The Sanctity of The Confessional. | INFJ Forum

The Sanctity of The Confessional.

S

Shai Gar

Catholic Priests* are not allowed (by church dogma, jesus said nothing about priest/parishioners confessional) to say anything they hear outside of confession to anyone. This is in clear violation of state laws which make them accessories after the fact, which is a crime that has sent people, but no priests, to prison.

I believe that the "sanctity" of The Confessional will be well and truly gone, culturally, by the end of the decade. The Catholics have gone a long way to destroying it for themselves by covering up Pedastry, and now opened a floodgate to reform from outside the church by enforcement of laws to the full extent of the law.

Any Bishop who has heard of Pedastry within the church and not informed the police has become an accessory after the fact and should be punished to set examples.




*Different rules apply for Anglicans, for instance my father is supposed to urge anyone who has committed a crime to turn themselves in, however, unless it is a murder, or he feels they are likely to break the law hurting someone again, he is not allowed to tell anyone.





What are your thoughts on this?
 
When I was at university, I remember hearing about St John Nepomucene, who was killed in the 14th Century because he would not disclose the confession of a queen to the king. The priest said that the seal of the confessional would be kept even at the cost of the life of a priest.
 
I expect little change in typical pastoral practise, although some additional guidance may come concerning unique situations (assuming this is not already in place).
 
knowing a crime has been committed doesn't make you an accessory to that crime. or at least, it shouldn't.
 
Shai Gar said:
Catholic Priests* are not allowed (by church dogma, jesus said nothing about priest/parishioners confessional) to say anything they hear outside of confession to anyone. This is in clear violation of state laws which make them accessories after the fact, which is a crime that has sent people, but no priests, to prison.

I believe that the "sanctity" of The Confessional will be well and truly gone, culturally, by the end of the decade. The Catholics have gone a long way to destroying it for themselves by covering up Pedastry, and now opened a floodgate to reform from outside the church by enforcement of laws to the full extent of the law.

Any Bishop who has heard of Pedastry within the church and not informed the police has become an accessory after the fact and should be punished to set examples.




*Different rules apply for Anglicans, for instance my father is supposed to urge anyone who has committed a crime to turn themselves in, however, unless it is a murder, or he feels they are likely to break the law hurting someone again, he is not allowed to tell anyone.





What are your thoughts on this?
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there are provisions in laws that say that priests are allowed to withhold something told to them in a confessional.
 
May said:
knowing a crime has been committed doesn't make you an accessory to that crime. or at least, it shouldn't.
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You get raped and cut up, the rapist tells me, I do nothing, not even inform the police... It's all good, nothing to worry about.


WRONG, failure to inform the police about a crime is Illegal. The seal of the confessional, should either not exist, or every atheist should have it, as we are our own "priests".
 
I agree with Shai Gar on the 'sanctity of the confessional'. There's no sanctity there. Certainly no more sanctity than there is in the Catholic, Muslim, and Hindu tendency to keep bits of dead people around to wave at their followers as signs that God is there and listening when they talk to the ceiling.

People do need a place to confess themselves and purge their guilt and insecurities without fear of reprisal for some actions. To keep a group so badly corrupted as the priesthood for this purpose might be putting the foxes in with the chickens.

People need solid spiritual guidance and as has been seen over the last few years, all that's required to be a priest is dedication, piety to one's elders, and the capacity to keep your mouth shut. These traits take a lot less effort than sanity, self control, and honest self appraisal.
 
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actually, I find the latter abilities easier than the former...
 
You'd think they would be easier but apparently they're tough things for a lot of people. Still, there's living in a culture of fear and living in a culture of discovery and once immersed in a fearful culture, things like piety become suddenly preferable to discovering just how deep the rabbit holes of deceit and self denial go.
 
WRONG, failure to inform the police about a crime is Illegal. The seal of the confessional, should either not exist, or every atheist should have it, as we are our own "priests".
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Doesn't seem like a bad idea, but what would you call it?
 
