INFJ's Obsession with Power

Zero Angel said:
I don't know really. A sense of inferiority is something I struggle with on a near-daily basis. I can only alleviate it temporarily by accomplishing something. Nothing seems to work on it really, not logic, or affirmation or attention seeking or any other methods one uses to boost ones self esteem. I suppose it is a pattern that works itself out in time.
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I have this same challenge as well. When I feel inferior I tend to lash out internally....I let my shadow fantasize too much about power and control at those moments.
 
anica said:
I may have misunderstood the part of this quote about being a friend of the state. To me the state is part of the bureaucratic machine that oppresses rather than helps the people it is supposed to serve, and therefore it is my enemy; at the very least an obstacle to seeing injustices righted, to seeing even the poorest among us treated as valuable. I want to see an end to political posturing while people starve in the streets, to stop "providers"--agencies created to help the poor, the disabled, the elderly--make their profits off the backs of those they are supposed to support. I'm not talking about the new middle-class poor that Obama seems to focus on, though certainly there are injustices there that need to be addressed; I'm talking about the invisible, the marginalized, those at the very bottom of the ladder, those that make us avert our eyes when we pass them on the street.

When I was younger, I joined in demonstrations against such inequities, got arrested, etc., but as I grow older I see that as a waste of my passion. I've come to believe you can't win at city hall or even our nation's capital, much less corporate America. Recently I've begun to see art as a more effective avenue. If powerful enough, it grabs the attention of the populace, and forces people to focus on what they would otherwise ignore. It can raise the consciousness of people more readily than all the letter writing to legislators, all the chanting in the halls of power. Once the injustices are exposed, and large numbers of people are moved to do something about it, sufficient pressure can be brought to bear on politicians, the bureaucrats, the corporations. Then you have allies. I'm realistic enough to know it won't save everyone, but even if it provides a helping hand to some, there's accomplishment, but it all starts with one person or a small group of people dedicated to bettering the lives of the oppressed.

Some examples: I can't remember her first name but there is a "Kennedy", a younger woman, who did a pictoral/bio history of a couple of families in the Appalachians. It focused on their abject poverty and drew national attention to the people's plight and it helped a "few" of them in a big way. Charley Wilson's war; a U.S. Senator couldn't get the government to do anything about the Russians brutalizing Afghan citizens so he "found a way" to do it himself and it worked until the bureaucracy got ahold of it and it went to shit again. Many of Johnny Cash's songs were written because of social or personal wrongs he experienced and was made aware of. The same is true of John Prine, Woody Guthrie, etc.. Willie Nelson's farm-aid, didn't work for most but did help some. And the list goes on.

Anyway, those are my early Friday morning ramblings. Hope they make sense.
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Anica, It is written maybe not verbatim, " For we wrestle not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places", etc.
You are touching on things I have fought with and dealt with much over the years.....many have and many will. I think it is a battle against right and wrong (the trick question). I am reminded of, " The letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." Bear with me a minute and follow through this way of thinking for a moment. The Ten Commandments are as the letter of the law. It is written, "When lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin; and when sin is finished, it bringeth forth death." Also, "The wages of sin is death". In all I have done, and try I have, I cannot help but to lust. It may not be as badly as many years ago, but it is human nature and it is there. One of the ten laws said not to covet. That placed everyone under condemnation with the letter of the law; the outcome of which was death.
Therefore, the letter killeth. The spirit of the law was to love your neighbor and I say even yourself, not as yourself. I know the group I am talking to here. Therefore, the spirit of the law giveth life. Almost like the "dos and the don'ts"; Our life is lived with more fullness if we do as we should do. We live under what I call the burden of the law if we live our life trying to
not do anything wrong. We then have a positive aspect in life to follow rather than a negative. There is nothing wrong with the law and it is holy, but it was such as was needed at the time and has its purpose now. They say even if a person knows to do good and does it not, it is sin. Walking the edge there, are we not?
I believe each individual has a special gift about them and some find and use it while others find and harness it. If you have found the gift of art to be your means of doing that which you feel the need to do, you may very well have found your own unique way of communication to others. It is a wonderful thing to communicate our just feelings to the world; it may be a way of getting things accomplished in this earth way above even our own understanding. That, in and of itself, keeps me in awe with the little things in life; like a greenish in appearance comet racing through the universe in a different direction than all the other heavenly bodies.
 
o.o... I am scared now...:m169:
no wonder that reputation thing on this forum is called power <.<... u power-obsessed ppl u XP

I will never look at my INFJ friend the same, nah jk. I already knew she liked power, but power over me should prove to be a difficulty ;).
:mhula:
 
For me power is that thing one should use it for wisdom and to encourage others. It is very easy to influence others. You can get many friends or things in your life by influencing others, but remember this is not your true power. True power has its own strength, you can compare it to feather. Wise man/woman uses power to help others, to support other and to encourage others. They can make relationships. They can make anything they wanted to create. They can create opportunities in their life.

