Did I get INFJ Door-slammed? What went wrong in this friendship? INFJs, please help me understand better.

[DreamStreet]

Hey All,
So I (M23 / ESFJ) suddenly out of nowhere experienced a friend breakup with an INFJ (F/22). I'll call this girl Elizabeth. It was quite shocking, and I am trying to figure out what happened exactly. For a matter of fact, I wanted to let you know that I am mildly autistic and sometimes do have trouble understanding social cues, and rarely ever even notice people's body language at all.

So a little bit of a background, I actually met Elizabeth at a one off conference in a neutral location that is thousands of miles away from where both of us used to live. We were randomly sitting next to each other in a session and had a lot of side chatters. Nothing super crazy, but just a lot of side talks during the session. Now I do want to admit, that I was romantically attracted to her. She was really pretty and also had such a nice personality from what I saw. That being said, I did not act on it or go for it, because I felt it would be creepy to do this too soon. She was sitting next to her best friend on the other side that we will call Sarah. She honestly came to the conference with a whole friend group, and I just went by myself. I did ask Elizabeth and Sarah if they'd be down to get lunch together and they said they had plans but perhaps dinner. I said sure, and THEY ASKED ME if I had instagram so we could keep in touch and coordinate dinner which I gave to them. We didn't end up getting dinner together that night as we both ended up being busy with our own things that were conference related, but I told them over instagram text that it was so nice to meet them and to feel free to keep in touch.

About a week after the conference, I texted the group chat with Elizabeth and Sarah to ask how they were doing and how they've been since the conference. I didn't get a response and kind of forgot about them after a while. Anyways, coincidentally, I was job hunting and trying to move to a different place in the country and started to get a lot of job offers in a city that was like 2500 miles away from me, and that was actually the city that Sarah and Elizabeth actually lived in. I forgot about it for a while, but 10 days later, Elizabeth actually responded to my text, apologizing for being late and saying she's a horrible texter, but wanted to make sure to get back to me. We had a little bit of an intimate conversation over text and discovered that Elizabeth and I both had a thing in common where in the past, we struggled with depression and both almost committed suicide and went to the hospital to get mentally evaluated. Both suicidal instances were before we met and knew each other, but it was a bond that we had in common. I also mentioned that I might be moving to their town as I got a few job offers there, and they both told me it would be so exciting to see me in their town. Sarah and Elisabeth are both involved in a non profit religious organization that ministers and invests in college students, as student leaders, and Sarah told me that I should really get connected and join their community organization if I end up moving.

Now I was still recovering from being suicidal myself for other reasons and was looking for a completely new friend group and support system. I think I got a little over-excited by the interactions with Sarah and Elizabeth, and maybe placed high / unreasonable expectations on a future relationship with them and their community, and exaggerated what they said in my mind a little bit. Again, I also had romantic feelings for Elizabeth and was hoping to maybe at least give a shot at dating her, but I WAS NOT expecting that that she would be interested in that. Anyway, I was getting a lot of job offers in their town, so I made the decision to relocate, but I have to admit that I think my romantic feelings for Elizabeth and hopes for a new community / friendships played a bigger part in my decision making than I even realized myself. Anyways, I didn't really talk to Elizabeth again before relocating, but I reached out to a guy in his late 20s who is the head of the organization / community that Sarah and Elizabeth are involved in. We'll call him Mike. I was asking Mike about getting involved as a volunteer, but he immediately told me that they already have too many volunteers right now and do not have the capacity to take on anymore. I then asked him about just attending events and participating in the community, but he said that it wasn't a good fit for me because the community is focused on ministering to college students and I just graduated so I'm a young professional, even though its only like a year age gap. Honestly this was extremely disappointing to me and made me kind of upset, but I was hoping maybe I could at least find a way to be partially involved when I get there, since Sarah recommended it. Not to mention, Mike never met me before, so I was a complete stranger to him when I reached out. Sarah recommended I reach out to him by the way and gave me his number, so it probably didn't come as a complete surprise to Mike, but I was definitely a stranger to him. Mike did say that there are plenty of other communities that he'd recommend I look into, but I honestly wasn't interested in any other community. He also recommended a few churches to attend as we are all religious people.

Anyways, so I relocate and arrive, and pick one of the churches that Mike recommended I check out to attend. Coincidentally the one I picked happens to be the church that Mike goes to and also the same church that Sarah and Elizabeth go to as well. I did not expect to see them, but I did, and it was an amazing surprise. So I see Elizabeth and it was a surprise for both of us and we talked quite a bit. We didn't talk for that long but it was nice to finally reconnect in person.

A few days later, Elizabeth reaches out to me randomly on instagram and tells me how she was thinking about me wanting to be invested in religious community, but the community that she serves in isn't best fit because it ministers to college students and I'm not in the same season of life. She is the INFJ and was so nice, and just said that my phase of life doesn't align and there's nothing wrong with that. She was asking around, trying to find good communities for me, and told me a couple friends of hers to get in touch with and people to get connected to to find community. All that to say, with me having feelings for Elizabeth, I freaked out that she texted me first and got really excited. I started to be very vulnerable with Elizabeth over text and told her that I'm a little different due to me having autism, and have a different perspective on communities. We decided to talk in person after church the next week so we can get a better understanding of each other. The talk I had with Elizabeth after church went so well, and I felt we already built a close bond. I was telling her that as well with other friends of hers, and she said that she thinks its great that I have connected with her and her friends, but warned me that they are very busy and highly invested in their community and do not have a lot of time, but they would be happy to see me from time to time and interact at church, etc. It felt like a very emotional close bond we created even though it was only the third time that Elizabeth and I hung out.

Shortly after that, there was a huge end of year event happening with their community, and I texted Mike asking if I can come. He told me No because it's made for college students, and there would be better ministries / communities for me to invest in. In all honesty, my main reason for wanting to be part of that community so badly was because of Elizabeth who I liked, Sarah, and a few other friends that they introduced me to. I wanted a deeper friendship with all of them. I think I was a little obsessive about wanting them to be my primary friends, etc. Anyways, I did not see Elizabeth for a while as she was traveling a bunch. However, about a month later, I finally saw Elizabeth again at church and asked if I could sit with her and her friends. She was like: "Of Course, you are always welcome." in a very genuine way, so I was pretty sure she was serious.

