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The REAL cost of education

Skarekrow

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Jan 9, 2012
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The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much



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BOULDER, Colo. – ONCE upon a time in America, baby boomers paid for college with the money they made from their summer jobs.
Then, over the course of the next few decades, public funding for higher education was slashed.

These radical cuts forced universities to raise tuition year after year, which in turn forced the millennial generation to take on crushing educational debt loads, and everyone lived unhappily ever after.

This is the story college administrators like to tell when they’re asked to explain why, over the past 35 years, college tuition at public universities has nearly quadrupled, to $9,139 in 2014 dollars.

It is a fairy tale in the worst sense, in that it is not merely false, but rather almost the inverse of the truth.

The conventional wisdom was reflected in a recent National Public Radio series on the cost of college. “So it’s not that colleges are spending more money to educate students,” Sandy Baum of the Urban Institute told NPR. “It’s that they have to get that money from someplace to replace their lost state funding – and that’s from tuition and fees from students and families.”

In fact, public investment in higher education in America is vastly larger today, in inflation-adjusted dollars, than it was during the supposed golden age of public funding in the 1960s.

Such spending has increased at a much faster rate than government spending in general.
For example, the military’s budget is about 1.8 times higher today than it was in 1960, while legislative appropriations to higher education are more than 10 times higher.

In other words, far from being caused by funding cuts, the astonishing rise in college tuition correlates closely with a huge increase in public subsidies for higher education.

If over the past three decades car prices had gone up as fast as tuition, the average new car would cost more than $80,000.

Some of this increased spending in education has been driven by a sharp rise in the percentage of Americans who go to college.

While the college-age population has not increased since the tail end of the baby boom, the percentage of the population enrolled in college has risen significantly, especially in the last 20 years.

Enrollment in undergraduate, graduate and professional programs has increased by almost 50 percent since 1995.
As a consequence, while state legislative appropriations for higher education have risen much faster than inflation, total state appropriations per student are somewhat lower than they were at their peak in 1990. (Appropriations per student are much higher now than they were in the 1960s and 1970s, when tuition was a small fraction of what it is today.)

As the baby boomers reached college age, state appropriations to higher education skyrocketed, increasing more than fourfold in today’s dollars, from $11.1 billion in 1960 to $48.2 billion in 1975.

By 1980, state funding for higher education had increased a mind-boggling 390 percent in real terms over the previous 20 years.
This tsunami of public money did not reduce tuition: quite the contrary.

For example, when I was an undergraduate at the University of Michigan in 1980, my parents were paying more than double the resident tuition that undergraduates had been charged in 1960, again in inflation-adjusted terms.

And of course tuition has kept rising far faster than inflation in the years since: Resident tuition at Michigan this year is, in today’s dollars, nearly four times higher than it was in 1980.

State appropriations reached a record inflation-adjusted high of $86.6 billion in 2009.
They declined as a consequence of the Great Recession, but have since risen to $81 billion.

And these totals do not include the enormous expansion of the federal Pell Grant program, which has grown, in today’s dollars, to $34.3 billion per year from $10.3 billion in 2000.

It is disingenuous to call a large increase in public spending a “cut,” as some university administrators do, because a huge programmatic expansion features somewhat lower per capita subsidies.

Suppose that since 1990 the government had doubled the number of military bases, while spending slightly less per base.
A claim that funding for military bases was down, even though in fact such funding had nearly doubled, would properly be met with derision.

Interestingly, increased spending has not been going into the pockets of the typical professor.
Salaries of full-time faculty members are, on average, barely higher than they were in 1970.

Moreover, while 45 years ago 78 percent of college and university professors were full time, today half of postsecondary faculty members are lower-paid part-time employees, meaning that the average salaries of the people who do the teaching in American higher education are actually quite a bit lower than they were in 1970.

By contrast, a major factor driving increasing costs is the constant expansion of university administration.
According to the Department of Education data, administrative positions at colleges and universities grew by 60 percent between 1993 and 2009, which Bloomberg reported was 10 times the rate of growth of tenured faculty positions.

