believe what we believe?

How can I possibly understand what happens after death?- No one knows

If we have souls, then how could a soul feel hell fire? Feeling fire is something that a humin being can do Physically. . . A spirit is not a physical being, so how does it feel? If it can't feel, then it must be able to have some form of dark or light energy, right? If spirits exist, then we were all in spirit before. Spiritual life wouldn't be affected by physical death because it is a life form which has no form. It would be boundless and free, so how could it be controlled???

I really want to understand better.
 
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I try not to think about what happens after we die because it makes me kinda depressed.
 
Oh goody! Great questions! You realize you will spend your entire life looking for the answers and probably will never have them. Enjoy the ride. :D

There is a lot of controversy about near death experiences. It's too much for me to summarize, but I can say I'm on the fence about them. I talk about NDE as a kind of "this might be reality, but then again it might not be."

The biology of spiritual perception is fascinating. The fact that we find a biological mechanism doesn't automaticall mean that something is real or unreal. If I hear something, certain areas of my brain are used. If I hallucinate voices, those same areas are used. It's a good general rule of thumb to trust your senses, but always have a red flag up that it MIGHT not be real.

That said, I'd love to hear a discussion about the portion of our brain that is devoted to thinking about G-d and spiritual stuff. I think that on an evolutionary level, one of two things must be happening: either we are evolving a new sense which is still in the muggy stages, or there is some OTHER less obvious benefit we get from having evolved this manner of thinking. A fabulous book for discussion is "The GOD Part of the Brain: a Scientific Interpretation of Human Spirituality and God" by Matthew Alper.

I'm personally uninclined to speculate on life after death. First, it's simply irrelevant to how I live my life. I'm very focused on loving G-d with all my heart and my neighbor as myself. It's my responsibility to take of my own behavior, right here, right now. I'm perfectly content to leave worries about the afterlife to G-d -- I'm sure that whatever is to come, be it reincarnation, or heaven, or feeding worms, will be just fine.

As to whether or not we have souls.. Hmmmm. I think it is obvious that we are more than the sum of our parts. So I defintely believe in a "soul" as a way to describe that synergistic totality. I don't know if souls are immortal. I do enjoy reading studies which investigate the harder questions of what does "alive" mean. Our auras are an interesting field of study. I have always thought that all life had souls. As an adult, I've also had experiences which make me wonder if even inaminate objects have souls of some sort. Basically, I'm saying I'm inclined to believe in a "soul," but I don't really have a good definition for what a "soul" is. It is not unusual for me to intuit things BEFORE I understand them, so I'm comfortable with this ambiguity.
 
Oh goody! Great questions! You realize you will spend your entire life looking for the answers and probably will never have them. Enjoy the ride. :D
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Yea, there are too many questions that will never be answered for me to find any set belief system... The American Psychological Association released the Varieties of Anomalous Experiences in 2008, and I think that you would enjoy it alot.

Nice reply, it was very interesting and thought provoking.
 
I'm sure it's worth it. However, I'm living on $900/mo, of which $550 goes to rent. A book like this I can only look at through the store window and salivate. :D
 
you make a lot of assumptions about the spirit
 
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Barnabas said:
you make a lot of assumptions about the spirit
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I don't make a lot of assumptions about spirits; I have a lot of questions about spirits. Do you really think that strict dogmatic religions like Christianity can answer anything about spirits? The bible has too many contradictions to be taken seriously- It makes no plausible claim, in my view.

Also, how do you know anything about spirits? I am trying to understand, but it is incredibly difficult....

Tell me something interesting about spirits.
 
I don't understand why people care so much for the time that they will die.

You did not exist for 13 billions years before you were born. Do you care for this time you didn't exist? Are you scared of it? Likewise it will be after your death.
 
safidi said:
I don't understand why people care so much for the time that they will die.

You did not exist for 13 billions years before you were born. Do you care for this time you didn't exist? Are you scared of it? Likewise it will be after your death.
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Actually, I have a Thread dedicated to dying... Read it, it's called.. "Death"

I am not in fear of death because I am not in fear of living. Socrates said it best, "It isn't living that matters, it's living rightly."

Congratulations and welcome to the forum, You will be sure to find some interesting things...

And as for your question: I just want to understand all that I can :-)
 
I always remember this:

One of most basic laws of science is the Law of the Conservation of Energy. Energy cannot be created or destroyed; it can only be changed from one form to another.

Energy is not currently being created. The universe could not have created itself using natural processes because nature did not exist before the universe came into existence. Something beyond nature must have created all the energy and matter that is observed today. Present measures of energy are immeasurably enormous, indicating a power source so great that "infinite" is the best word we have to describe it.

The logical conclusion is that our supernatural Creator with infinite power created the universe. There is no energy source capable to originate what we observe today.
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Human Beings are of energy ... where does it go after we "die"?
 
