Why do people seem less concerned about social engineering?

[Lark]

I wonder why people seem less concerned than ever about social engineering or manipulation?

I'll just clarify that I include as social engineering that "spontaneous order" that neo-liberals and conservatives think is the "natural order" in the abscence of policies or protest they dont like.

Also there's a lot of social trends, protest movements, like the whole gay "marriage" thing, and cultural phenomenon such as the hunger games trilogy, the divergent series, which, while they make good reading and have some valid provided they are not considered one-dimensionally or decontextualised, which arent considered much which I think have a real destabilising effect.

When I was at uni the first time, more than ten or twelve years ago, sociology wasnt as slick as it is today, there wasnt anything like the consideration of micro and macro sociological research, there wasnt the overlaps with psychology etc. however sociology was still cognizant of things such as primary, ie family, immediate neighbours, peers and such, and secondary, ie school, media, socialisation. That doesnt seem to have carried beyond the academy very much, despite marketing people describing people as more saavy and less susceptible to simple marketing and advertising tricks of the trade.

 

[Shaqie]

Why do people seem less concerned about social engineering?

Because the majority of people are narrow minded idiots, who, when hearing "social engineering", look at you as if you come from the planet Jupiter and instead go get drunk, trying to suppress the shittiness in their lives, they, in most cases, are more than capable to deal with.

 

[sprinkles]

And maybe some people actually agree with some of the things that are being engineered.

 

[the]

If someone was to confront me about social engineering it would be the first time, and to call it so. eng. is too broad a term that I wouldn't even know where to start. If all social engineering is are the things you mentioned above, then it doesnt seem that sinister. What are the goals of social engineering?

 

[Elis]

I feel a bit perplexed trying to comprehend what you're saying (probably on my end).

First of all, I don't think we are less concerned about social engineering now than before. If anything I think we are generally more aware now, though I do understand that sociology has become more advanced and thus we might be relatively less knowledgeable to it as a whole.

Secondly, I agree that this is something that people should try to be more aware of. In the past people usually got a lot of their values from their parents and close friends, for good and bad. I still think this holds true to some extent, but we have much more global information these days. There is a lot of bad agenda out there (if you will), but I still think that with a wider perspective we can make better rational decisions.


We might not hold on as hard to old beliefs as we might have in the past - but is that really a negative thing?

 

[Keirouen]

People are more concerned with social engineering now than ever before. Social engineering is more intricate now than ever before.

The problem? The power of social engineering comes from its invisibility and the ignorance of the targeted demographic.

I'm one of those rare people who pays keen attention to the social engineering around me. It makes me sick. Often it's hard to find enjoyable entertainment when all I can think about is every little instance of social engineering and how annoying it is.

Social engineering is dangerous. The human psyche can be deeply influenced by the barrage of social engineering present everywhere. It's only going to get worse...

 

[Lark]

People are more concerned with social engineering now than ever before. Social engineering is more intricate now than ever before.

The problem? The power of social engineering comes from its invisibility and the ignorance of the targeted demographic.

I'm one of those rare people who pays keen attention to the social engineering around me. It makes me sick. Often it's hard to find enjoyable entertainment when all I can think about is every little instance of social engineering and how annoying it is.

Social engineering is dangerous. The human psyche can be deeply influenced by the barrage of social engineering present everywhere. It's only going to get worse...

I'm inclined to agree with you that it is only going to get worse, social media and its ilk provide massive transformative and coercive powers to private individuals in aggregate, there's likely to be trends which will make the last hundreds of years of social upheavels surrounding differences of religion, ideology, social attitudes look like a milk run.

 

[muir]

Many people are too wrapped up in consumerism and maintaining status and this has drawn their focus away from the bigger picture of what is going on in the world and why

 

[Poetic Justice]

Specifics people

What are you actually talking about?

All laws are social engineering and some of them are pretty good ideas, right?

Education is social engineering

For a proper discussion we need to know what types of social engineering (I'm assuming) you disagree with

 

[muir]

Specifics people

What are you actually talking about?

All laws are social engineering and some of them are pretty good ideas, right?

