Ireland's New Abortion Laws

[Wanch]

I'm so disappointed that they refused rape and incest cases. That's so disappointing for Ireland. At least now there is the mother's health and suicide-risk situations legalized. The stories you hear of people going for multiple flippant abortions just doesn't happen with rational people. I heard somewhere that your body can only withstand that sort of invasive procedure 3-4 times in your life before it becomes a serious risk and you may not heal. No rational woman wants to use abortion as some kind of contraceptive. It's very small minded of others to demand women go through birth of unwanted kids. Even if the woman was in a loving relationship at the time, if they aren't ready for kids and are certain they don't want to go through with a pregnancy, I believe that should be that. There are more than enough children already awaiting homes in adoption centres, they shouldn't have to put it up, if they don't want to. I agree that the abortion should be within the first trimester and before the baby is cognitive, but as long as that criteria is met then I'd have 0 issue with complete freedom of choice. Too few people actually look into the subject and instead just think, 'oh I guess I think babies should be born, I mean that's obvious right?'.

 

[Littlelissa]

Yes, you could equally argue that it is irresponsible to (have to) have a child that, for whatever reason, you do not feel adaquately able to raise.

 

[Eventhorizon]

On the one hand it ridiculous for anyone to accept being told what they can or cannot do with their own body.

On the other I believe all life is precious.

I used to think there should be mandatory evaluation of a woman wanting an abortion as a minimum to make sure she was in control of her senses. If found So, it's simply her choice.

Then again all life is precious.

To live in such a hostile environment we find ourselves in the universe. And yet, the universe gave birth to life as we know it.

 

[5r6jhd]

On the one hand it ridiculous for anyone to accept being told what they can or cannot do with their own body.

On the other I believe all life is precious.

I used to think there should be mandatory evaluation of a woman wanting an abortion as a minimum to make sure she was in control of her senses. If found So, it's simply her choice.

Then again all life is precious.

To live in such a hostile environment we find ourselves in the universe. And yet, the universe gave birth to life as we know it.

Do you not think that's a little insulting and sexist?

At least in my country, women have to be made sure they "are in control of their senses" for anything in relation to their reproductive rights while men can do whatever the fuck they want. You want a vasectomy at 20? No problem!

 

[Eventhorizon]

Do you not think that's a little insulting and sexist?

At least in my country, women have to be made sure they "are in control of their senses" for anything in relation to their reproductive rights while men can do whatever the fuck they want. You want a vasectomy at 20? No problem!

First you asked. Second you are taking it way out of context. Only women can have children, only women can have abortions. So implying it has anything to do with men clearly doesn't work.
In control of ones senses only means things like, not on drugs at the time they decide, hasn't been in a car accident and just hit their head, wasn't threatened by her boyfriend into having an abortion she may not want etc...

 

[invisible]

Perhaps something like when you get a tattoo where you sign a form that says "I have not been drinking alcohol"?

 

[5r6jhd]

First you asked. Second you are taking it way out of context. Only women can have children, only women can have abortions. So implying it has anything to do with men clearly doesn't work.
In control of ones senses only means like, not on drugs at the time they decide, hasn't been in a car accident and just hit their head, wasn't threatened by her boyfriend into having an abortion she may not want etc...

I don't think im taking anything out of context at all. It's a womans body and i think a woman has the right to decide what to do with her body. She shouldn't have to go through testing to be allowed to make choices for herself.

 

[Eventhorizon]

I don't think im taking anything out of context at all. It's a womans body and i think a woman has the right to decide what to do with her body. She shouldn't have to go through testing to be allowed to make choices for herself.

Good. I'm not saying anything different only indicating that life and death is a big choice. Things can change in the human body, chemicals, lack of proper chemicals, outside stimuli that can cause changes of perception on any given day. Sometimes waiting a day can give a person an entirely different perspective.

Anyway it's an emotional subject. It's very difficult to have an open discussion about these types of things.

 

[invisible]

Nah... I am with Kat on this one. I think that if she books into a clinic for an abortion and then presents to the clinic to have an abortion at the day she has booked it, then she has definitely spent adequate time and energy considering the implications of the decision.

