The Sanctity of The Confessional. | INFJ Forum

The Sanctity of The Confessional.

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Shai Gar, Apr 12, 2010.

Share This Page

Watchers:
This thread is being watched by 3 users.
More threads by Shai Gar
  1. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    Catholic Priests* are not allowed (by church dogma, jesus said nothing about priest/parishioners confessional) to say anything they hear outside of confession to anyone. This is in clear violation of state laws which make them accessories after the fact, which is a crime that has sent people, but no priests, to prison.

    I believe that the "sanctity" of The Confessional will be well and truly gone, culturally, by the end of the decade. The Catholics have gone a long way to destroying it for themselves by covering up Pedastry, and now opened a floodgate to reform from outside the church by enforcement of laws to the full extent of the law.

    Any Bishop who has heard of Pedastry within the church and not informed the police has become an accessory after the fact and should be punished to set examples.




    *Different rules apply for Anglicans, for instance my father is supposed to urge anyone who has committed a crime to turn themselves in, however, unless it is a murder, or he feels they are likely to break the law hurting someone again, he is not allowed to tell anyone.





    What are your thoughts on this?
     
  2. Flavus Aquila

    Flavus Aquila Finding My Place in the Sun
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Threads:
    323
    Messages:
    10,047
    Featured Threads:
    49
    Likes Received:
    5,605
    Trophy Points:
    1,102
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Australia
    MBTI:
    INTJ - A
    Enneagram:
    10000
    When I was at university, I remember hearing about St John Nepomucene, who was killed in the 14th Century because he would not disclose the confession of a queen to the king. The priest said that the seal of the confessional would be kept even at the cost of the life of a priest.
     
  3. randomsomeone

    randomsomeone Well-known member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Threads:
    8
    Messages:
    2,145
    Likes Received:
    308
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    I expect little change in typical pastoral practise, although some additional guidance may come concerning unique situations (assuming this is not already in place).
     
  4. TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Threads:
    245
    Messages:
    9,350
    Featured Threads:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2,217
    Trophy Points:
    966
    MBTI:
    ^.^
    Enneagram:
    .
    knowing a crime has been committed doesn't make you an accessory to that crime. or at least, it shouldn't.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  5. NaeturVindur

    NaeturVindur Cuddlemaster
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2008
    Threads:
    86
    Messages:
    3,686
    Likes Received:
    265
    Trophy Points:
    641
    MBTI:
    iNfj
    Enneagram:
    9w1
    there are provisions in laws that say that priests are allowed to withhold something told to them in a confessional.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  6. OP
    Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    You get raped and cut up, the rapist tells me, I do nothing, not even inform the police... It's all good, nothing to worry about.


    WRONG, failure to inform the police about a crime is Illegal. The seal of the confessional, should either not exist, or every atheist should have it, as we are our own "priests".
     
  7. Chessie

    Chessie Community Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2010
    Threads:
    134
    Messages:
    508
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INfJ
    I agree with Shai Gar on the 'sanctity of the confessional'. There's no sanctity there. Certainly no more sanctity than there is in the Catholic, Muslim, and Hindu tendency to keep bits of dead people around to wave at their followers as signs that God is there and listening when they talk to the ceiling.

    People do need a place to confess themselves and purge their guilt and insecurities without fear of reprisal for some actions. To keep a group so badly corrupted as the priesthood for this purpose might be putting the foxes in with the chickens.

    People need solid spiritual guidance and as has been seen over the last few years, all that's required to be a priest is dedication, piety to one's elders, and the capacity to keep your mouth shut. These traits take a lot less effort than sanity, self control, and honest self appraisal.
     
    muir likes this.
  8. OP
    Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    actually, I find the latter abilities easier than the former...
     