Even more strikingly, an analysis by a professor at California Polytechnic University, Pomona, found that, while the total number of full-time faculty members in the C.S.U. system grew from 11,614 to 12,019 between 1975 and 2008, the total number of administrators grew from 3,800 to 12,183 – a 221 percent increase.

The rapid increase in college enrollment can be defended by intellectually respectable arguments.
Even the explosion in administrative personnel is, at least in theory, defensible.

On the other hand, there are no valid arguments to support the recent trend toward seven-figure salaries for high-ranking university administrators, unless one considers evidence-free assertions about “the market” to be intellectually rigorous.

What cannot be defended, however, is the claim that tuition has risen because public funding for higher education has been cut.
Despite its ubiquity, this claim flies directly in the face of the facts.

Paul F. Campos is a law professor at the University of Colorado, Boulder, and the author of “Don’t Go to Law School (Unless).”

This is what you get for letting the colleges become privately managed.
So, big surprise…we are getting gouged from the top of the system down….who fell asleep at the wheel?
I guess it was fine to let the system fall to shit since you got your education already?

I thought that it was worth sharing and getting some other points of view.
I know this mainly pertains to the US but please feel free to rub it in our collective faces if education in your country is awesome.
Are we truly creating a workforce who is educated, or are we creating (several now) generations of debtors with degrees that mean nothing?
Are we just reinforcing the circle of poverty?
Is our education system teaching critical thinking skills, or are we teaching our kids how to be good workers bees at a job one day?
Should college be free to all who wish to attend?
 
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As many of you know I am not an american so I cannot voice my opinion on your system.
However whilst I refrain from mentioning where I live currently and have been raised, those of you who wish to know can always ask me privately.
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In my country educational costs are covered up until college, and university. for which you can get a "cheap" loan but you still end up paying a hefty sum.
The quality of education before college / university however has been entirely ruined by the interference of politics.
Honestly it's so bad that I would recommend getting home schooled.
 
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In my country things are worse, or at the same level than in the USA. Universities are way too expensive, and it's imposible to cover the costs right away. Let alone the quality of most of them, which is, at least, doubtful. Most universities here are in private hands for the most part unfortunetly.
I'm still paying my credit debt, even though there has been three years since i left college, and i only spent one fucking year, and i'm from a middle-high class (monetarily/income speaking) background. Made my mind long ago that college wasn't an option for me, however that's whole other subject and there are many other personal reasons.

However, i don't really know if college should be free for all, i think the costs should certainly be reduced anyway. Mainly because the situation now is ridiculous.
 
In my country things are worse, or at the same level than in the USA. Universities are way too expensive, and it's imposible to cover the costs right away. Let alone the quality of most of them, which is, at least, doubtful. Most universities here are in private hands for the most part unfortunetly.
I'm still paying my credit debt, even though there has been three years since i left college, and i only spent one fucking year, and i'm from a middle-high class (monetarily/income speaking) background. Made my mind long ago that college wasn't an option for me, however that's whole other subject and there are many other personal reasons.

However, i don't really know if college should be free for all, i think the costs should certainly be reduced anyway. Mainly because the situation now is ridiculous.

If not free college then at least some sort of apprenticing programs to learn a trade should be made easily available.
Welding…carpentry…etc.
 
If not free college then at least some sort of apprenticing programs to learn a trade should be made easily available.
Welding…carpentry…etc.

Vocational schools are in fact free, or nearly so, for many people. Out of boredom I attended beauty school at a state vocational school, which included programs for such things as welding, barbering, LPN, drafting and much more. The poor students, and that was most people there, hardly needed to pay a dime. It was a great program, and I am glad to know these schools exist. I think people stuck in a pie in the sky idea of free 4 year humanities education for all, have possibly not taken the time to examine the options that actually exist for people who wish to learn a trade and better themselves.
 