The Law of The Right of Privacy and of Secrets.

Otherwise I would abolish the Right Of Confession to all except qualified medical professionals.
 
Shai Gar said:
Catholic Priests* are not allowed (by church dogma, jesus said nothing about priest/parishioners confessional) to say anything they hear outside of confession to anyone. This is in clear violation of state laws which make them accessories after the fact, which is a crime that has sent people, but no priests, to prison.

I believe that the "sanctity" of The Confessional will be well and truly gone, culturally, by the end of the decade. The Catholics have gone a long way to destroying it for themselves by covering up Pedastry, and now opened a floodgate to reform from outside the church by enforcement of laws to the full extent of the law.

Any Bishop who has heard of Pedastry within the church and not informed the police has become an accessory after the fact and should be punished to set examples.




*Different rules apply for Anglicans, for instance my father is supposed to urge anyone who has committed a crime to turn themselves in, however, unless it is a murder, or he feels they are likely to break the law hurting someone again, he is not allowed to tell anyone.





What are your thoughts on this?
Click to expand...

Highlighted this a point to make a note, The Church as a body is not under the authority of state. If the Church rules that confessionals are private, then they have the authority to remain so. So the state can't take legal action against the body for it's decisions, they can go after the people whom commited pedastry due to the fact that they commited acts against the states inhabitants but not for refusing to give info about it which involes the Church's inhabitants.
 
Shai Gar said:
The Law of The Right of Privacy and of Secrets.

Otherwise I would abolish the Right Of Confession to all except qualified medical professionals.
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Why for the medicaly qualified?
 
the church is nothing more than a greek word for community. They are citizens of a nation and therefore subject to its laws. They are not immune simply because they belong to a private corporation who believes in a book of fiction. They are ALL subject to the same laws as ordinary people, as they are nothing more than ordinary people who band together. A RICO case could be made against them based on their conspiracy to keep Pedastry a secret.
 
Shai Gar said:
You get raped and cut up, the rapist tells me, I do nothing, not even inform the police... It's all good, nothing to worry about.


WRONG, failure to inform the police about a crime is Illegal. The seal of the confessional, should either not exist, or every atheist should have it, as we are our own "priests".
Click to expand...

just because it is the decent thing to do to tell the police doesn't make it a legal imperative. i think people should have a choice. and the build up effects of not being able to tell ANYONE without fear of punishment might actually lead to the person committing more crimes, so in that way it would actually be immoral.
 
Shai Gar said:
the church is nothing more than a greek word for community. They are citizens of a nation and therefore subject to its laws. They are not immune simply because they belong to a private corporation who believes in a book of fiction. They are ALL subject to the same laws as ordinary people, as they are nothing more than ordinary people who band together. A RICO case could be made against them based on their conspiracy to keep Pedastry a secret.
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not true, espcialy for the catholic Church whom even have their own state.
 
The confessional is a handy tool for the predators out there. They know the sins of the mother and father, weaknesses and vulnerabilities of the family - made it easier to pick their targets and have some leverage if things went sour.
 
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the "state" of vatican city has not been recognised by the United nations therefore it is not an official nation.

Also, may, you are falling victim to the INTP belief of utopic laws being able to replace current ones.
 
Shai Gar said:
What are your thoughts on this?
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My thoughts on this are that unfortunately some of the modern societies (not really the most advanced though) are still full of people more interested in crucifying anybody for anything, or torturing anybody, just for the sake of the act of punishing another human - and don't really care about justice at all, but pretend and keep inventing "evil", in order to justify their blood-thirst. (that's a long sentence, isn't it, i'm too lazy to break it up) They also don't realize how this teaches next generations to learn the same fears, and to imitate the crimes they have been so intimidated with, from art, from media, during childhood. This whole culture of cruelty and fear is totally artificially invented, and unnecessary. The more bugbears to be afraid of, the more growing up to become bugbears.
 
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