What do you think about my comment, people, please let me know? I am on right track or no...
 
I think that power is something that may have gotten a bad rap over time. What is that famous quote that got made into a movie with Clint Eastwood: "Absolute Power corrupts absolutely" I dont think the quote is quite right. That is the gist so to speak.

I think in terms of Buddhism: we can get stuck in the world of hunger. Hunger for food, money,and or power. Food is necessary but we can overdue it and become overweight. Power is the same idea I think. Too much of a good thing so to speak.

I think of power as being empowered. We need to have a sense of who we are and that we have some influence in our lives. Not control that can be damaging we dont have control of things.

If we are not empowered then we are powerless and that is not how anyone wants to feel. You get beat up by situations or experiences. You need a healthy sense of empowerment in order to feel safe in the world. It is hen we are empowered that we feel that we can have some positive influence in the world.

Like anything, we can overdue it. I think that we need to have a healthy respect for power and realize that we do have some influence over our own happiness and situations.
 
To me, power is responsibility.

It's having the power and responsibility to look after people and do what you think is right, but also knowing when to stop and leave people alone.
I would only want the power to show people where they're going wrong to help them, I would never want to be able to control people.

Ugh... sounds so cheesy....
 
Interesting idea.

Yes, I think power does relate to some inner quality....maybe integrity/truth, self-directedness, focus/intensity...coupled with generosity....the power is not "about us."

In light of this, I think there may be a relationship to introversion because one generally has to live within this force on a level that is distinct from the crowd...the two would be like two distinct circles that overlap to a degree. Inner power that relies too much on our surroundings is frustrated...it has to disconnect to realize it's rightful place within. However, from that place of seperateness we are free to do great good and impact the world around us.

Just a thought based on what I have seen personally.
 
I tend to gravitate towards responsibility. When I am in a position of authority over people (usually as a teacher or director) I tend to be quite "nice". During my years as an instructor/professor I never received less than a perfect score on the student evaluation question: "The instructor is accommodating to student needs" or other similarly worded questions. Yesterday I had a group of my adult beginning music students perform for the first time, and there were plenty of mistakes which they felt self-critical about, so I reassured them I was proud of them and pointed out all the instances that went well. They learned a great deal and enjoyed the experience of it. It was fantastic.

I like being in a position of responsibility, authority, and influence because I tend to know how to make other people feel strong and willing to take risks. I can dismantle most of the distracting fear and inhibition because that is the very thing I have struggled with my entire life. I know what instills it, what it destroys, and what is needed to make it go away. I value the path of least resistance, of minimal means for maximum results.

My failing is consistently in the direction of being "too nice". I am not strict enough about late assignments or such things because I tend to project a little of myself into the situation and assume there could be a compelling reason. It is also difficult for me to draw the arbitrary line. If one person presents a strongly convincing reason for veering off the "rules", the second person's reason is somewhat convincing, the next highly suspicious. At what point do I say "no"? I choose to err on the side of leniency because I find it a lesser fault than to be unfair as an arbitrary decision. I also fail in instilling a sense of authority for some people who expect a more dictatorial style. In some cases I don't receive the respect that others who are less skilled, but more dictatorial receive. Eventually people more often come around, but it takes a while for people to understand my fundamental approach of non-force.
 
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I have thought about power for years. I could probably write a book on all my thoughts on this, but I wouldn't do it, because it would bore me to tears. ;)

That need to have power, is one of the things that, to me, is true evil or sin (and remember, I'm not Christian). The need for power is why many criminals assault helpless people. Anyone, who is alone, on the top of the pyramid, will do good and bad actions that will affect everyone underneath it.

I hate hierarchies. I know they are, for some reason, necessary, but they are still wrong. My boss, as a human, is no better or worse than I am. I am no better or worse than the intern who works with us. The label that he is better than me and the President is better than all of us, is a fallacy. As humans, although we may not all be equal, we are all of equal value.

And no, humans are not equal, but are equal in the same way (paradox). Humans are unequal in intelligence, survival skills, creativity or emotion, but whatever our worst traits are, there is someone who is supreme at them. I don't know that one person should ever rule alone, but, on the other hand, like-minded people with the same backgrounds and experiences shouldn't rule with them either.

I agree with everything Anica said, the government, from the cities on up to the state's and country, are broken. Money has replaced the good intentions that set the laws in place.

Money is another paradox, real, but also imaginary. We have assigned value to a piece of paper, or metallic objects, that everyone must use. If currency were socks, I'd be rich and powerful too.

Do I want power?

I don't know. I have power. I am myself, power. I don't want power for my own sake, but I would like to fix what is broken. Not for myself, but for the many, many people hurting because of these broken systems. I wouldn't do it myself, I'd get a team of people whose goal would be simply, "Do the least actions for the most good. The most good, means helping people with basic life circumstances, without judgment!" But as you see, there would be problems with this as well- because even though the concept of good must be defined, it will still vary from person to person. Some people think that fast food is the enemy - I would consider that judgment.