Vocational schools are in fact free, or nearly so, for many people. Out of boredom I attended beauty school at a state vocational school, which included programs for such things as welding, barbering, LPN, drafting and much more. The poor students, and that was most people there, hardly needed to pay a dime. It was a great program, and I am glad to know these schools exist. I think people stuck in a pie in the sky idea of free 4 year humanities education for all, have possibly not taken the time to examine the options that actually exist for people who wish to learn a trade and better themselves.

I agree that a lot of people do not take the time to examine the options that actually exist.
Most people these days still do not know what they want when they are half way done with their degrees.
Like if people take the time and effort I can try and help them figure it out early but most of them just think "I'll figure it out during college".
Even though your choice of college might help you get to where you want to go in life by having a curriculum with classes in relevant subjects.
But these days it's like people are afraid to dream, everything needs to be right now and they no longer plan towards something over the course of several years.

Personally, I would love to take up additional courses in things like welding, metal working, woodworking and such. I highly believe that a digital skill set combined with a fabrication/craft skill set, offers the most stability these days. You will always be able to land a job or odd jobs with them. I cannot say as much for most of the non creative (Coding incl in creative as you fabricate something too) desk jobs. With each program written, more is automated and people loose their job. Robots replace men and women in fabrication too, yet there is always work for them in repair, custom jobs or as self fabricating artisans.

I also feel very sorry for people who do not know exactly what they want or realize that they want to do a study in which pretty much anyone can tell them its impossible to land a job because of the see number of people doing that job and graduating each year. Jobs that are dying out because for example really most of the people who truly need them don't have the money or will left to seek them out. It pays to be flexible and have a large skill set these days. The job market is too unstable these days to allow the vast majority of people to learn only one or two skills. I honestly think it is a shame that schools do not change their rhetoric towards what is most viable for the next 10-20 years for their graduates.

Right now, regardless of where you live, schools have have a curriculum that follows what was best in the times of its teachers or even more distant pasts, but not what is best for the near future. They instill this mindset on their students, and then the majority of their students ends up taking courses in things that will give them neither the money or the high job demand they wished for. Talk with waiters, store clerks, secretaries and other staff of the less paying jobs sometimes.

You will realize they aren't there because they are unintelligent or unpleasant people, but because there simply is no work to be found for the things they spend time and money to learn. (and don't you wonder why people still studying something never find a side job relevant to or inside their field of study? If there really was such high demand for those jobs, then there would be companies lined up to snatch students away for side and summer jobs and possibly a future career with them upon completion of their education)

That is in my opinion a failure of the educational system and the lies of educational institutions that lay behind their ineffectiveness and their costs not being worth the effort in the majority of cases. Because if the studies they offered were as relevant and its graduates in as high demand as they make them out to be, then honestly they would not leave graduates with long study debts.

That said, being poor is no excuse to not getting an education in a useful skill set. The military offers a plenitude of amazing programs that result in useful degrees and a salary, all they ask for is a few years of paid service. Hell your ancestors did a lot of years of unpaid service for less. I think it's kinda sad that people have come to this point of expecting everything to be handed to them on a silver platter, including their ideas of what they want in life because they're too damned lazy to dream, write down their shit and then figure out if any of it isn't actually possible.

How can someone expect to wake up one morning and suddenly know what they want to do, and then to become proficient at that profession without putting the effort in. Even though sometimes you need to sacrifice something to gain something, as long as there is a will, there is a way... I wish I didn't feel like the last person on earth to realize that.


*cough Sorry people I kinda went off topic with this reply as it triggered this huge block of text ^^"
I think in a way though it is still very relevant, because the cost of education is something that I believe should equal what you get out of it, and in most cases that is not much.
 
Vocational schools are in fact free, or nearly so, for many people. Out of boredom I attended beauty school at a state vocational school, which included programs for such things as welding, barbering, LPN, drafting and much more. The poor students, and that was most people there, hardly needed to pay a dime. It was a great program, and I am glad to know these schools exist. I think people stuck in a pie in the sky idea of free 4 year humanities education for all, have possibly not taken the time to examine the options that actually exist for people who wish to learn a trade and better themselves.

