[INFJ] - You've got to be a bitch to succeed in life! | INFJ Forum

[INFJ] You've got to be a bitch to succeed in life!

Discussion in 'Relationships and Sociology' started by Artemisia, May 18, 2016.

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  1. Artemisia

    Artemisia Community Member

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    From personal experience, the nicer I am to people the more I don't get what I deserve, at work, in relationships, even with costumer service. When I used to be bitchier I got nearly everything......including jobs, guys, and a better salary. So my conclusion is that bitchiness is rewarded and that empathy is overrated.

    Agree or disagree? Can you provide some evidence?
     
  2. the

    the Si master race.
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    Why did you change?
     
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  3. dwr46y

    dwr46y Well-known weirdo

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    People resort to being a bitch when they are unlikable. Funnily enough being likeable makes you more successful.
     
  4. OP
    Artemisia

    Artemisia Community Member

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    Why did I change? Mostly circumstance. My father passed away four years ago and the year after that my mom was diagnosed with cancer. I am an only child and it hit me very hard so I thought being nice was the way to go. After a few years of this, I realize that I was better off when I was bitchier. Got a lot more things done, demanded what I wanted, and didn't put up with bullshit as much.
     
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    Artemisia

    Artemisia Community Member

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    Not true. Successful people earn the respect of others. Most likeable people are people pleasers and most people in power do not trust them.
     
  6. dwr46y

    dwr46y Well-known weirdo

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    Not true because people don't actually like people pleasers. I don't know why you think people-pleasers and likeable people were in the same category.
     
  7. Tin Man

    Tin Man "a respectable amount of screaming"

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    I suppose it depends how you define success. If success to you is measured purely in acquiring wealth in a cutthroat business, then I suppose it does help to have sociopath tendencies. If, however, you see success in being psychologically healthy and surrounded by those who genuinely care about you, then no.
     
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  8. dwr46y

    dwr46y Well-known weirdo

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    Sociopaths don't feel/think there is anything wrong with them. More than likely they think we're the ones who are crippled with empathy.
     
  9. Pyrrhula

    Pyrrhula Community Member

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    I think, with regard to relationships, that like attracts like. If you want to attract a bad boy, or someone who is wrong for you, then you need to be a bitch. Nice, healthy guys, who are right for you, will appreciate the same in return.

    I notice fake people do well at work. I'm not sure about bitchy.
     
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  10. Night Owl

    Night Owl This Bird Has Flown

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    I can see where you're coming from.

    There's a happy medium, being nice, polite and kind but more assertive and direct. It's like being champagne without the fluff and fizz but keeping its likable freshness.

    One can make basic social adjustments in regards to their manner and can make certain compromises for the sake of others without being a door mat or a people-pleaser.

    The world needs more authentically nice people!
     
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  11. Asa

    Asa Resident palindrome

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    Strong women are labeled bitches, whether the term accurately describes them or not.
    The older you get the harder life becomes. Whether you're nice or not, your goals are harder to reach (or should be) because you've raised the bar. When the bar is raised, you'll miss out on goals, desires, or needs, more often. Plus, life is generally more 'hard' than 'easy', so if you look back, you'll have far more 'hard' experiences than easy ones.

    Striking a balance between 'hard' behaviors (don't take shit - behaviors that could label you a bitch) and 'soft' behaviors (kindness, compassion) seems more natural to most people. Soft behaviors can be strong, too, as long as you're not a pushover. (I think INFJs and INFPs have a tendency to be pushovers and generally let people go too far.) The most powerful women I know (successful in their private lives and in their careers) are supportive and kind to their friends, and fantastic in nurturing roles, but you always know where the line you should not cross is. It is not vague, and there is no leniency. When the line is crossed "prepare to die".

    But, really, just be yourself! Genuine people are most attractive. If you're a hardass own it. Fake nice is much more unattractive than real bitchiness.
     
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  12. SpecialEdition

    SpecialEdition Well-known member

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    I think of myself as assertive and dominant as opposed to bitchy. Bitchiness to me is a sign of weakness that often expresses itself through passive aggression and catty drama. For myself I am pretty successful in all areas of my life. Not because I'm an asshole to other people but because I assert myself and my value. I can be callous and I can manipulate and mistreat people if I choose to but I find that sort of behaviour can only carry one so far as people learn not to trust you or put much faith in your ability to serve them.

    I think most people look out for their own self interest. Some people are just not very good at appropriately voicing how they feel or what they want. I've practiced it over several years so am pretty in tune with my capabilities and what I am worth to myself. Sometimes that doesn't always translate into bigger promotions or luxury or whatever because it requires more than one person to be on board with it. I will say that I avoid compromising my integrity where possible even if it lands me in hot water. I still wouldn't say it is bitchiness. I just own myself.
     