After that day, Elizabeth, and I set up a time to hangout outside of church along with a 55 year old lady that she introduced me to to get connected here. I also asked again about attending another community event, and I think Elizabeth kind of felt that my desire for wanting to be involved in their community was starting to get a little obsessive, but said No in a very nice way, and I respected that. Anyways so the three of us hung out and it was so meaningful and deep, and it was one of the most enjoyable times of my life. I was going to ask Elizabeth out soon, but wasn't sure of her interest. She was often slightly flirtatious at church, etc, but she is a very touchy feely / affectionate person in general with everyone, and I did NOT feel like her being flirtatious was unique to me only. I heard that INFJ's can be like this as well. When the three of us hung out, she was talking about her ex and how she broke up because she wants to be single for the near future. Not necessarily forever, but she said for now, she wants to stay single and not have the distraction of a relationship. Therefore, I made my decision to NOT ask her out, and completely let go of the idea of dating her. It was hard, but I thought I'll try to just be content with a good friendship, and I really loved the way the friendship was going.

Anyways, because things were feeling so good with Elizabeth and other friends that she introduced me to, my desire for really wanting to be part of her ministry / community kept growing and growing, because I really just wanted more time with those people. I was honestly chasing all the time I could get with those people because they were amazing. A week later, Elizabeth and I talked on the phone, and I admitted to her that I have been very hurt by Mike's decision and the whole thing about them saying No to me being part of the community, etc. Elizabeth was very understanding, and really heard me out but encouraged me not to take it personally and to try and find other friends and another community to be invested in as well even though it might be difficult. I then thought of a crazy loophole. My idea was to take 1-2 classes at the university with a non-degree seeking major so I can become a college student and be part of their community. I proposed this idea to Elizabeth, Mike, and other friends she introduced me to. Elizabeth told me this: "Honestly, I am really worried about you, because I think your idea of this whole community has started to become very unhealthy, and its likely not everything you expect it to be. I am worried about your obsession with being involved in our community so much. I want you to really think about this and evaluate the way you are thinking here." She was very kind, but I gotta admit, I think it was starting to get old and really obsessive about wanting to be part of their community / ministry.

A few weeks later, Mike told me that I was making Elizabeth and quite a few other people very uncomfortable with my persistence in regards to the community and being kind of an overbearing friend when they are quite busy. Mike himself even said that he was starting to get uncomfortable with my desire to join the community / ministry and it was just getting old and out of hand. He also was really weirded out and concerned when I talked about the loophole of taking 1-2 college classes with the main purpose of being involved in the ministry. He basically was like: "What's going on? Why do you want to be part of this ministry so badly when it's not a good fit for your season of life?"

Anyways, Elizabeth wrote me a text shortly after that it made her uncomfortable with the way that I persisted about wanting to join her ministry, and a deepening friendship with her one on one. The ministry didn't surprise me, but the deepening friendship really did, because I felt she initiated a lot of that? Unless she was referring to being obsessive about being very close to her by trying to join the ministry, or she might've caught onto me having feelings for her. Before then, I never felt that there was any rejection or even any cues I can think of to my advances with her as a friend. Maybe I was going too fast or rather "coming on too strong" and not being very natural?

Elizabeth set some stricter boundaries after that and she said that she doesn't want me texting her, calling her, or sitting with her at church, but she'd be happy to say Hi and have a short conversation anytime we run into each other and see each other.

Anyways was this an INFJ door slam? I was really shocked by this. Do you think I might ever have a chance of reconciliation with Elizabeth? After she sent me that text, I completely ghosted her and haven't seen her since, and was kind of intentionally trying to avoid her a little bit. I think she might've felt smothered and needs space, so I don't plan to do anything at the moment, but do you think there might be any chance of reconciliation in about a year or so? Or did I get completely doorslammed. INFJ's please help me understand the situation better.

Also on another note, I plan on relocating again to a different area within the next few months, so if we do reconcile, it'll be a long distance friendship, but it would still mean a lot to me.

So what did I do that really pissed off Elizabeth? She always seemed so kind, and I don't believe I took advantage of her or anything. I would often try to help her and even ask her about her life and how she's doing, and she'd answer very sincerely. Did I break her trust or something? Or did she maybe catch on that I had feelings for her and wanted some distance because of that?

P.S. It wasn't just Elizabeth, but I think my obsession with getting involved in the specific ministry / community was making quite a few other leaders in the ministry uncomfortable being friends with me. I still don't get how that in itself could cause issues in a personal friendship though. Also I never actually attended any events or tried anything, these were just ideas I was trying to propose. I might've been pushy about the ministry though.

 

[John K]

Hi DreamStreet and welcome to the forum.

Some thoughts to ponder ....

I'm afraid that the way you have been acting will have come across as weird, not just to your lady friend, but to the people who are leaders of her community. From what you have said, the main reason you wanted to join them was to be closer to her, rather than because you shared their mission and the objectives that they stand for. Intuitive feeling types pick up on inauthenticity pretty quickly, and it sounds like she's given you the benefit of the doubt, then later on tried to let you down gently. Mike, their leader, will have been quite concerned about your persistence - bear in mind that, since the community has a pastoral role, he will have a duty of care both to the team and to the people they serve. They probably deal with quite vulnerable people, students away from home and needing emotional and spiritual support, and would not want any complications from other folks.

I think perhaps you should have been more direct with Elizabeth soon after you moved cities, and asked her out rather than being so oblique about it. She might have said yes, or not, but the outcome would have been a clean one that might well have left you with a friendship if not a relationship.

From what you have said, I don't think this is just a straight INFJ door-slam - it sounds more like you have set off alarm bells in her community as much as with her.

 

[Asa]

Hello and welcome, Dream Street.

There are many signs that this group of people did not want to include you from the beginning, starting when the two women failed to respond to your Instagram message. I don't know why Elizabeth continued to communicate with you and lead you on after that – whether she liked the attention, or whether she genuinely liked you as a friend, but IF she did genuinely like you, she was pressured by her community to end the friendship (perhaps because Sarah and Mike didn't like you).