 

[5r6jhd]

Good. I'm not saying anything different only indicating that life and death is a big choice. Things can change in the human body, chemicals, lack of proper chemicals, outside stimuli that can cause changes of perception on any given day. Sometimes waiting a day can give a person an entirely different perspective.

Anyway it's an emotional subject. It's very difficult to have an open discussion about these types of things.

You're right, it is. I apologise if I'm coming off angry or aggressive, I am not intending to be. I hear what you are saying, I just disagree.

I don't know about all abortion clinics, but I think the ones in my part of the world do have a process. You can't just come in and demand an abortion. You generally go through a counselling session first to make sure its what you want and that you've thought about all of your options, but at the end of the day no one is going to stop you.

You make a valid point about the different ways the human body can be affected. My issue is that people will discuss all of that in terms of a woman deciding to abort but no one will discuss how even though women are designed to give birth, its not an easy thing to do. It can seriously effect all areas of health, and that is not something to be taken lightly either.

At the end ofthe day we are grown women. Even if we feel like we've made a mistake, it is OUR mistake to make.

 

[Eventhorizon]

You're right, it is. I apologise if I'm coming off angry or aggressive, I am not intending to be. I hear what you are saying, I just disagree.

I don't know about all abortion clinics, but I think the ones in my part of the world do have a process. You can't just come in and demand an abortion. You generally go through a counselling session first to make sure its what you want and that you've thought about all of your options, but at the end of the day no one is going to stop you.

You make a valid point about the different ways the human body can be affected. My issue is that people will discuss all of that in terms of a woman deciding to abort but no one will discuss how even tough women are designed to give birth, its not an easy thing to do. It can seriously effect all areas of health, and that is not something to be taken lightly either.

At the end ofthe day we are grown women. Even if we feel like we've made a mistake, it is OUR mistake to make.

At the end of the day it is your choice to make. I fully agree.

 

[ImaginaryBloke]

Yes. This has been a huge part of the Repeal the 8th Campaign. Irish women in need of abortion have to travel over to England to have the procedure done. This is technically illegal. A number of years ago there was a case of a 14 year old girl who was stopped and arrested by the police for preparing to travel to the UK.

In the last year or two there have been people creating anonymous accounts and live tweeting the stages of their abortion journey to the UK.

I think that culture, language and geography have a role to play in shaping abortion legislation.

I have heard of stories about women traveling abroad from Ireland to the UK for abortion. A common language makes this journey possible. Going to France would be more difficult.

Unlike Ireland, the Polish government recently passed a stricter law to reduce the number of abortions. Numbers fell from 100,000 to less than 1,000. Polish women have an easier access to going abroad, so they went to Slovakia and Czech Republic whose languages are related. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ke-its-already-strict-abortion-law-draconian/)

In both countries, the Catholic Church is dominant and shapes culture of the population. The Irish are more isolated.

Another interesting aspect is the pattern of legislation. In the US, states tend to pass legislation that restricts abortion a tiny bit. This is designed to scare low-income voters into turning out in local elections and to play a sociopathic tit-for-tat with the opponent. I mean, if abortion prohibitionists were honest they would go for a total/nearly total ban of abortion immediately.

If American and Irish women had a better access to going abroad, their elections would be more about real issues and less about circus.

 

[Faye]

I do think abortion should be legal. If politicians really want to decrease the numbers of abortions that occur, then they should support legislation for social services that make being a mother less difficult. It is hypocritical of them to want to outlaw abortion and then not want to provide any sort of support for the children once they are born. The people who are against abortion are largely the same people that want to cut food stamps and other benefit programs from the already meager social safety net. They do not care about a child after he or she is born.

if abortion prohibitionists were honest they would go for a total/nearly total ban of abortion immediately.

In the US, they would but they lose because of Roe v. Wade. Any legislation barring it in a given state will be struck down because of the precedence of this decision, and it will remain that way until the supreme court reverses it. So that is why they do things like up requirements for centers that provide abortion, go after planned parenthood funding, etc. In Texas, they were able to force the majority of their abortion clinics to close in this manner.