Those Vocational certs aren't worth the paper they're printed on. I can speak form first hand experience on that. Me saying I went to Blah Blah Blah school to study Blah Blah Blah made no difference. Me saying I have a universally recognized I.T. certification or 3, on the other hand, landed me a job. The actual school I went to for that certification was worthless, the only thing that made a difference was my passing score for the Microsoft and CompTIA tests. I could have saved some money and learned the same thing from a book, but I had some free time and tend to prefer classrooms.

The only thing the other vocational programs do are introduce people to a field and establish some networks in the field. Most of the careers they teach don't actually require the schools; you don't need carpentry school to be a carpenter, you need an apprenticeship. The only thing the school may do is introduce you to the trade, but the same thing would happen if you knew a friend of a friend who knew a guy. The schools just try to leech money out of you, or the government (the poor students) in the process.

None of them compare to an actual university. A degree from a university is actually worth, at least, the effort you put into earning it. It (can) mean something and it (can) get you a substantial career afterwards. Anyone attending one of those trade schools would also do themselves good by earning a college degree in that same field while they're at it. I can't even get a job in IT anymore since my BA wasn't in MIS/IT, which every single job now requires.
 
I think it is because education is a tool, not a means. Having worked at a university for over a decade I noticed that a lot of students approach learning as an objective...I've done this and now it's done, gimmie. The means is your own efforts and sometimes luck.

College is not a magical pancea...it's historic roots lie in finding something useful for wealthy kids to do before breeding heirs.
 
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Education has become a business; the corporatocracy put a dollar sign on everything

It trains people to be cogs in their corporate system and it gets them in a lot of debt in the process so that they are then financially tied to the system

education should be free and available to all and it should encourage free thought and creativity
 
Those Vocational certs aren't worth the paper they're printed on. I can speak form first hand experience on that. Me saying I went to Blah Blah Blah school to study Blah Blah Blah made no difference. Me saying I have a universally recognized I.T. certification or 3, on the other hand, landed me a job. The actual school I went to for that certification was worthless, the only thing that made a difference was my passing score for the Microsoft and CompTIA tests. I could have saved some money and learned the same thing from a book, but I had some free time and tend to prefer classrooms.

The only thing the other vocational programs do are introduce people to a field and establish some networks in the field. Most of the careers they teach don't actually require the schools; you don't need carpentry school to be a carpenter, you need an apprenticeship. The only thing the school may do is introduce you to the trade, but the same thing would happen if you knew a friend of a friend who knew a guy. The schools just try to leech money out of you, or the government (the poor students) in the process.

None of them compare to an actual university. A degree from a university is actually worth, at least, the effort you put into earning it. It (can) mean something and it (can) get you a substantial career afterwards. Anyone attending one of those trade schools would also do themselves good by earning a college degree in that same field while they're at it. I can't even get a job in IT anymore since my BA wasn't in MIS/IT, which every single job now requires.

Not true, I know people who are making a very good living in things like Heating & Cooling, Cosmetology and Welding. In fact, the trade school I attended had no carpentry program. I don't know where you got that one! Maybe some programs are more useful than others, but your blanket statement is just wrong. "An actual university" is not possible for everyone, nor is necessary for the A/C guy or the hair stylist. And my hair stylist makes bank, by the way. And yes, you do need such state approved programs in order to take many licensing exams that are required in many vocations. LPN, Massage Therapist, dental hygienists Heating & Cooling, Cosmetology, Barbering, Esthetics, Medical Assistant, these are all largely regulated by states, and they all require graduating from approved state programs in order to qualify to take their respective board. Perhaps IT is quite different, but the long and short is that a 4 year (or even 2 year higher education is not for everyone). Schools that teach trades so that students can qualify for state boards are valuable. And these schools don't just "leach money out of you." Private, for profit ones have that potential (I am thinking particularly of the schools that heavily advertise on television, and seem to have a proliferation of Billing and Coding programs). But there are many state and federally funded vocational schools, which are practically free. I would say my English BA (from a prestigious university) was a bigger scam that my beauty school certification!
 