It seems like Elizabeth has poor communication skills and poor boundaries. She gave you mixed signals from the beginning and kept simultaneously inviting you into her life and rejecting you without being clear. She communicated concerns about you to Mike (or perhaps Sarah communicated to Mike on Elizabeth's behalf) because he acted as a shield and rejected you all along. He was the one who communicated that you make Elizabeth uncomfortable. She lacked the communication skills and boundaries to do it herself.

This trio of people weren't healthy for you. They don't understand neurodivergent communication needs, they gave you mixed signals, and they have poor boundaries and communication skills. I'm relieved that you're free of them, to be honest, and can go forward to meet more genuine and inclusive people.

I want to point out, also, that trauma bonding (over depression and attempted suicide) is not the healthiest foundation for a romance. Yes, friends who are therapeutic to talk to about shared traumas are valuable, but it isn't good for this to be the main thing that forms friendships. She also hinted that she didn't want a relationship with you when she mentioned her ex, but lacked the backbone to be clear with you about her expectations and needs for your friendship (or whether she wanted a friendship at all.)

It doesn't seem like it was a doorslam, exactly, nor is this warm/cold behavior specific to INFJs. They tried to keep giving you hints that they didn't want you around, but because Elizabeth kept acting warm and inviting, too, you didn't catch on. This group has many red flags and you're far better off without them.

All of this said, because you didn't catch the confusing and passive hints to leave them alone and seek friendships elsewhere, your persistence was interpreted as a red flag --- creepy, pushy, or alarming. In your defense, they should have been clear with you from the start, and especially after you told Elizabeth you are autistic. In the future, try to study neurotypical behavior a little more, and learn what those weird mixed signals and icy hints mean. If someone isn't inclusive and enthusiastic about including you, or keeps hinting they don't want you to be part of theur community, find new friends. Passive-aggressive behavior can be very confusing and frustrating. If you suspect anyone is doin to this in the future, maybe you should be direct and ask them, or explain that autistic people prefer direct communication.

 

[DreamStreet]

Hi DreamStreet and welcome to the forum.

Some thoughts to ponder ....

I'm afraid that the way you have been acting will have come across as weird, not just to your lady friend, but to the people who are leaders of her community. From what you have said, the main reason you wanted to join them was to be closer to her, rather than because you shared their mission and the objectives that they stand for. Intuitive feeling types pick up on inauthenticity pretty quickly, and it sounds like she's given you the benefit of the doubt, then later on tried to let you down gently. Mike, their leader, will have been quite concerned about your persistence - bear in mind that, since the community has a pastoral role, he will have a duty of care both to the team and to the people they serve. They probably deal with quite vulnerable people, students away from home and needing emotional and spiritual support, and would not want any complications from other folks.

I think perhaps you should have been more direct with Elizabeth soon after you moved cities, and asked her out rather than being so oblique about it. She might have said yes, or not, but the outcome would have been a clean one that might well have left you with a friendship if not a relationship.

From what you have said, I don't think this is just a straight INFJ door-slam - it sounds more like you have set off alarm bells in her community as much as with her.

Understood! I honestly like your answer, and I think you have a good read on the situation. I know I left this out of my original post, but I actually did share the same mission and objectives of the ministry and what they stand for, which is another reason I wanted to join. In fact, I am in the application process of doing long term missions with the big organization that they are part of but that is a process. They recommended I look in the community in that specific location, but the organization itself is so big, and every community on different college campuses kind of has their own leaders and culture, and there's not much connect between different communities. So I definitely did share the values and really wanted to join that ministry. However, the difference is, if I did not have those feelings or like Elizabeth so much, it would've been a lot easier for me to accept their decision when they said No, and I would've much easily found another place to serve and do ministry. My persistence and huge desire was definitely because of me wanting to get close to Elizabeth and also a few of her friends. Not to mention, I wanted to be close to Mike as well, but Elizabeth was the main friendship I cared so much for because I like her romantically, LOL.

As for being more direct with Elizabeth, I don't think it would've been wise for me to ask her out right away. We only met once before then, and I always heard that you should talk a little bit and get to know a girl naturally before asking her out. They say don't wait too long, but if you ask a girl out that you barely know or only had one encounter with, it can come off as creepy from what I've heard. Honestly, I was getting ready to make the move and ask her out as I felt it was the right time, but right before I was able to do that, she told me she wasn't open to a relationship, so why would I ask her out if she clearly says she wants to be single and mentioned thats why she broke up with her ex?

However, one thing I do think I could've done better was be more direct about the kind of friendship I wanted from her after we hung out outside of church the first time, and discussed clear boundaries. I think that might've been a smart thing to do, and I did not do that. I did tell her I appreciated her friendship a lot, but we didn't have a clear conversation about expectations and boundaries.

But yeah, I do think Mike was very concerned about my persistence, and so was Elizabeth, and all the leaders there I am pretty sure about. And you are absolutely right that they do deal with a lot of those people with students away from home, etc. It is very true.

I think you're likely right that I set off alarm bells with her and the community. Anyways, do you have any advice on how I can repair my relationship with Elizabeth? I'm not too concerned about the others because I didn't know them as well, and I didn't feel we had a special bond, but I would at least like to really repair with Elizabeth, who is the INFJ, because she was so precious and special to me, even if it might be long distance. I left this out of my original post, but the only reason why Elizabeth even sent me that text about me making her uncomfortable is because Mike told me that he would tell all the ladies that mentioned I was making them uncomfortable to be very direct with me and tell me exactly what they want. Mike told them to be blunt and direct with me. Mike and I are still on speaking terms, but he told me that he doesn't feel super comfortable pursuing a friendship with me outside of just when we naturally see each other, but he's happy to have conversations and talk when we are naturally together at church or in common group settings. He said that he doesn't really have the capacity for anything more than that anyways. All that to say, I think it's best if I give all those people space right now, but do you think in like a year's time, I might have a chance to reconcile with Elizabeth?

 

[DreamStreet]

Hello and welcome, Dream Street.

