Xenophobia

[Elegant Winter]

I think many forum-goers don't quite understand what "xenophobia" means. I want this thread to be a center of discussion regarding the exact meaning of "xenophobia."

According to Dictionary.com:

1. an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange.

Let's focus on the word "unreasonable." So, the questions we want to ask ourselves are: what is it that we fear or hate and is it reasonable to fear or hate it?

Firstly, I'd like to point out that if the fear or hatred is reasonable, then it's not xenophobia. All right, that being said, I find inviting millions of members of a religion that often advocates brutally executing apostates and stoning women to death for adultery (sometimes when raped) into our countries to be a reasonable cause for fear. I also think Islam ought to be hated because it's extremely barbaric.

So, do you think that is a reasonable cause for fear? And do you think Islam ought to be hated?

Feel free to share other thoughts as well.

 

[Eventhorizon]

A government needs to have laws outside of religions. Meaning regardless of what your religion allows or does not, the governments laws supercede everything else.
Who cares what Islam allows. Its nothing any more horrendous than Christianity or Catholicism.

 

[Elegant Winter]

A government needs to have laws outside of religions. Meaning regardless of what your religion allows or does not, the governments laws supercede everything else.
Who cares what Islam allows. Its nothing any more horrendous than Christianity or Catholicism.

Modern Christians don't execute apostates or stone women who were raped to death for adultery.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Modern Christians don't execute apostates or stone to death women who were raped for adultery.

No. But I think we all know given the chance they would. Besides thats the foundation of that and many other religions. Even if it doesn't happen today by following the religion you condone the past actions associated with it.

 

[Elegant Winter]

No. But I think we all know given the chance they would. Besides thats the foundation of that and many other religions. Even if it doesn't happen today by following the religion you condone the past actions associated with it.

Why are you so anti-Christianity though?

 

[Eventhorizon]

Why are you so anti-Christianity though?

Im not. I have issue with religions in general pointing at other religions saying "how bad they are" never mentioning their own which are just as bad. Christianity isnt any less violent than Islam, a fact history has recorded. Thats all.

 

[JJJA]

The forum worships the state. The larger the government, the more reliable and caring it is of the people in their mindset. The values of democratic rights, individual liberties, enlightenment philosophies and criticism of religion seems to be more of a nuisance to them, rather than easily lost human rights that millions of people died defending not 80 years ago. It's why I use this forum a lot less. It is full of anti-capitalist edgelords that think their Twitter feeds provide them with enough virtue-signalled buzz-phrases that will inform their political agenda to snub our ill-protected rights in-favour of smearing the men that protect them while they sleep.

Having said that, I'm not sure why you think particular ethnicities are better than others by default. That's a very poisonous mindset to take although may not be xenophobic, it is bordering on blatant white supremacy.

 

[SpecialEdition]

I don't think people as a whole are any less barbaric or violent than they used to be. You have to consider the context in which these acts are allowed to exist without consequences. Do you not think that some people who are Christians would slay gay people and people of other religions if there weren't such heavy consequences in the western world? Do you think that extremism is a result of lack of true consequences?

You can only point at one religion as being "wrong" based on your own definition of what is right.

Therefore, I am not afraid of Islam any more than I am afraid of any other religion or belief system and I am not afraid because of the context of my own reality - that is to say I am not exposed to that extremism and if I am at risk of experiencing it I'll likely be dead before I know that it has occurred anyway.

If your society thrives on peace and consequence then having a large influx of people move in who clash with that and outright disobey your social rules and your laws can be scary if they're not under control. For this reason I can appreciate why some people are afraid of the Islam religion even if not all Muslims practice extremism. I can't really judge those feelings because I am not experiencing a large influx of people that is upsetting the balance of my own home.

 

[JJJA]

All religions deserve an equal share of ridicule and criticism. Islam is simply the most popular (and therefore dangerous) ideology at the moment.

 

[brightmoon]

From my perspective religious fundamentalism, be it Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or Buddhist is the issue. Fundamentalists preach that modern society is corrupt and must be purified of its corrupt elements and only true believers who repent and accept the literal word (how they interpret literal) are legitimate and should be allowed to practice and in some case even live. They also believe in strict adherence to antiquated social codes that have little to do with the actual practice of faith and blatantly ignore the overall message of these faith to help others whatever they believe. This is why Daesh is destroying Muslim shrines and killing other Muslims like Sufis and Yazidis who don't pass their faith tests.
[MENTION=13855]JJJA[/MENTION] just like most people on the right you get all bothered about big government yet have nothing to say about crony capitalism and the concentration of economic power that is going on. The power of multinational corporations pales by comparison to any national entity. They are buying and selling states and every political party is beholden to them. The state works for them for their interests not the interests of the people. Look at the 2008 bailouts. The money isn't going to support the people, aside from a few crumbs that fall off the table, its going to super rich and the speculators to protect their interests. They have also managed to convince people that any challenge to their power is a threat to society as a whole. People are started to wake up slowly.