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There's money to be had in vocations, especially if you get in with a union.
 
Not true, I know people who are making a very good living in things like Heating & Cooling, Cosmetology and Welding. In fact, the trade school I attended had no carpentry program. I don't know where you got that one! Maybe some programs are more useful than others, but your blanket statement is just wrong. "An actual university" is not possible for everyone, nor is necessary for the A/C guy or the hair stylist. And my hair stylist makes bank, by the way. And yes, you do need such state approved programs in order to take many licensing exams that are required in many vocations. LPN, Massage Therapist, dental hygienists Heating & Cooling, Cosmetology, Barbering, Esthetics, Medical Assistant, these are all largely regulated by states, and they all require graduating from approved state programs in order to qualify to take their respective board. Perhaps IT is quite different, but the long and short is that a 4 year (or even 2 year higher education is not for everyone). Schools that teach trades so that students can qualify for state boards are valuable. And these schools don't just "leach money out of you." Private, for profit ones have that potential (I am thinking particularly of the schools that heavily advertise on television, and seem to have a proliferation of Billing and Coding programs). But there are many state and federally funded vocational schools, which are practically free. I would say my English BA (from a prestigious university) was a bigger scam that my beauty school certification!


My reply got deleted when I accidentally hit the "back" button *doh* so here's a brief version.

As of the vocational schools, I meant the actually completion of the school is worthless. They teach many of the same things you can already find online or in the library, only they charge thousands for their courses, while an online version may only cost a hundred or so. Part of that is because they are for-profit companies and get government grants based on their student population and (at least 20 years ago when I went co college) there's at least one grant our government offers to first-time students that can range up to a couple thousand dollars Pell grant or something like that I believe. So even poor students can for over their grant money to these schools that teach the same things an online course does.

Saying you studied this course at this school isn't worth the cost of ink to print it on your resume. The universally recognized certification you earn after taking an industry-test, however, is worth it's weight. But that certification doesn't require a vocational school in order to complete; it just requires studying and possibly an apprenticeship. HVAC, for instance is one of those - requires testing and 100+ hours of training but there's no specific school requirement.

Another point I was going to bring up, you mentioned about people expecting 4 year degrees... You know the phrase about the weak link in a chain, right? How can we expect to progress with anything if we intentionally let our population be uneducated?

Even our government knows the advantages... and disadvantages of an educated population. We went through great lengths to "rescue" scientists from German occupation in WWII and race the Russians to it after WWII. They served to advance military projects and technology - The Manhattan Project for instance. The contributions of those educated people helped advance our country, for better or for worse.

On the other hand, our government also wants to make sure that ONLY the right people receive that education. If they have an educated population that operates outside of their interests, then we start having people questioning them and conspiracies ensue along with scandals.

Our entire public education system is designed to keep people "in line". It teaches conformity and penalizes students who think outside of those restrictions. They label people with disorders such as ADD and Dyslexia that then stays with them like a stigma through their educational careers and keeps them in doubt of their own potential. It takes people with naturally scientific minds, or creative minds and forces them to learn and pass subjects they have no interest in, giving the Math student a Language Arts course and telling them it weighs the same on their report card as their Math courses do, for instance. It places students in situations which are designed to make them fail to achieve their potential.

The types that do well and graduate with honors, are the types our government want to do well and advance in society. They likely won't grow up to question what they see or hear since they've been conditioned to follow.

Alternatives to this system are ridiculed and sidelined as "cooky" or "ineffective". Montessori, for instance has proven results but is never fully given any credit by mainstream sources since it doesn't follow the traditional pattern. Home schoolers are viewed as religious fanatical nut-jobs that want to shelter their kids from reality, even though the students tend to score higher on tests and in college then their mainstream school counterparts.