There are many signs that this group of people did not want to include you from the beginning, starting when the two women failed to respond to your Instagram message. I don't know why Elizabeth continued to communicate with you and lead you on after that – whether she liked the attention, or whether she genuinely liked you as a friend, but IF she did genuinely like you, she was pressured by her community to end the friendship (perhaps because Sarah and Mike didn't like you).

It seems like Elizabeth has poor communication skills and poor boundaries. She gave you mixed signals from the beginning and kept simultaneously inviting you into her life and rejecting you without being clear. She communicated concerns about you to Mike (or perhaps Sarah communicated to Mike on Elizabeth's behalf) because he acted as a shield and rejected you all along. He was the one who communicated that you make Elizabeth uncomfortable. She lacked the communication skills and boundaries to do it herself.

This trio of people weren't healthy for you. They don't understand neurodivergent communication needs, they gave you mixed signals, and they have poor boundaries and communication skills. I'm relieved that you're free of them, to be honest, and can go forward to meet more genuine and inclusive people.

I want to point out, also, that trauma bonding (over depression and attempted suicide) is not the healthiest foundation for a romance. Yes, friends who are therapeutic to talk to about shared traumas are valuable, but it isn't good for this to be the main thing that forms friendships. She also hinted that she didn't want a relationship with you when she mentioned her ex, but lacked the backbone to be clear with you about her expectations and needs for your friendship (or whether she wanted a friendship at all.)

It doesn't seem like it was a doorslam, exactly, nor is this warm/cold behavior specific to INFJs. They tried to keep giving you hints that they didn't want you around, but because Elizabeth kept acting warm and inviting, too, you didn't catch on. This group has many red flags and you're far better off without them.

All of this said, because you didn't catch the confusing and passive hints to leave them alone and seek friendships elsewhere, your persistence was interpreted as a red flag --- creepy, pushy, or alarming. In your defense, they should have been clear with you from the start, and especially after you told Elizabeth you are autistic. In the future, try to study neurotypical behavior a little more, and learn what those weird mixed signals and icy hints mean. If someone isn't inclusive and enthusiastic about including you, or keeps hinting they don't want you to be part of theur community, find new friends. Passive-aggressive behavior can be very confusing and frustrating. If you suspect anyone is doin to this in the future, maybe you should be direct and ask them, or explain that autistic people prefer direct communication.

Makes sense. A few things I do want to add that I think I left out in my original post. First of all, Sarah actually was the very first person to invite me to participate in the community, but I think she might've done that without really knowing me well or my situation. She might've not known that I graduated and were not a college student anymore. I didn't talk much with Sarah, and that was all before I moved. After I moved, I had a few exchanges with Sarah, but I didn't talk to her much, because she has been out of state for the summer, and really was away from most of the situation. To be honest, I do not believe that Sarah is even aware of all that has been going on because she has been out of state, and she DEFINITELY DID NOT TALK on Elizabeth's behalf at all. And what do you mean by failing to respond to my instagram message? Both Sarah and Elizabeth responded but just like 10 days later. To them at that time, I was only a new acquaintance and they had busy lives, so I don't think the length of time they took to respond was any hint at all, and that was even before I told them my plan to move to their town. I think we can leave Sarah out of the picture mostly because she really has been more distant from the situation, and I only communicated with her briefly like 3 times for a few seconds since I moved. She's been away back at home for the summer.

Also I do not believe that Mike did not like me as a person. Their decision to say No to me for the community was nothing personal, and it was mainly because of they have way too many staff and I wasn't a college student anymore so I was technically ineligible to be part of their community. Mike and I also had some interactions at church, and we did a whole church service project together once, and he was always very warm to me. He even gave me a ride across town and dropped me off somewhere. I highly doubt that Mike disliked me as a person, but he just didn't want me in their ministry to at ministry exclusive events. He and I are still actually on speaking terms. Mike was always very blunt and honest with me, but he was never rude and always said things in a warm tone, and was very nice. He also knew I had autism, as I told him early on.

One other thing that I did not mention in the original post, is my first day after I moved, I also met two other girls that we will call Jennifer and Rebecca. They were also leaders in that community a very good friends of Sarah and Elizabeth. Rebecca prayed for me my first day, when I was telling her a bit of my life story. Jennifer was also friendly with me. I did get to know both Jennifer and Rebecca overtime and had some great interactions with them at church and they also occasionally came to the young adult group at church as well which I attend weekly, so we had some interactions there. Now Rebecca is the type of girl that is very sweet and likes to be inclusive of everybody. Probably one of the most popular girls in the ministry / community. I think she really struggled a lot to be honest with me and because I wasn't as close with her, I didn't mention me being autistic at all to her. I think I did mention it to Jennifer once though. The only reason I pursued a friendship with Rebecca is because she was very nice and sweet to me and I was honored that she prayed for me my first day as it meant a lot.

To be honest, Rebecca even invited me to ministry / community events but I believe she was not sincere in her invites. I never came anyways because Mike said No. Both Jennifer and Rebecca also told Mike that I was making them very uncomfortable around the same time Elizabeth told him. After Mike told Jennifer, Rebecca, and Elizabeth to text me what they exactly want, both Rebecca and Jennifer actually admitted to misleading me and encouraging a friendship in ways that were not helpful. When Rebecca sent me the text, it sounded like she was so nervous and didn't want to really send the text and only did it because Mike told her to. The other thing is Jennifer and Rebecca agreed to do a hike with me before church one day, the three of us when I think they were not very uncomfortable with that, and they admitted in the texts that they had to cancel the hike and apologized for agreeing to do the hike with me. Honestly, all I can say is Jennifer and Rebecca's behavior towards me felt extremely immature, and very weird. I don't think I ever even got mixed signals from them that they didn't actually enjoy me. Jennifer maybe, because I would often approach her, but it would always be me initiating contact, but she never seemed cold or anything. Rebecca definitely was an ABSOLUTE MESS when it came to signals.