 

[JJJA]

From my perspective religious fundamentalism, be it Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or Buddhist is the issue. Fundamentalists preach that modern society is corrupt and must be purified of its corrupt elements and only true believers who repent and accept the literal word (how they interpret literal) are legitimate and should be allowed to practice and in some case even live. They also believe in strict adherence to antiquated social codes that have little to do with the actual practice of faith and blatantly ignore the overall message of these faith to help others whatever they believe. This is why Daesh is destroying Muslim shrines and killing other Muslims like Sufis and Yazidis who don't pass their faith tests.
[MENTION=13855]JJJA[/MENTION] just like most people on the right you get all bothered about big government yet have nothing to say about crony capitalism and the concentration of economic power that is going on. The power of multinational corporations pales by comparison to any national entity. They are buying and selling states and every political party is beholden to them. The state works for them for their interests not the interests of the people. Look at the 2008 bailouts. The money isn't going to support the people, aside from a few crumbs that fall off the table, its going to super rich and the speculators to protect their interests. They have also managed to convince people that any challenge to their power is a threat to society as a whole. People are started to wake up slowly.

You are blaming Corporations, not Capitalism. They are using Capitalism to their own advantage. And please stop calling me right-wing. It's getting tiresome...

 

[brightmoon]

[MENTION=13855]JJJA[/MENTION] Ok What are you again, and forgive if you already stated how you would like political philosophy categorized? If are you on the right on the left or the center? Those are the very broad categorizations of political thought in the Western world which encompass, again very broadly speaking, most political ideologies. You are clearly not a leftist given your previous critiques of socialism, "big government", and what you have referred to as "social justice warriors" but you need to help beyond this.

Here some graphics that may help me illustrate my point. Feel free to place yourself somewhere. Each of these is imperfect but it give some sort of idea. I think you already know where I stand.



https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_honest_ideology_chart.png#filelinks

 

[Night Owl]

Xeno is Xena's brother. Why would people hate on him? Disgusting.

 

[brightmoon]

Lucy my fav kiwi ever

 

[koizora]

As a European living in a country with a rather large influx of Muslim immigrants, I get where the fear among many is coming from. I must admit that I'm also worried after what happened to all those women in Cologne, Germany. There have been cases of Muslim men groping young women in my country as well, not that much though and only in the larger cities.

That being said, I do not think Islam ought to be hated. In every religion, you will have people who take things to the extreme or interpret things the wrong way. Yes, even Christians, especially in the past. You just don't hear a lot about it nowadays since the number of Christians have been declining the past decades.

Regarding worries towards purely economic refugees who disguise themselves as war refugees: I also get that. I've seen videos of refugees complaining that they don't get money from the state right away, and I just think that's ridiculous. If you've just arrived in a country that is taking you in because there is war in your own country then I assume you'd be glad you're in a safe environment. Yet a lot of refugees are complaining. There have also been cases that refugees who got asylum were given preferential treatment at the expense of others. They get a house, money and furniture, all from the state. An acquaintance had to deliver the newest washing machines to a few people for a while, all paid by the municipality. Yet the state often won't help native citizens who pay taxes whenever they're in deep trouble. However, even though this is unfair, I don't think this is a valid reason to hate the refugees. It's a fault made by the government. A lot of people don't even mind helping the refugees; as long as the native population gets help as well when they need it.

Sadly a lot of people are ignorant towards this case and just start hating these people and their religion. I also feel a lot is manipulated by the media.... Sometimes I don't know what to believe. I do think the key to making this work should be mutual effort: the refugees should also make the effort to adjust to the Western culture if they want to live here.

Ok.. I'll stop before I start designing my idea of an ideal society. I think I would spend hours on that concept since I have trouble imagining that because: people.