Spiritual Leo said:
I don't make a lot of assumptions about spirits; I have a lot of questions about spirits. Do you really think that strict dogmatic religions like Christianity can answer anything about spirits? The bible has too many contradictions to be taken seriously- It makes no plausible claim, in my view.

Also, how do you know anything about spirits? I am trying to understand, but it is incredibly difficult....

Tell me something interesting about spirits.
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uh-huh, my point being that you make a lot of assumptions of the spirit

If we have souls, then how could a soul feel hell fire? Feeling fire is something that a humin being can do Physically. . . A spirit is not a physical being, so how does it feel? If it can't feel, then it must be able to have some form of dark or light energy, right? If spirits exist, then we were all in spirit before. Spiritual life wouldn't be affected by physical death because it is a life form which has no form. It would be boundless and free, so how could it be controlled???
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Don't be mistaken when I say you make a lot of assumptions in thinking that, I take all you've said as truth or as factual statements. You've admitted yourself that you don't particularly know much about spirits. But why must spirits if they feel have dark or light energy? Is your soul a spirit? Also why must we have all been strictly spiritual in nature before? before what? Why wouldn't death affect the spirit? why doesn't it(the spirit) have a form? is it really boundless and free?

The spirit in Christianity is a much simpler concept, and appears to be vastly different from what you think it is. The spirit in Christianity is life, it's God, and for faithfull Christians it's our counselor. It's not in opposition to the physical body, it's not lord of over it or opposed to it as Plato or Greek Gnostics might argue. It works in step with the body, both being good things.
 
Barnabas said:
uh-huh, my point being that you make a lot of assumptions of the spirit



Don't be mistaken when I say you make a lot of assumptions in thinking that, I take all you've said as truth or as factual statements. You've admitted yourself that you don't particularly know much about spirits. But why must spirits if they feel have dark or light energy? Is your soul a spirit? Also why must we have all been strictly spiritual in nature before? before what? Why wouldn't death affect the spirit? why doesn't it(the spirit) have a form? is it really boundless and free?

The spirit in Christianity is a much simpler concept, and appears to be vastly different from what you think it is. The spirit in Christianity is life, it's God, and for faithfull Christians it's our counselor. It's not in opposition to the physical body, it's not lord of over it or opposed to it as Plato or Greek Gnostics might argue. It works in step with the body, both being good things.
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Well, you threw some good questions at me, and I still stand firm with my original claim: I don't know. The concept is too abstract for me to conceive of it, so I guess that I will remain clueless. Psychology and cognitive neuroscience may have answered some of my questions about god, but not many.

The philisophical approach to religion is the best, in my view, but I am unsure.

If there are steps I can take to understanding god, or spirits, then where do I start??

I agree with GracieRuth .. . . . I will continue to search, but I may never find the answers.

Interesting counter objection, I enjoyed reading it.... Now I am even more confused than before :-)
 
I think "spirit" in the simplest sense could be considered the human consciousness. As Sutherland said, "it is impossible to specify what it is, what it does, or why it has evolved." Religion and superstition have ascribed it supernatural properties. Psychology even today struggles to develop an operational definition of consciousness that can be measured.

To make it even more complex, when humans interact, each human's consciousness influences other consciousnesses and that leads to strange collective consciousnesses that are the basis of culture. Complex systems like language and art, which are based on nothing but human consciousness, emerge from these collectives.

The fact that humans are conscious of their consciousness creates many existential problems as we try to figure out the meaning behind our existence, ponder our place in the universe, and consider the weight and value of our choices as they affect others.

Why do I exist? What do I really know? What should I do with my life? How should I treat others and how do I expect them to treat me? How can I deal with the inevitable suffering that is part of life? Philosophy and spirituality have developed to explore these questions.

Our greatest limitation is that we can only explore consciousness through consciousness so we have no idea what reality is like outside of consciousness. Is there objective answers to these questions from some external design or authority to the universe or is it purely random?

My own personal sense is that the human mind is still incredibly simple. It is still driven by the animalistic drives for self preservation, reproduction, and tribalism inherent in all primates. At the same time we have existential drives such as seeking personal growth and actualization which are competing against our animalistic drives. We are constantly trying to conceive of reasons to delay gratifying our animalistic drives so that we can gratify our existential drives and at the same time we are constantly trying to make sense out of a seemingly cold and unforgiving universe. These two challenges seem insurmountable to a lot of human beings.

Human consciousness possesses intuition and imagination and these are generally the tools we use to form assumptions that are the basis for our beliefs about ourselves and the world. For some, their intuition and imagination lead them to believe in supernatural or mystical answers and for others the assumptions form the basis of reasoning and observation which lead to natural or scientific answers.
 
