Why hate Libertarians?

[wolly.green]

Why the hate for Libertarians? A couple of weeks ago I stumbled across a few comments on this forum. They implied that libertarians are both nieve and selfish. Is this view common here? And are there any libertarians here that feel misunderstood?

I feel that "selfish" and "nieve" are inapposite labels. My values might seem that way to an INFJ, but it is, in fact, false. So completely false it annoys me (hence this rant) As an INTP, I appreciate logical consistency. In searching for values, a care much for those that are internally consistency. The reason for this is simple, a logical contradiction is nonsense. A theory that is self contradictory is, by definition, false. So in searching for values that are internally consistent, I am actually searching for truth.

The reason I like Libertarianism is because it is the only political system I know of that is internally consistent. Every other system, including: Socialism, Communism, Capitalism...... eventually unravel into some sort of logical contradiction. And since a theory (including a political system) that unravels into a logical contradiction is false, it follows that it can be ruled out.

Now I'm not saying Libertarianism is true -- far from in fact. But since it is the only system I have yet to discover a contradiction in, it is the only one I have yet to rule out. "Selfishness" has nothing to do with it.

 

[Eventhorizon]

I do not know if libertarians are disliked.
I consider myself at least partly libertarian.
I will say though libertarians that are given face time in the media come off as uninformed a great deal of the time. They give off the air of wimpyness. There is no take charge leadership quality about them.

 

[sprinkles]

I like the ideology, I'm just not sure that humans can be trusted with it.

 

[wolly.green]

I do not know if libertarians are disliked.
I consider myself at least partly libertarian.
I will say though libertarians that are given face time in the media come off as uninformed a great deal of the time. They give off the air of wimpyness. There is no take charge leadership quality about them.

It's a shame the core explanations behind libertarianism are lost beneath the face of some lunatic. If you have a sound argument, it matters not whether you are Sean Spicer or Satan.

 

[the]

It's a shame the core explanations behind libertarianism are lost beneath the face of some lunatic. If you have a sound argument, it matters not whether you are Sean Spicer or Satan.

The logic and argument behind the theory is really irrelevant. Libertarianism appeals to naive and selfish men-children. Who wants to adhere to a political theory that turns people into that?

 

[Eventhorizon]

The logic and argument behind the theory is really irrelevant. Libertarianism appeals to naive and selfish men-children. Who wants to adhere to a political theory that turns people into that?

Where have you gotten your definition of libertarianism from? I don't know how you can come to that conclusion.

 

[the]

Where have you gotten your definition of libertarianism from? I don't know how you can come to that conclusion.

The internet, tv, real life, books, etc.

 

[Eventhorizon]

The internet, tv, real life, books, etc.

What do you disagree with specifically if you don't mind my asking?

 

[wolly.green]

The logic and argument behind the theory is really irrelevant. Libertarianism appeals to naive and selfish men-children. Who wants to adhere to a political theory that turns people into that?

I already explained why logic is important. It's alright to disagree, but your character judgements are harsh and unfair, if not completely and utterly wrong.

 

[the]

I already explained why logic is important. It's alright to disagree, but your character judgements are harsh and unfair, if not completely and utterly wrong.

Logic is important in a way, but it's not that important. When it comes to the way people behave it can be pretty much discarded. Logic has been unable to hold a place of power in the political system anyways.

What do you disagree with specifically if you don't mind my asking?

I actually think it has a lot of fair points. The problem is that the people who are involved tend to be the worst. I don't want to be or become that kind of person. I don't want to associate with libertarians either.

My main points of contention are that 1. you have to have everyone on board to behave and 2. logically it leads to a situation where the biggest and richest will just become the new ruler/dictator.

 

[Rcs6r]

The logic and argument behind the theory is really irrelevant. Libertarianism appeals to naive and selfish men-children. Who wants to adhere to a political theory that turns people into that?

 

[acd]

2. logically it leads to a situation where the biggest and richest will just become the new ruler/dictator.

This would be my issue with it. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, but when I talk to libertarians, it seems like they want minimal government regulation and taxes, and think that the market will regulate everything fairly. It seems that the end result would just be corporations running and exploiting everything for profit. Either way, someone is in power and it's not the people. I think it's kind of a naive ideology that hopes people will act in each other's interests or cooperatively. At worst, it's social darwinism. School me if you disagree, OP. I admit I haven't taken the time to really study it.

I found it really off putting years ago when Ron and Rand Paul came out saying that the Civil Rights act was about controlling private property.