I cannot be sure about Elizabeth, but from what it sounded like, I do think she genuinely did like me and enjoyed being my friend. She NEVER invited me to ministry / community exclusive events but always invited me to sit with her at church and we hung out outside of that. She even was very intentional in introducing me to a few other people in the town. Again, I do not know for sure, but I think Elizabeth originally liked being my friend, but I think my persistence about the community, and maybe me indirectly pushing too hard for a deeper friendship set off alarm bells and was a turn off for her? I never complained or anything, but I did express desire multiple times to be closer to her, and Elizabeth did warn me about her time multiple times and said that she is a busy girl and is already spread very thin with responsibilities, so she does not have a lot of time for me, but would appreciate seeing me occasionally. I am afraid my persistence and going at her maybe too strongly turned her off and raised alarm bells. Do you think that might be a possibility? Unlike Rebecca and Jennifer, Elizabeth did not say that she made a mistake to encourage a friendship at all, but more so she was touching on a very deep friendship, and my persistence about the ministry / community made her very uncomfortable.

Do you have any other thoughts after knowing these details? Do you think there might be a chance of reconciliation with Elizabeth after a year maybe, as an INFJ? I don't care so much about the others, but I really want to fix things with Elizabeth. I understand it will likely not be a super deep or close friendship, but by that time I likely won't be in the same area anymore, and it'll likely be more of just talking on the phone and catching occasionally, and seeing each other if we're ever in each other's town.

 

[DreamStreet]

Honestly, I don’t think any of these people really disliked me, or had anything against me. But I think it’s more about them being very busy and committed to being friends with the students in their ministry and they just don’t have the time or capacity to give me the kind of friendship that I need, and me chasing a deeper friendship with them, and also persisting to try and join a community that wasn’t made for investing in people my age or season of life, just made them very uncomfortable, and gave them the impression that they were leading me on and/or making themselves too available to me, which resulted in me getting attached to them in ways that made them very uncomfortable.

Remember as an autistic person, it doesn’t take nearly as much for me to get really attached to a person as it does for the average neurotypical person, and I can often feel the type of “best friend attachment” within 3-4 times of interacting with someone if the vibe feels really good.

 

[John K]

All that to say, I think it's best if I give all those people space right now, but do you think in like a year's time, I might have a chance to reconcile with Elizabeth?

I think it's a very good idea to give them space. Joining a different ministry team is a great idea because it will give you an anchor in your new city and you can build a circle of friends that way who will value you for who you are. More than that, it will give you credibility, show that you are serious about ministry and show that you can be successful within it. In most cities, these groups are all connected, at least in terms of being aware of each other and sharing the same places of worship, and it may establish your credentials with Elizabeth and her circle in the long run. It would give them a chance to mature a bit as well - the girls all sound very young, as @Asa says.

I wonder as well .... (I'm no expert though, so this is just a thought.)
Autism appears in many different ways, and in some folks it is obvious immediately from the way they interact with me. For example it can be very literal - I use a lot of metaphor in the way I express myself and someone well up the spectrum can take me literally so I know immediately what's going on. With others, though - and perhaps this is more like where you are - it can be much more subtle. People will then pick up on subliminal differences in the way you interact with them, but they won't be sure quite what and can misunderstand you. What may really help is if you could have a close friend, or a mentor, who gets to know you well and could help you understand how to recognise where and how this is happening. Once you are more aware, it gives you a chance to change the ways you come across to others, or at least explain it to them. Again, being part of a pastoral group is a great way of finding such support.

I hope you find some roots, and a good circle of friends in your new town DreamStreet - God Bless!

 

[Asa]

Honestly, I don’t think any of these people really disliked me, or had anything against me. But I think it’s more about them being very busy and committed to being friends with the students in their ministry and they just don’t have the time or capacity to give me the kind of friendship that I need, and me chasing a deeper friendship with them, and also persisting to try and join a community that wasn’t made for investing in people my age or season of life, just made them very uncomfortable, and gave them the impression that they were leading me on and/or making themselves too available to me, which resulted in me getting attached to them in ways that made them very uncomfortable.

Yes, I could be off in my assessment but this is a common pattern of behavior with women and I know it well.
Even if they did enjoy your company, your persistence seems to have been interpreted as a red flag.

Remember as an autistic person, it doesn’t take nearly as much for me to get really attached to a person as it does for the average neurotypical person, and I can often feel the type of “best friend attachment” within 3-4 times of interacting with someone if the vibe feels really good.

I understand that, but blanket statements are also unfair because a lot of neurodivergent people don't form bonds easily at all.
It sounds like you formed a hyperfixation.

John's advice to find a different group of friends and a different church community is wise. His advice to find a mentor is also good.

 

[DreamStreet]

Yes, I could be off in my assessment but this is a common pattern of behavior with women and I know it well.
Even if they did enjoy your company, your persistence seems to have been interpreted as a red flag.



I understand that, but blanket statements are also unfair because a lot of neurodivergent people don't form bonds easily at all.
It sounds like you formed a hyperfixation.

John's advice to find a different group of friends and a different church community is wise. His advice to find a mentor is also good.

Wait a second, what exactly is a common pattern of behavior in women? Can you explain? I don’t think I knew exactly “what you’re talking about” is a common pattern in women! I’d like to know.

And absolutely, I still think it was very unfair with the way it was handled, and we should’ve tried to talk and compromise about attachments, etc, and that I don’t form bonds easily. To be honest, Mike and Elizabeth are the only ones that I feel handled things maturely, and even Elizabeth was so so. The rest were just clearly all over the place and I’m just done with them at least for the near future. I will say this: “never say never” because people can change.

 

[Asa]

Wait a second, what exactly is a common pattern of behavior in women? Can you explain? I don’t think I knew exactly “what you’re talking about” is a common pattern in women! I’d like to know.

It's a pattern of behavior where women act nice and inviting with men even though they don't want to include the man in their lives. There are numerous reasons for this.

Some women act passive, nice, indirect, and inviting with men by default. Using a male friend, family member, or boss to communicate boundaries to the other man is common. In this case, the man is supposed to pick up on hints that she isn't interested. It's a non-confrontational behavior pattern that is taught or adopted by those who don't feel confident being direct.

Many women are naturally non-confrontational, so they have trouble being direct when a (male) friendship grows more intense than they intended. As the situation worsens, they may have a male friend step in to communicate with the man that he needs to give the woman space (or get lost). Being direct is something many people need to grow into, especially women.

Sometimes women act this way because they like the attention even though they don't intend to follow through. I think this is the least common reason women behave this way, but it happens.