Peace said:
I think "spirit" in the simplest sense could be considered the human consciousness. As Sutherland said, "it is impossible to specify what it is, what it does, or why it has evolved." Religion and superstition have ascribed it supernatural properties. Psychology even today struggles to develop an operational definition of consciousness that can be measured.

To make it even more complex, when humans interact, each human's consciousness influences other consciousnesses and that leads to strange collective consciousnesses that are the basis of culture. Complex systems like language and art, which are based on nothing but human consciousness, emerge from these collectives.

The fact that humans are conscious of their consciousness creates many existential problems as we try to figure out the meaning behind our existence, ponder our place in the universe, and consider the weight and value of our choices as they affect others.

Why do I exist? What do I really know? What should I do with my life? How should I treat others and how do I expect them to treat me? How can I deal with the inevitable suffering that is part of life? Philosophy and spirituality have developed to explore these questions.

Our greatest limitation is that we can only explore consciousness through consciousness so we have no idea what reality is like outside of consciousness. Is there objective answers to these questions from some external design or authority to the universe or is it purely random?

My own personal sense is that the human mind is still incredibly simple. It is still driven by the animalistic drives for self preservation, reproduction, and tribalism inherent in all primates. At the same time we have existential drives such as seeking personal growth and actualization which are competing against our animalistic drives. We are constantly trying to conceive of reasons to delay gratifying our animalistic drives so that we can gratify our existential drives and at the same time we are constantly trying to make sense out of a seemingly cold and unforgiving universe. These two challenges seem insurmountable to a lot of human beings.

Human consciousness possesses intuition and imagination and these are generally the tools we use to form assumptions that are the basis for our beliefs about ourselves and the world. For some, their intuition and imagination lead them to believe in supernatural or mystical answers and for others the assumptions form the basis of reasoning and observation which lead to natural or scientific answers.
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Your my hero... That was one of the most interesting replies that I have heard in a long time. Welcome to the forums!
 
Sorry, but the God helmet does not disprove God. It only stimulates certain areas of the brain, in other words It only proves what it does (that it is possible for the mind to affected by an outside magnetic field) and at most question the certainty of spiritual experiences. But since people don't have to believe in a God to be spiritual, nor does God theologically have to communicate with people through the means that the God helmet attempts to expose, I seriously doubt the claims it makes.
 
Matariki said:
Sorry, but the God helmet does not disprove God. It only stimulates certain areas of the brain, in other words It only proves what it does (that it is possible for the mind to affected by an outside magnetic field) and at most question the certainty of spiritual experiences. But since people don't have to believe in a God to be spiritual, nor does God theologically have to communicate with people through the means that the God helmet attempts to expose, I seriously doubt the claims it makes.
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First of all, there is absolutely no way to disprove the existence of a God and I never claimed to even try. Dr Michael Persinger's God Helmet experience does provide empirical evidence that God may only exist inside of our heads. You were right when you said "that it is possible for the mind to affected by an outside magnetic field" because our nervous system runs on bio chemistry and bio-Electricity. With that in mind, we must also understand that living cells inside of our bodies can create electromagnetic fields.... Further, who is to say that god isn't the electromagnetic spectrum above us?

No one knows how it affects our minds...

I am lost when it comes to understanding god
 
Has anyone ever taken up extreme measures to find God? Like starving yourself for a significant amount of time, putting your arm in the air for 30 years, praying for more than 5 min (and ppraying while you are doing other things isnt counting for the questions in my post, that is cheating), etc etc etc. That seems to be where it is at.

Perhaps has anyone taken up something really extreme like giving the poor all of your belongings, cashing out all your goods and donating it to the poor? I hear that is good for the soul as well. More so than the stuff in the first paragraph.
 
Spiritual Leo said:
First of all, there is absolutely no way to disprove the existence of a God and I never claimed to even try. Dr Michael Persinger's God Helmet experience does provide empirical evidence that God may only exist inside of our heads. You were right when you said "that it is possible for the mind to affected by an outside magnetic field" because our nervous system runs on bio chemistry and bio-Electricity. With that in mind, we must also understand that living cells inside of our bodies can create electromagnetic fields.... Further, who is to say that god isn't the electromagnetic spectrum above us?

No one knows how it affects our minds...

I am lost when it comes to understanding god
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I know, I knew you weren't using it as evidence for or against but its one that I see crop up on a frequent basis amongst new atheists in particular. So I felt some pointers needed to be addressed. I can say the God helmet disproves the 'God of the gaps' (I can't explain it, therefore God did it) idea (which is considered to be a theological fallacy).
Philosophy Is a good place to start which will help you understand the arguments for and against the existence of God. I suggest watching some professional debates on youtube. Dr. William Lane Craig and Professor John Lennox are worth keeping an eye out for.
 
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