 

[Skarekrow]

Seriously, with all due respect [MENTION=12656]Elegant Winter[/MENTION] but don’t you personally admit to wanting a separation of the races...at the very least the Muslims?
Don’t let haters get you all butt hurt because someone called you Xenophobic.
The thing though is, the way you think is a minority viewpoint in the US, so is everyone else who doesn’t think we should be separate all just ignorant and uninformed?
Most people IMHO probably try to create less racial tension or religious tension, most people just want to live their lives in peace.
But face it...we’ve killed a lot of people over the years in the middle east...we’ve given a lot of people good reasons to hate us.
And I’m not defending any terrorist, what they do is wrong and disgusting...but it doesn’t take much to make crazy go off, pick your reason, religion, race, position in life, etc.
It doesn’t take much for some kid, dirt poor and starving, who’s got no hope of upward mobility, to fall in with and be grateful to groups like ISIS who clothe, feed, and pay them money to send home.
Then you just have looney tunes who do this or that in the name of this or that God...remember the OK city bombing was carried out by “Christians”.
If they are crazy, any reason will do.
There are “Christians” in African countries who stone people to death still, or actually have laws, based on US missionary lobbying, that make homosexuality punishable by death.
No one is innocent here.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

I can't believe people are still so stupid to think islam is a race, and employ the term 'racist' against those who oppose it. Unless some fucking brains are going to be involved in the discussion, just butt out imo.

Back to the thread topic, I think part of the problem with mass immigration is a vacuum of national identity in host countries.

We in the West are so fond of stating our national identities as a non-identity, aligned with abstract ideals so general and universal, that they don't actually identify the speaker, that strange, or dangerous ideologies don't really clash. The aftermath of these ideologies are relegated to the legal system, to clean up the mess.

I don't think fear of dangerous ideologies is as important, as having a grasp of one's own peaceful/egalitarian/benign/etc. ideology, and being discerning enough to identify ideologies opposed to those values. Immigration decisions can then be made with some consideration about whether one's country is the best fit for a potential citizen, and whether that potential citizen is a good fit for one's country. People use this discernment when deciding/choosing jobs, houses, friends, pastimes, etc. Immigration shouldn't exclude prudent judgement.

 

[Siimplicity]

Mass immigration opened the door to the fall of Rome. They let in the Goths who were trying to get away from the Huns and then the Goths eventually sacked Rome.

Of course Rome was vulnerable having become divided. Full circle for the West once again if we don't hark to the warnings written in history.

Here read this quick synopsis: http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/8-reasons-why-rome-fell
Doesn't that sound familiar?

 

[JJJA]

Mass immigration opened the door to the fall of Rome. They let in the Goths who were trying to get away from the Huns and then the Goths eventually sacked Rome.

Of course Rome was vulnerable having become divided. Full circle for the West once again if we don't hark to the warnings written in history.

Here read this quick synopsis: http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/8-reasons-why-rome-fell
Doesn't that sound familiar?

That's exactly why Hitchens, in 2007, warned that the barbarians are not only at the gate, they are WELL inside, and the people letting them in are the other religious groups advocating tolerance toward intolerance. These movements are also being reinforced intellectually by media organisations that still to this very day only wish to stamp out a particular version of racism and Xenophobia; the white working class kind. The xenophobia encountered by minorities from other minorities is almost never reported; the same can be said for the intolerance projected by Muslims to Jews, non-Muslims and other 'fake' Muslims. These religions demand our respect whilst they also demand that we turn-over our democratic rights to support preferential treatment to make any criticism of their dogma completely immune to any form of public scrutiny: the very definition of political correctness. I said I wouldn't post on such topics, but I simply felt I had to for the benefit of those that prefer to defend intolerance.

Now I shall take refuge in my blog....

 

[La Sagna]

I can't believe people are still so stupid to think islam is a race, and employ the term 'racist' against those who oppose it. Unless some fucking brains are going to be involved in the discussion, just butt out imo.

Back to the thread topic, I think part of the problem with mass immigration is a vacuum of national identity in host countries.

We in the West are so fond of stating our national identities as a non-identity, aligned with abstract ideals so general and universal, that they don't actually identify the speaker, that strange, or dangerous ideologies don't really clash. The aftermath of these ideologies are relegated to the legal system, to clean up the mess.

I don't think fear of dangerous ideologies is as important, as having a grasp of one's own peaceful/egalitarian/benign/etc. ideology, and being discerning enough to identify ideologies opposed to those values. Immigration decisions can then be made with some consideration about whether one's country is the best fit for a potential citizen, and whether that potential citizen is a good fit for one's country. People use this discernment when deciding/choosing jobs, houses, friends, pastimes, etc. Immigration shouldn't exclude prudent judgement.

I don't see anywhere on this thread mentioning racism. Xenophobia is not racism, it is a fear of foreigners, which can just as easily be people of the same race but different cultures. Many of the comments on here are well thought out and respectfully discussed so I'm not sure why the suggestion for people to butt out.