The most common reason women act nice to strange men is that the man in question makes the woman feel unsafe. If this were the case with you, she would not have offered her personal contact info. I don't think your friendship started this way. However, it is possible that your persistence caused them to believe you were unsafe later on. In this case, a man sometimes steps in to communicate, too.

And absolutely, I still think it was very unfair with the way it was handled, and we should’ve tried to talk and compromise about attachments, etc, and that I don’t form bonds easily. To be honest, Mike and Elizabeth are the only ones that I feel handled things maturely, and even Elizabeth was so so. The rest were just clearly all over the place and I’m just done with them at least for the near future. I will say this: “never say never” because people can change.

No matter your intentions, all you can do when people set boundaries is obey them. They said, "No." It is best for you to forget about them and find a genuine community that accepts you as a person and accepts your communication needs.

I don't think Elizabeth handled this maturely. If she had, this confusion would have never happened.

Yes, it was unfair, especially when you were open about your autism, and they failed to change their communication style.

 

[DreamStreet]

It's a pattern of behavior where women act nice and inviting with men even though they don't want to include the man in their lives. There are numerous reasons for this.

Some women act passive, nice, indirect, and inviting with men by default. Using a male friend, family member, or boss to communicate boundaries to the other man is common. In this case, the man is supposed to pick up on hints that she isn't interested. It's a non-confrontational behavior pattern that is taught or adopted by those who don't feel confident being direct.

Many women are naturally non-confrontational, so they have trouble being direct when a (male) friendship grows more intense than they intended. As the situation worsens, they may have a male friend step in to communicate with the man that he needs to give the woman space (or get lost). Being direct is something many people need to grow into, especially women.

Sometimes women act this way because they like the attention even though they don't intend to follow through. I think this is the least common reason women behave this way, but it happens.

The most common reason women act nice to strange men is that the man in question makes the woman feel unsafe. If this were the case with you, she would not have offered her personal contact info. I don't think your friendship started this way. However, it is possible that your persistence caused them to believe you were unsafe later on. In this case, a man sometimes steps in to communicate, too.

Totally understand, I think in my case, it was most likely either the first or second scenario that you mentioned. Very likely the second with Elizabeth.

Yeah, I highly doubt they felt unsafe around me in the beginning, because I definitely would not have had their numbers, and I do NOT believe that they would've agreed to hangout with me outside of natural settings this way, especially when we set this up over text. I think they likely would've ghosted me over text if they felt unsafe. Maybe my persistence raised some flags and made them wonder if I am safe though; that's a possibility, but I think the best way to prove I'm safe is to just respect their boundaries. Anything other than that will cause them more doubts.

Actually, the most likely scenario is the first for Meredith and Jennifer, and likely the second for Elizabeth.

 

[DreamStreet]

It's a pattern of behavior where women act nice and inviting with men even though they don't want to include the man in their lives. There are numerous reasons for this.

Some women act passive, nice, indirect, and inviting with men by default. Using a male friend, family member, or boss to communicate boundaries to the other man is common. In this case, the man is supposed to pick up on hints that she isn't interested. It's a non-confrontational behavior pattern that is taught or adopted by those who don't feel confident being direct.

Many women are naturally non-confrontational, so they have trouble being direct when a (male) friendship grows more intense than they intended. As the situation worsens, they may have a male friend step in to communicate with the man that he needs to give the woman space (or get lost). Being direct is something many people need to grow into, especially women.

Sometimes women act this way because they like the attention even though they don't intend to follow through. I think this is the least common reason women behave this way, but it happens.

The most common reason women act nice to strange men is that the man in question makes the woman feel unsafe. If this were the case with you, she would not have offered her personal contact info. I don't think your friendship started this way. However, it is possible that your persistence caused them to believe you were unsafe later on. In this case, a man sometimes steps in to communicate, too.



No matter your intentions, all you can do when people set boundaries is obey them. They said, "No." It is best for you to forget about them and find a genuine community that accepts you as a person and accepts your communication needs.

I don't think Elizabeth handled this maturely. If she had, this confusion would have never happened.

Yes, it was unfair, especially when you were open about your autism, and they failed to change their communication style.

Also, when Mike was talking to me, he told me that he didn’t like the way all those girls handled everything and told me that they should’ve been direct with me. He flat out told me that he’s not going to be the middle man, and what he was telling me was his advice, but he did say that he would tell all those girls to text me exactly what they want when it comes to boundaries. He was quite pissed with the way the girls handled everything. And the only reason he even stepped in was because he saw that the situation was heading in a bad direction and he wanted to protect both the girls and me and didn’t want to see it get any worse.

Also, would you agree that if a women felt unsafe, she wouldn’t have directly reached out to me over text and asked me personal questions or have a very personal conversation about community, etc? Especially when that was completely a text she initiated. I didn’t text first. I have a hard time believing a women would text a man first if she felt unsafe with him, unless it was to set a clear boundary.

 

[Asa]

Yeah, I highly doubt they felt unsafe around me in the beginning, because I definitely would not have had their numbers, and I do NOT believe that they would've agreed to hangout with me outside of natural settings this way, especially when we set this up over text. I think they likely would've ghosted me over text if they felt unsafe. Maybe my persistence raised some flags and made them wonder if I am safe though; that's a possibility, but I think the best way to prove I'm safe is to just respect their boundaries. Anything other than that will cause them more doubts.

I agree.

Also, when Mike was talking to me, he told me that he didn’t like the way all those girls handled everything and told me that they should’ve been direct with me. He flat out told me that he’s not going to be the middle man, and what he was telling me was his advice, but he did say that he would tell all those girls to text me exactly what they want when it comes to boundaries. He was quite pissed with the way the girls handled everything. And the only reason he even stepped in was because he saw that the situation was heading in a bad direction and he wanted to protect both the girls and me and didn’t want to see it get any worse.

Ahhh, this makes a lot of sense.


It's also a really good idea to study what causes you to hyperfixate on people, learn to avoid those patterns, and learn how to stop your hyperfixation. You should learn how to discern genuine bonding that has the potential to last from what hyperfixation feels like for you.

