What can we learn from the oil spill?

[Satya]

So I just read that the top kill failed to stop the oil spill. I'm disappointed to hear it, but amazed that people are more inclined to point fingers of blame than think about what we can learn from this tragedy. Conservatives are blaming Obama for being an "ineffective leader" at stopping the spill and Liberals are angry at BP for being the "evil, profit mongering corporation" that started it. Nobody is talking about how we are going to prevent such tragedies from reoccurring, and if they do occur, what we can do so that they never reach this level. So what do you think?

 

[Gaze]

So I just read that the top kill failed to stop the oil spill. I'm disappointed to hear it, but amazed that people are more inclined to point fingers of blame than think about what we can learn from this tragedy. Conservatives are blaming Obama for being an "ineffective leader" at stopping the spill and Liberals are angry at BP for being the "evil, profit mongering corporation" that started it. Nobody is talking about how we are going to prevent such tragedies from reoccurring, and if they do occur, what we can do so that they never reach this level. So what do you think?

Yeah, i think the finger pointing is a bit much. You're right, focus should be on working through the methods to help stop it. And the media isn't helping. They're amping up the rhetoric on who's to blame and why they haven't found an effective solution yet. It's clear that it's not something that's going to simply go away overnight. They need time. They can only try, try, try, and keep trying again. Of course we'd like them to be successful, but sitting in judgment is not a solution imo.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Oil usually floats, but not always.

*Sorry, I'm in weird hyper mood right now*


Nevertheless, this has been a learning experience for oceanographers. The slick did not behave as was first expected much of it actually remained submerged because of temperature gradients, wave & current action, and some even speculate the use of detergents is to blame.

The main concern about the submerged slick is the effect of CO2 build-up in the water, as bacteria begin to break the oil down.

 

[Archon]

76% off the off shore oil sites owned or leased by big oil go untapped.
They have oil reserves that they don't use..they buy or lease sites. They don't drill them so it keeps the prices high by taking those sites off the map for smaller companies to have and by not getting the oil they can claim supply is lower. Cheney and the big five had a meeting on this like at year two of their administration. It was a collusive act. Big oil denied the meetings, Cheney said nothing and refused to answer. The the freedom of info. act showed a memo of the VP's schedule... it happened. When gas was closing in on $5 a barrel and this news came out Schumer said there could be a congressional investigation..all the sudden gas began to drop.

Also, not down playing anything but i never knew 980,000 barrels of oil seep naturally into the gulf each year. Always wondered if there was natural oil spills...

In conclusion, we know that oil companies have been robbing us. We certainly did not know that it was to this extreme extent.

 

[Satya]

Yeah, i think the finger pointing is a bit much. You're right, focus should be on working through the methods to help stop it. And the media isn't helping. They're amping up the rhetoric on who's to blame and why they haven't found an effective solution yet. It's clear that it's not something that's going to simply go away overnight. They need time. They can only try, try, try, and keep trying again. Of course would like them to be successful, but sitting in judgment is not a solution imo.

I think I would feel a lot better about Obama's position in this if he were suggesting future solutions moreso that condemning BP and making idle threats. Perhaps the media isn't reporting on the future plans his administration has, but I suspect from what I have heard that they are as clueless as the rest of us.

And if I hear one more time, "BP will pay for the clean up" I think I'm going to throw a shoe through my TV. There is no such thing as a major company that is selling an essential resource paying for the damage it causes. Oil is a drug, just like cigarettes. And just like cigarettes, oil companies can pass the costs down to their customers. Just because the costs go up does not mean that the demand for oil will go down. All that is going to change is the price of oil is going to go up. We, the customers, are going to pay for this spill clean up at the pump and through more expensive food prices.

The longer that it takes BP and the Feds to stop the leak, the more it is going to cost us down the road. But I have accepted that as simply the reality of the situation. What is important now is figuring out what can be done to keep this from ever happening again.

 

[Skathac]

I wish they'd quit fucking up our playground. Put some committees together to investigate this oil spill and the shady oil companies price fixing the cost of oil. But right now fix whats wrong before the beaches in the southeastern United States are completely fucked.

I hate the beach but love the ocean, my Aunt and Uncle own a beach house they rent out in Gulf Shores. I've been down there a few times with family, its nice looking out at the ocean and noticing all the huge oil derricks littering the area. Now I understand we gotta have em to keep our infrastructure moving, but we gotta have better safety countermeasures and backup plans for our backup plans for our backup plans in case shit goes south. President isn't some superhero that can push all the oil back down to where it came from, I'm sure he's doing all he can. All I can think is to throw some more science guys at it and fix the problem, there has to be one human on this planet that can come up with a solution. Find that fucker!