I agree that desegregation didn't solve racism in the US... Racism is still very present, but it was essential in ensuring that all people are treated equally. It was a start and I think we have come a long way because of it. My fundamental disagreement is that I don't think the market is going to solve social issues. I think people should be treated equally under the law. You either tout the rights of business and property owners over the rights of others, or you tout the rights of individuals over money. It just seems libertarians prioritize the rights of those with money and power over those without it.

And I don't hate libertarians though I am not a fan of their ideology.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Odd. Libertarians attitude of live and let live I would think appeal to many here. It doesn't matter how you live your life...who you marry etc so long as you don't hurt anyone else. But I guess the idea that you would still have to work for a living doesn't appeal to many liberals.

 

[acd]

Odd. Libertarians attitude of live and let live I would think appeal to many here. It doesn't matter how you live your life...who you marry etc so long as you don't hurt anyone else. But I guess the idea that you would still have to work for a living doesn't appeal to many liberals.

Nope you are incorrect. Read my post above.

 

[Rcs6r]

It doesn't matter how you live your life...who you marry etc so long as you don't hurt anyone else.

That's the basis of true Libertarianism as far as I know, and works great as a personal social philosophy. As a political ideology, it doesn't necessarily work because the total lack of regulation can lead to all kinds of messes.

Libertarianism assumes that everyone would act fair and just towards one another and we know that's definitely not the case.

 

[the]

Odd. Libertarians attitude of live and let live I would think appeal to many here. It doesn't matter how you live your life...who you marry etc so long as you don't hurt anyone else. But I guess the idea that you would still have to work for a living doesn't appeal to many liberals.

"don't hurt anyone else" is up for interpretation and is unrealistic if you are out to accomplish something in life.

But let's use you as en example. You aren't exactly sophisticated in your ideas or thinking, and definitely not in your writing. Part of my opinion on libertarianism comes from what I read you say. And then this comes out of left field: "But I guess the idea that you would still have to work for a living doesn't appeal to many liberals", as if it is relevant to anything said here. Just one example of many.

Side note: The whole "Odd" shtick, as if you are totally bewildered... you just come off as totally idiotic.

 

[Eventhorizon]

"don't hurt anyone else" is up for interpretation and is unrealistic if you are out to accomplish something in life.

But let's use you as en example. You aren't exactly sophisticated in your ideas or thinking, and definitely not in your writing. Part of my opinion on libertarianism comes from what I read you say. And then this comes out of left field: "But I guess the idea that you would still have to work for a living doesn't appeal to many liberals", as if it is relevant to anything said here. Just one example of many.

Side note: The whole "Odd" shtick, as if you are totally bewildered... you just come off as totally idiotic.

Wow. This hurt.
I guess I am not sophisticated and would just have to hope I could fall back on my intellect to make it in life. I think I would be fine with living that way so yeah, let's bring it on. Seriously, In a world where people only had themselves to rely on I would be a tycoon while the majority of the rest of the population died. You'd be ok though the. I like you and would let you work for me. There would have to be ground rules though. Id want to make sure I was getting my money's worth. Be to work on time etc... but at least you wouldn't die where if you had to rely on yourself I don't see you lasting more than a month.

 

[Eventhorizon]

the would probably kill you and take over.

Sprinkles in for the kill.
I'd be hurt if I had ANY concern if ANYONE being any type of threat to my existence.
Thanks for the thought though.

 

[sprinkles]

Sprinkles in for the kill.
I'd be hurt if I had ANY concern if ANYONE being any type of threat to my existence.
Thanks for the thought though.

It was a joke. And I deleted it because your weird editing created a time paradox where it looked like I posted before you.

Anyway though. If you're not a tycoon already I don't think you'd have an easier time becoming one if we get rid of laws against fixing and barriers to entry. The actual tycoons that already exist would see to it that you don't become competition.

 

[acd]

Wow. This hurt.
I guess I am not sophisticated and would just have to hope I could fall back on my intellect to make it in life. I think I would be fine with living that way so yeah, let's bring it on. Seriously, In a world where people only had themselves to rely on I would be a tycoon while the majority of the rest of the population died. You'd be ok though the. I like you and would let you work for me. There would have to be ground rules though. Id want to make sure I was getting my money's worth. Be to work on time etc... but at least you wouldn't die where if you had to rely on yourself I don't see you lasting more than a month.

What's stopping you from being a tycoon right now?