The problem is that one answer really doesn't work for every person. And I wouldn't know how to fix that.

Like everyone else has said, I'd like to have societal power to start my own fantasy/sci fi book store, live in my house, and maybe help, in small ways, the patrons of my store. Enough power to be free - of rules that punish me and punish others around me, for not being at a certain place on the hierarchy of society.
 
"Power" can be defined as the ability to affect the world around us and as our choices can impact the world around us, to some extent we all have power. Authority on the other hand is the force that allows an individual decisions to affect fairly large groups of people, I suppose a specific class of power.The only legitimate purpose of authority is to aid the people around you, so I suppose some authority is a good thing should the intention be benevolent.

Authority does, however, posses several negative aspects, two of which are the possibility of being corrupted and the possibility that your decisions may inadvertently malign others. So while authority would be a good thing, I personally would not be fond of to much of it.
 
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hierarchy-bird-tree.jpg
 
Moxie said:
because even though the concept of good must be defined, it will still vary from person to person.
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An interesting observation. For me (and the way I experience things) this touches very closely on the broad concept of God....power that serves, but in both infinite diversity and with infinite personal closeness and infinite intimacy. It is a paradox that infinite power would, as a mode of primary expression, serve infinitely. But in my view, this service also "creates," and this out of infinite wisdom coupled again with closeness and intimacy. Yet this creative power is still wholly expressed through "service" so yes, it can be ingored, overlooked, and rejected. With service as a primary mode, control is out, even dominance is out. Perhaps we have superimposed our all too limited ideas of power upon God who we perceive (or are told) to be all-powerful. Ya can't do that because infinite power is not like finite...why would it be or even have to be?

This idea...again in my view and in relation to the season...is beautifully expressed in the mystery of Incarnation....divinity AND humanity coexisting together....Emmanuel: God With Us. It does have something to say...it is an episode that pulls the curtain back on some very core cosmic realities that have to do with power.
 
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From my point of view, power for power's sake is nothing I am vying for. Power enables you though to steer things in your direction in a larger scale. For an idealist like me power is then logically a great tool to incorporate things my way, the way I perceive is good for everyone involved. Power does not have to be visible, it doesn't need to exercise itself loudly. The ability to influence and change things in a larger scale is true power.
Now to the creepy part, how to use your power. I have done things that I am not proud of(breaking unwritten laws) but it was necessary to the big picture. In the end, everything turned out better than before(not as good as I had expected). I think that's why INFJ's make great dictators, the step from my breaking of unwritten laws to doing something worse is not far off if you think it is for the greater good.

Creepy right?
 
laurie said:
To me, power is responsibility.

It's having the power and responsibility to look after people and do what you think is right, but also knowing when to stop and leave people alone.
I would only want the power to show people where they're going wrong to help them, I would never want to be able to control people.

Ugh... sounds so cheesy....
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perfect. well said
 
I agree with your other thoughts, but
Vex said:
I think that's why INFJ's make great dictators, the step from my breaking of unwritten laws to doing something worse is not far off if you think it is for the greater good.
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I think INFJ could only be the hidden mind behind a great dictator, not the dictator himself. But usually while the INFJ is present, alive, and involved, things are alright.

More dangerous is when at the same hidden position is the INTJ, I think, because they are less empathetic, and could go towards something like eugenics for the better of the rest. (in their extreme, of course)

Naxx said:
Being on the path to wisdom and influence is like walking a tight rope between being a monster or a saint.
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Have no more rep today, wanted to give.

Power is the great division between ENFPs and INFJs. Each type has reasons to need power to help the world, but the methods are very different and can go against each other's principles of goodness. So they can become each other's worst enemies, when one of them is on the way to acquire power, because the other one sees any infidelity done there. These types are not really made to pursue power, it tortures them and brings their worst sides to the surface. Since they would like to see the ideal of each other, they would oppose such process. And could, on very rare occasions, even destroy one another.
 
perhaps we can all agree that although everyone deserves power over their own lives,
there are a chosen few who must maintain them as a whole and it's important there are people like these



i admit i am on a quest for power (@_@;
 
Enfp can be shy: I agree with you, should have elaborated more on my statement! As long as INFJs are healthy, they're too empathetic to do something totally evil:)
 
Vex, I'm glad! (:
gius said:
perhaps we can all agree that although everyone deserves power over their own lives,
there are a chosen few who must maintain them as a whole and it's important there are people like these
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I'm not entirely sure. I can see why nature shaped people in certain distributions among society, who to have the qualities for certain social responsibilities, however, nature did this in the course of a very long period that involved caves and fur. Things have changed a lot, and now these needs may exist without justified purpose; yet still generating it, self-justified.

Imagine if one is grown with the need to be a protector of people, and there isn't anything to protect them from, really. The need will force this one towards inventing the reason for the people to be protected; creating a monster with which to fight.

I've never seen this to happen to INFJs (it sounds more probable for ENFJs); the argument is only about power as such.
 
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