  9. Chessie

    Chessie Community Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2010
    Threads:
    134
    Messages:
    508
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INfJ
    You'd think they would be easier but apparently they're tough things for a lot of people. Still, there's living in a culture of fear and living in a culture of discovery and once immersed in a fearful culture, things like piety become suddenly preferable to discovering just how deep the rabbit holes of deceit and self denial go.
     
  10. OP
    Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    yep, the religious are a fearful lot.
     
  11. Jack

    Jack Community Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Threads:
    14
    Messages:
    584
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    160
    MBTI:
    ENTP
    Doesn't seem like a bad idea, but what would you call it?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  12. OP
    Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    The Law of The Right of Privacy and of Secrets.

    Otherwise I would abolish the Right Of Confession to all except qualified medical professionals.
     
  13. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2009
    Threads:
    263
    Messages:
    5,241
    Likes Received:
    669
    Trophy Points:
    667
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Florida man
    MBTI:
    wiblywobly
    Enneagram:
    timeywimey
    Highlighted this a point to make a note, The Church as a body is not under the authority of state. If the Church rules that confessionals are private, then they have the authority to remain so. So the state can't take legal action against the body for it's decisions, they can go after the people whom commited pedastry due to the fact that they commited acts against the states inhabitants but not for refusing to give info about it which involes the Church's inhabitants.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  14. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2009
    Threads:
    263
    Messages:
    5,241
    Likes Received:
    669
    Trophy Points:
    667
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Florida man
    MBTI:
    wiblywobly
    Enneagram:
    timeywimey
    Why for the medicaly qualified?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  15. OP
    Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    the church is nothing more than a greek word for community. They are citizens of a nation and therefore subject to its laws. They are not immune simply because they belong to a private corporation who believes in a book of fiction. They are ALL subject to the same laws as ordinary people, as they are nothing more than ordinary people who band together. A RICO case could be made against them based on their conspiracy to keep Pedastry a secret.
     
  16. TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Threads:
    245
    Messages:
    9,350
    Featured Threads:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2,217
    Trophy Points:
    966
    MBTI:
    ^.^
    Enneagram:
    .
    just because it is the decent thing to do to tell the police doesn't make it a legal imperative. i think people should have a choice. and the build up effects of not being able to tell ANYONE without fear of punishment might actually lead to the person committing more crimes, so in that way it would actually be immoral.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  17. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2009
    Threads:
    263
    Messages:
    5,241
    Likes Received:
    669
    Trophy Points:
    667
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Florida man
    MBTI:
    wiblywobly
    Enneagram:
    timeywimey
    not true, espcialy for the catholic Church whom even have their own state.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  18. sumone

    sumone down the rabbit hole

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Threads:
    67
    Messages:
    3,866
    Likes Received:
    222
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    infj
    The confessional is a handy tool for the predators out there. They know the sins of the mother and father, weaknesses and vulnerabilities of the family - made it easier to pick their targets and have some leverage if things went sour.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    acd likes this.
  19. OP
    Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    the "state" of vatican city has not been recognised by the United nations therefore it is not an official nation.

    Also, may, you are falling victim to the INTP belief of utopic laws being able to replace current ones.
     
  20. enfp can be shy

    enfp can be shy people vs the bad people?
    Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    Threads:
    36
    Messages:
    2,538
    Likes Received:
    288
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    enfp
    Enneagram:
    -
    My thoughts on this are that unfortunately some of the modern societies (not really the most advanced though) are still full of people more interested in crucifying anybody for anything, or torturing anybody, just for the sake of the act of punishing another human - and don't really care about justice at all, but pretend and keep inventing "evil", in order to justify their blood-thirst. (that's a long sentence, isn't it, i'm too lazy to break it up) They also don't realize how this teaches next generations to learn the same fears, and to imitate the crimes they have been so intimidated with, from art, from media, during childhood. This whole culture of cruelty and fear is totally artificially invented, and unnecessary. The more bugbears to be afraid of, the more growing up to become bugbears.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #20 enfp can be shy, Apr 13, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2010

Share This Page