 

[Kavalan]

Simply put more safety redundancies... I keep hearing engineers at my university talk about them but they always seem to be absent on crucial equipment. Also remote controlled robots are NOT redundancy in my eyes, that's plan C

 

[Skathac]

Well safety redundancies seem to be the first thing to go when it comes to the bottom dollar. My father once saw a man get crushed under a tire press at work because the company was just apathetic of the dangers to their workers, profit is always the primary concern in industry. Man wouldn't have lost his life if they only would have kept their safety countermeasures in working order, after the workers had reported them failing countless times.

I <3 Capitalism

 

[Faye]

We didn't really learn anything.

Hopefully we will learn how to plug up an oil leak, but that is dubious at this time. As for everything else, it is business as usual.

 

[Kavalan]

Stockholders vote with their shares, consumers vote with there money, federal agencies vote with stiff fines for those immediately involve and possibly more fines for those farther above who are idle. In a perfect world capitalism is great, humans ruin it.

 

[Skathac]

Good point Kavalan, Humans ruin everything heh.

 

[Satya]

I <3 Capitalism

Don't blame the system, blame the man.

When capitalism is practiced correctly, the laborer and capitalist do not try to exploit each other, but instead work in a spirit of cooperation to provide the maximum benefit to the public as a whole while profiting together. Many companies have successfully used this strategy for decades. The problem is when either capitalists or laborers sway from this formula to increase their own personal profit. Therefore the system didn't fail, but the men who were using it failed.

BP is going to pay dearly for what is has done. Not in profits, but in loss of reputation.

 

[Satya]

Stockholders vote with their shares

This will far from destroy BP. Investors will buy the stock once it is low and the company will once again thrive.

consumers vote with there money

Correction. Consumers can vote with their money when there is adequate competition and they can acquire enough of the resource to meet demand.

federal agencies vote with stiff fines for those immediately involve and possibly more fines for those farther above who are idle.

A cost, which is far more often than not, simply transferred to the consumer.

In a perfect world capitalism is great, humans ruin it.

Capitalism is an imperfect system. Humans need to take the human factor into consideration and improve upon it.

 

[Faye]

Don't blame the system, blame the man.

When capitalism is practiced correctly, the laborer and capitalist do not try to exploit each other, but instead work in a spirit of cooperation to provide the maximum benefit to the public as a whole while profiting together.

Are you serious? Is this a joke? What is the basis for practicing capitalism correctly, and when did this ever occur naturally?

Capitalism is about competition and exploitation, not cooperation. Corporations would squeeze every last drop of blood from their employees if labor laws didn't prevent them from doing so.

 

[Satya]

Capitalism is about competition and exploitation, not cooperation.

Incorrect. Those who cooperate can better compete. Those who exploit will reap what the sow.

What we face now is not capitalism but the effects of oligarchy. The economic power rests in the hands of a few, and they therefore sidestep capitalism in order to remain on top by cooperating to exploit the general public.

Price fixing is a form of cooperation to exploit by reducing competition.

The problem is that the general public is a stone, and you can only squeeze so much blood from a stone before it slips from your hand.

 

[Kavalan]

This will far from destroy BP. Investors will buy the stock once it is low and the company will once again thrive.

I was more thinking of a shakedown at their AGM depending on how much stock is out. If they were greedy and sold more than 50% then their could be a banding together of the stockholders and ousting of the Board.

Correction. Consumers can vote with their money when there is adequate competition and they can acquire enough of the resource to meet demand.

Don't know enough about antitrust law to really respond to this one.

A cost, which is far more often than not, simply transferred to the consumer.

Not the company. The people

Capitalism is an imperfect system. Humans need to take the human factor into consideration and improve upon it.

rules made by humans can be broken by humans.

 

[Skoffin]

Lesson: Oil... try not to drop that stuff.

I've heard about this but the specifics elude me, I might go check in about it before I try saying something meaningful.
But people often play the blame game before working out the solutions, people are silly creatures.

 

[Skathac]

Satya I agree that in a perfect world Capitalism would be great and indeed it is the people that fuck everything up. I guess the real problem is that there is no way to protect us from ourselves, there will always be individuals that feel like they are entitled to the whole pie and everyone else can just die in a fire.

 

[Satya]

Satya I agree that in a perfect world Capitalism would be great and indeed it is the people that fuck everything up. I guess the real problem is that there is no way to protect us from ourselves, there will always be individuals that feel like they are entitled to the whole pie and everyone else can just die in a fire.

I think it is actually the natural, "something for nothing" mentality that all humans have. If we could rid ourselves of that impulse, then we could make just about any system work.

 

[Sparkz]

That when it is not in the companies backyard they will not use as many safety measures.
That oil really likes to fuck over the environment
That even after they screwed up oil companies will try to screw the consumer (referencing the contracts they tried to get the local fishermen to sign that would allow them to help cleanup, but would also prevent them from suing them)
That complaining doesn't help, and that it sucks even more when they are not allowing people to volunteer