  13. brightmoon

    brightmoon Community Member

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    [MENTION=14092]Asa[/MENTION] What also matters is how one defines "success" as [MENTION=5667]Jacobi[/MENTION] has pointed out, Are we talking about the acquisition of wealth and status here? For many people these mainstream measurements of success mean very little, but having said that, it does take strength to take this stance, especially living in a society where the worth of individuals is constantly being measured and competing self interest is encouraged . How does one define success in private life? It depends on how you want to live your life I suppose, but defining success in private life seems to be much harder. What constitutes success for one person may be failure for another.

    More questions than answers I guess
     
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  14. Wyote

    Wyote ○●○
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    There are several elements to the successful person/personality that people get confused on.

    Just taking a random list of some traits off the internet which I generally do agree with:

    Passion: Can be confused with bull headedness, lack of empathy for others
    Hard Work: Can be confused with strictness, rigidity
    Focus: Can be confused with callousness and aloofness
    Limit Breakers: Can be confused with unpredictability, precariousness
    Ideators: Can be confused with disorganized, neglectful
    Self-Improvers: Can be confused with selfishness, over indulgence
    Give Value To Others: Can be confused with being disingenuous
    Persistent: Can be confused with hard headed, unresponsive, biased, intolerant
     
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  15. MrSquared

    MrSquared Well-known member

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    Generally - My niceness doesn't always get me much in this world. But that's OK. I'd rather be nice and feel genuine to myself.
     
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  16. Tin Man

    Tin Man "a respectable amount of screaming"

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    Yes, I'm aware. Same with a lot of schizophrenics, who believe there's something wrong with other people for not being able to see what they see.
     
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  17. Asa

    Asa Resident palindrome

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    [MENTION=14199]brightmoon[/MENTION] - of course! :)
    But diverting from mainstream versions of success doesn't guarantee success, either. In fact, it can make 'success' even harder to obtain.
    The deeper you want to go, the more you have to dig.

    [MENTION=251]Wyote[/MENTION] - Excellent list. Spot on.
     
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  18. sassafras

    sassafras Well-known monster
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    In my humble opinion, the whole "BITCH = Babe In Total Control of Herself' is frequently misunderstood and abused. The chicks who put this glittery bumper sticker on their Facebook are usually the ones who mistake an aggressive personality for a confident one. And they usually adopt this attitude because they are convinced it will protect them from the heartbreak and disappointment of being a doormat. However, if you look closely, these 'Babes in Total Control of [Themselves]' often have the exact same problems as the doormats.

    Why? Because more often than not, they're really just a doormat in a bitch's clothing. They're still drawn to the kinds of relationships and situations that come from a deep, dark place of insecurity and they ardently believe they can just change the outcome by following some kind of Bitch Manual.

    The thing is, if you are highly reactive and either overtly or passively aggressive, you are not in control of yourself. If you feel you have to regularly dose someone with carefully timed bitchy negativity so that they won't leave you/disrespect you, you are not in control of yourself. When you feel like you have to manipulate or bully people into acting in ways to validate your self-worth, you are not in control of yourself. You're still depending on others to shape the way you feel about yourself. You're a slave to your ego. And if your ego isn't healthy, you are going to find life to be a struggle because most people will see right through your ruse. Not only that, most people won't like you. And all it will take is something or somebody to put a wrench in your coping mechanism and suddenly, you will be left with a lot of pieces to pick up. Personally, I don't know any 'bitches' that know how to fall gracefully, but I do know a lot of people who enjoy watching someone like that crash and burn.

    I'm not saying that someone who is a bitch cannot succeed. As @Wyote pointed out, there are many different traits that are important to success that sometimes overlap with what is perceived to be bitchy. And frankly, I think anyone has a chance of succeeding if they have a good blend of achieving traits and can stand to knock on the door of success enough times without giving up. But some people can achieve success more consistently and elegantly without having to bruise themselves or the people around them.

    In my opinion, it is more important to strive for positive self-esteem and a healthy ego. People with positive self-esteem and healthy egos choose relationships and situations that move them towards positive growth. These kinds of people are more likeable, they have charisma and other happy, healthy and positive people want to be around them. A person with healthy self esteem doesn't feel like they have to have something/someone to complete them. They take things at face value rather than reacting from a place of fear. They don't feel the need to control others or follow some kind of guide or school themselves to act a certain way. Their reactions come from an authentic place within themselves. If they need to speak up for themselves, they do. If they know a situation or person is not good for them, they trust they will find a better fit and let it go. In general, they have a clearer understanding of what they want, what they need to do, who they are, where they fit in the world around them and thus, are in a better position to navigate this life.

    tl;dr: it's better to cultivate a genuine sense of personal strength and self-worth rather than adopt an attitude that pretends at it because that won't stamp out the problems of low self esteem and what they attract.
     
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    #18 sassafras, May 18, 2016
    Last edited: May 18, 2016
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  19. dwr46y

    dwr46y Well-known weirdo

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    No no, you're not aware. I came here to school you.
     
  20. acd

    acd Well-known member

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    Define bitchy. For women, being assertive and firm and empowered is usually seen as being bitchy. I agree, when I am assertive and firm and feel empowered I tend to get good results.
     
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