Callum Steven (Autistic Callum) posts about the differences between love and hyperfixation on Twitter (and likely Facebook, too.)
Hyperfixation places dopamine before genuine, calmer feelings, usurps our lives, and causes us to make our whole lives about the person/people we are focusing on. It is dramatic. Callum says, "Love feels like home, but hyperfixation feels like a theme park." Hyperfixation is irrational.

Another person commented (on the above quote by Callum) that, "Love found him, but hyperfixation was something he chose."

Love and genuine friendship feels accepting, warm, safe, full of trust, and steady. It can be exciting and fun, but steady and grows deeper the longer you know the person. You shouldn't have to chase genuine love and friendship. It's mutual.

 

[Asa]

Wow, Asa! So much wisdom in what you've shared here (for me).
I'm a 50-year-old woman and, though I've never been diagnosed with Autism, all of the oddities of my whole life experience can be very well explained by it.
And now, you just described me in pretty much every new relationship I've encountered throughout my life.
Time to find Callum Steven too! Thank you! Amazing. (and it of course it also sucks pretty bad to only just now be clued in to this)

Definitely find Callum Steven aka "Autistic Callum." The Aspie World on Youtube also covers autism in women and girls well and one of their videos includes a link for a test that includes traits more females with ASD have. There is also a list of traits for Aspie Women by Tania Marshall.

 

[DreamStreet]

INFJ’s, is it typical for an INFJ to feel very guilty and struggle with their feelings after presumably ending a friendship with someone?

I just realized that very recently, Elizabeth blocked me on Spotify. It seems pretty weird to me because she didn’t block me anywhere else on any other social media platform, and Spotify is not really a place to chat or interact with people.

First of all, what made her think of me in the first place? I haven’t been in communication with her at all for almost a month, and haven’t even seen her in person. Nor have I even really talked to any of her friends or any of these other people involved. I saw Meredith and Jennifer from a distance since all this happened but we didn’t interact at all. The only person I’ve interacted with since all this happened is Mike, and only to say hello in passing; we didn’t really chat or anything.

So anyways, what made Elizabeth think of me? I’d assume since she wanted to end the friendship, she likely didn’t see me as much of a friend in the first place, so I’d be surprised if she’s been thinking of me at all.

INFJ’s please help me understand this. Do you think this girl is likely thinking of me randomly? I read somewhere that INFJs do tend to have deeper emotions and process them a lot. I wonder if the situation made her feel very guilty and depressed? I’d be very surprised though, because I guess she didn’t see me as much of a friend if she was ready to shutdown the friendship. Any thoughts here? Seriously, what is going on?

 

[DreamStreet]

One thing that does come to mind is that while I didn’t communicate this to any of these people, shortly after the situation happened, I made a social media post about moving to a different area within the next few months. If an INFJ like Elizabeth felt that it was because she hurt me that I planned to move away, do you think that could’ve put a lot of guilt in her?

And I will be honest, I did tell a number of church people in general that while this wasn’t the only reason, it was a huge contribution to my decision to move to a new area. Nobody close to her and I didn’t mention names of anyone, but the word can definitely get around.

 

[John K]

@DreamStreet

I don't think you should agonise over this too much. It would be best to move on in your life and forget these folks if you can. Moving to a different district is a good idea, as is avoiding peeking at Elizabeth's social media postings too.

Every MBTI type has it's own problems, and INFJs are no exception to this. It's in our nature to give positive vibes to folks, particularly ones we don't know very well, and we try and help out people who have difficulties - but this often gets us in deeper than we anticipated. People sometimes (consciously or unconsciously) project their deepest needs onto us, and it can be quite an unanticipated burden. Now this is true for all of us, but it is especially difficult for some young and attractive female INFJ people because all sorts of folks of both genders are drawn to them and they have problems learning how to manage their boundaries properly. All INFJs have difficulty managing boundaries at some point in their lives - I'm neither young, female or attractive but I still occasionally get myself in too deep helping folks out and find that I have taken on something I didn't intend. The problem is that once we have got involved beyond what we intended, it takes more skill than most of us are born with to pull out without hurting the other person, particularly when we are young. Probably most of us INFJs replay regrets of this sort for decades into the future.

I'm afraid it's speculation that this is what has happened with Elizabeth, but it has the feel of someone who got herself into something she didn't intend or anticipate. It's something that she'll have to sort out for herself, as all INFJs have to do in early adulthood, and it's why I think you shouldn't agonise over it too much - but also why I think it's best if you move on.

 

[DreamStreet]

@DreamStreet

I don't think you should agonise over this too much. It would be best to move on in your life and forget these folks if you can. Moving to a different district is a good idea, as is avoiding peeking at Elizabeth's social media postings too.

Every MBTI type has it's own problems, and INFJs are no exception to this. It's in our nature to give positive vibes to folks, particularly ones we don't know very well, and we try and help out people who have difficulties - but this often gets us in deeper than we anticipated. People sometimes (consciously or unconsciously) project their deepest needs onto us, and it can be quite an unanticipated burden. Now this is true for all of us, but it is especially difficult for some young and attractive female INFJ people because all sorts of folks of both genders are drawn to them and they have problems learning how to manage their boundaries properly. All INFJs have difficulty managing boundaries at some point in their lives - I'm neither young, female or attractive but I still occasionally get myself in too deep helping folks out and find that I have taken on something I didn't intend. The problem is that once we have got involved beyond what we intended, it takes more skill than most of us are born with to pull out without hurting the other person, particularly when we are young. Probably most of us INFJs replay regrets of this sort for decades into the future.

I'm afraid it's speculation that this is what has happened with Elizabeth, but it has the feel of someone who got herself into something she didn't intend or anticipate. It's something that she'll have to sort out for herself, as all INFJs have to do in early adulthood, and it's why I think you shouldn't agonise over it too much - but also why I think it's best if you move on.

I understand, but it's easier said than done. And we cannot forget that I do have feelings for Elizabeth, so it's not easy to just move on like that. I mean I am trying to, but for me sometimes I really need time to evaluate situations before moving on to learn from them. It's not in my nature to just forget about things. This is a little off topic, but a year ago, I spent almost 6 months trying to figure out a situation where another girl that I'll call Alyssa ended a friendship with me that was extremely devastating. I'm not sure if Alyssa was an INFJ or not; I HIGHLY DOUBT IT. Alyssa and I were not close, but I wanted a closer friendship with her, and she seemed sweet and also very smart. Might've honestly been the same kind of things, but my point is, it takes me time, and I can't just forget things. I need time to analyze the situation.