Education is social engineering

For a proper discussion we need to know what types of social engineering (I'm assuming) you disagree with

The ones coming from central control

 

[Poetic Justice]

The ones coming from central control

I don't know what that means

 

[muir]

I don't know what that means

Everyone is different....we can see that clearly on this forum even...lots of different perspectives, views, ways of expressing ourselves, ways of thinking and seeing and feeling etc

A problem comes when a group of people form a faction and say: ''our way is THE way and we are going to make everyone conform to our way of doing things''

There are factions out there

There are groups of people with a vision for the world which they are trying to impose on society

One way to do this is to speak to people about ideas in an open and honest way and to hear their perspectives and get feedback on what they think would work and wouldn't work and to thrash out compromises that sit ok with everyone

But if you are a government for example then you can impose your vision for the world on the people with the full force of the legal system to back you up

But who forms governments?

Usually in a money based system money buys power and influence so money takes control of governments. So we can reasonably say that the people who control government are the people who own the most money

But the vision that the people with the most money might have for the world might not be the same vision that the rest of humanity want for themselves

This then creates a clash

However the super wealthy have ways to try and influence the people into going along with their vision. For example they can gain influence over the education system (which you already mentioned), they can buy up the mainstream media and influence peoples perceptions that way and they can influence the government to pass laws that are favourable to their vision. They can also bribe and threaten people in key positions to get their way in pretty much any area of life.

The super rich might also join with other super rich to protect their common interests for example creating and maintaining a society where the super rich are given favourable conditions such as low tax rates for the rich and/ or tax havens

If the public have been distracted by consumerism then they have effectively taken their eye off the ball and looked away whislt the super rich go about systematically taking over the system

 

[dogman6126]

Everyone is different....we can see that clearly on this forum even...lots of different perspectives, views, ways of expressing ourselves, ways of thinking and seeing and feeling etc

A problem comes when a group of people form a faction and say: ''our way is THE way and we are going to make everyone conform to our way of doing things''

There are factions out there

There are groups of people with a vision for the world which they are trying to impose on society

One way to do this is to speak to people about ideas in an open and honest way and to hear their perspectives and get feedback on what they think would work and wouldn't work and to thrash out compromises that sit ok with everyone

But if you are a government for example then you can impose your vision for the world on the people with the full force of the legal system to back you up

But who forms governments?

Usually in a money based system money buys power and influence so money takes control of governments. So we can reasonably say that the people who control government are the people who own the most money

But the vision that the people with the most money might have for the world might not be the same vision that the rest of humanity want for themselves

This then creates a clash

However the super wealthy have ways to try and influence the people into going along with their vision. For example they can gain influence over the education system (which you already mentioned), they can buy up the mainstream media and influence peoples perceptions that way and they can influence the government to pass laws that are favourable to their vision. They can also bribe and threaten people in key positions to get their way in pretty much any area of life.

The super rich might also join with other super rich to protect their common interests for example creating and maintaining a society where the super rich are given favourable conditions such as low tax rates for the rich and/ or tax havens

If the public have been distracted by consumerism then they have effectively taken their eye off the ball and looked away whislt the super rich go about systematically taking over the system

You still didn't answer his question. He asked what types of social engineering are we talking about here that are disagreeable. I agree with [MENTION=472]Poetic Justice[/MENTION]. Some or possibly many forms of social engineering ( I still don't fully understand what is ment by this) would seem beneficial. Education, advanced medicine to name a few.

 

[muir]

You still didn't answer his question. He asked what types of social engineering are we talking about here that are disagreeable. I agree with @Poetic Justice . Some or possibly many forms of social engineering ( I still don't fully understand what is ment by this) would seem beneficial. Education, advanced medicine to name a few.

I did answer his question

I said the types of social engineering that are coming from the super rich which are centrally controlling the government

 

[Eventhorizon]

Give examples of what you are talking about please.
It may be that I agree with what you do not (more than likely) and perhaps I can give you some thought process as to why its desired.

 

[Lark]

For my part I was talking about manipulation and, well, engineering, its possible to debate whether this or that sort of social attitude or norm is desireable or changeable but that any society or business should have the power of influence to such an extent that they can decide to identify and change attitudes and behaviour and enforce any short fall used to be something people cared about.

Yesterday's non-conformists have disappeared and been replaced with a glut of individuals who want their own brand of conformity to prevail.