One of the things I do want to ask you though as an INFJ, and this is probably valid for anyone actually, is why is a deeper friendship something you and others try to shy away from? What is exactly wrong with getting yourself into something deeper or beyond what you intended? The way you and others talk about it, is it's kind of like a shameful thing to get more involved or deeper than intended. Why? Isn't that how friendships develop? I'd think most of the time when you meet new people and make friends, you don't know if it's going to be deep or not, and you wait and find out. I'm not INFJ, but for me, I would never think of it as a bad thing if a relationship gets deeper or closer than I anticipated.

 

[John K]

I understand, but it's easier said than done. And we cannot forget that I do have feelings for Elizabeth, so it's not easy to just move on like that. I mean I am trying to, but for me sometimes I really need time to evaluate situations before moving on to learn from them. It's not in my nature to just forget about things. This is a little off topic, but a year ago, I spent almost 6 months trying to figure out a situation where another girl that I'll call Alyssa ended a friendship with me that was extremely devastating. I'm not sure if Alyssa was an INFJ or not; I HIGHLY DOUBT IT. Alyssa and I were not close, but I wanted a closer friendship with her, and she seemed sweet and also very smart. Might've honestly been the same kind of things, but my point is, it takes me time, and I can't just forget things. I need time to analyze the situation.

One of the things I do want to ask you though as an INFJ, and this is probably valid for anyone actually, is why is a deeper friendship something you and others try to shy away from? What is exactly wrong with getting yourself into something deeper or beyond what you intended? The way you and others talk about it, is it's kind of like a shameful thing to get more involved or deeper than intended. Why? Isn't that how friendships develop? I'd think most of the time when you meet new people and make friends, you don't know if it's going to be deep or not, and you wait and find out. I'm not INFJ, but for me, I would never think of it as a bad thing if a relationship gets deeper or closer than I anticipated.

Talking in general terms, it's not at all that INFJ people shy away from deeper friendships. It's just that like all introverts it often takes us a long time to develop them - months at least, if not years. What we are good at is giving positive vibes to people we meet casually in everyday situations and - particularly when we are young - this can give others a false expectation of how we feel about them. Because we can come across as sympathetic, this can attract needy people who take far more from us than they give us back in return in a friendship or a closer relationship. We don't like conflict and we don't like upsetting people - when I say "don't like" I mean it can tear us apart emotionally. Until we have got wise to how this can happen, we let things run on until our emotional tanks run dry, it then becomes intolerable and we back off abruptly with a feeling that we have failed, blended in a paradoxical way with a feeling of relief. If you look across the many threads on this site, you will find a variety of examples of how this has happened to some of us over the years.

Now from what you have said, it isn't actually clear that any of this is what has happened with Elizabeth, though it's possible that there is an element of it. Without hearing her side, I wouldn't like to say anything for sure, but your contacts with her are quite limited for this to have happened. One distinct possibility though - young women can feel incredibly vulnerable and general social media stories can amplify this. It's unusual for a guy to move across most of a continent to be near a girl who they have only met briefly face to face, and not a lot more online. Whether this is what you actually did, or whether it's a coincidence that you moved to her town, could it be that you have spooked her and her friends without intending to? Fear is a powerful block on friendships and people will tend to play safe.

There's quite a lot of speculation here, built on what you have said in your posts, and some of it may well miss the mark. I really hope you can free yourself up from months of confusion and regret.

 

[DreamStreet]

Now from what you have said, it isn't actually clear that any of this is what has happened with Elizabeth, though it's possible that there is an element of it. Without hearing her side, I wouldn't like to say anything for sure, but your contacts with her are quite limited for this to have happened. One distinct possibility though - young women can feel incredibly vulnerable and general social media stories can amplify this. It's unusual for a guy to move across most of a continent to be near a girl who they have only met briefly face to face, and not a lot more online. Whether this is what you actually did, or whether it's a coincidence that you moved to her town, could it be that you have spooked her and her friends without intending to? Fear is a powerful block on friendships and people will tend to play safe.

There's quite a lot of speculation here, built on what you have said in your posts, and some of it may well miss the mark. I really hope you can free yourself up from months of confusion and regret.

Yeah, I just feel that I didn't have enough contact with Elizabeth for that to have actually been the case, unless it was somewhat or just part of it.

To be honest, I am afraid I might've spooked her and her friends without intending to, by what you just described above. I'll tell you, it was probably 50% a coincidence and 50% I moved because of her. I did get a lot of job offers there that I did not get in other towns that seemed like great offers. However, I did kind of intentionally look there for more offers when I remembered that she lived there. Before, I moved, I told her, Sarah, and Mike that I got a new job here and that is basically why I am moving. However, after I moved, I started to open up more honestly, and say that it wasn't only the job, but also because of connections with Elizabeth and Sarah and I was looking for a new friend group and thought they'd be great people. I think I might've made it sound like they led me on to move when I told them and other people. They did talk about excitement to see me, but I wouldn't say they "LED ME ON" like that, but I might've made it sound that way with the way I told people. I think I admitted to Elizabeth that she was one of the reasons that I moved and she was like: "Aww, that is so sweet." However, I know some girls might say that phrase when they might feel a little weirded out by a situation. And people were starting to find out more and more that I had high hopes and expectations of being part of the ministry, especially Mike. Mike originally thought I moved for just a job, but after everything that happened, he appears to be learning more that I moved because of the ministry with the expectation of being able to join it. Do you think that can definitely spook people? I know it is likely very unusual. I'm afraid that in itself kind of spooked Elizabeth, and probably more so her friends in that ministry.

Not to mention, this kind of behavior is very normal for me personally to move or relocate because I want to make friends with someone specific or develop closer relationships with people I met once. This is NOT the first time I have done something like this, and I even do it for platonic reasons and NOT only if I have romantic feelings. That being said, I do think it's very unusual, and those others didn't know me well to know that this is a very common practice for me.