College then raises the bar for conformity, not by brainwashing, but by forced servitude. After graduating, it's easy to rack up an $80 thousand debt. Logic then says, well, I already have this large of a debt, might as well keep going, and then they go to grad school. By the time a person earns a PhD or equivalent, they're easily $200k in debt. A person that far in debt isn't going to make waves or raise questions, the only thing they want to do is pay off that debt. Which is a good way to keep someone with a JD, for instance, from working pro-bono cases that challenge societal norms.

If people who didn't fit this mold were given a chance to excel and advance through the education system, the government would lose some of its control of the population as they would have several educated, debt-free, free-thinkers swelling their ranks.
 
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College then raises the bar for conformity, not by brainwashing, but by forced servitude. After graduating, it's easy to rack up an $80 thousand debt. Logic then says, well, I already have this large of a debt, might as well keep going, and then they go to grad school. By the time a person earns a PhD or equivalent, they're easily $200k in debt. A person that far in debt isn't going to make waves or raise questions, the only thing they want to do is pay off that debt. Which is a good way to keep someone with a JD, for instance, from working pro-bono cases that challenge societal norms.

If people who didn't fit this mold were given a chance to excel and advance through the education system, the government would lose some of its control of the population as they would have several educated, debt-free, free-thinkers swelling their ranks.

Absolutely!!!!

Well said man!

Debt servitude...that's the name of the game

The system saw all the student protesters in the 1960's and it wanted to get rid of them so now it ties them into the treadmill of debt repayment to silence them
 
My reply got deleted when I accidentally hit the "back" button *doh* so here's a brief version.

As of the vocational schools, I meant the actually completion of the school is worthless. They teach many of the same things you can already find online or in the library, only they charge thousands for their courses, while an online version may only cost a hundred or so..

I'll stick to the topic here, which is why many (indeed most) lucrative vocations are regulated in some form. To take the boards, you need to graduate from a program. Do you want your dental hygienist or phlebotomist to have gained all her knowledge about how to treat your body from things she read online or in the library? These schools focus on practical experience and include journeymen/apprentice type experiences so that people can actually learn their trade.

I worked throughout my undergrad and graduate programs, and acquired no debt, by the way. It is possible. I didn't have fancy clothing, cars or phones like most kids though.
 
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I'll stick to the topic here, which is many (indeed most) lucrative vocations are regulated in some form. To take the boards, you need to graduate from a program. Do you want your dental hygienist or phlebotomist to have gained all her knowledge about how to treat your body from things she read online or in the library? These schools focus on practical experience and include journeymen/apprentice type experiences so that people can actually learn their trade.

I worked throughout my undergrad and graduate programs, and acquired no doubt, by the way. It is possible. I didn't have fancy clothing, cars or phones like most kids though.

Things have changed since then

Inflation for a start
 
I'll stick to the topic here, which is why many (indeed most) lucrative vocations are regulated in some form. To take the boards, you need to graduate from a program. Do you want your dental hygienist or phlebotomist to have gained all her knowledge about how to treat your body from things she read online or in the library? These schools focus on practical experience and include journeymen/apprentice type experiences so that people can actually learn their trade.

I worked throughout my undergrad and graduate programs, and acquired no debt, by the way. It is possible. I didn't have fancy clothing, cars or phones like most kids though.

Things have changed since then

Inflation for a start

I attended one year of Culinary Arts School before I got mixed up in the medical stuff and decided I didn’t want to be a career Chef.
After working some years as a Paramedic, I initially went back to school and got my AS in Surgical Technology…then eventually became a scrub nurse on the open heart team.
Luckily, I could go online and find a job in 5 mins knowing how to first-assist in open heart surgery.

Not that my body is in any shape to do that right now…no way could I stand there for 16 hour days sometimes…I think I would pass out from the pain.
I was finally awarded Disability just last week…which is amazing actually…they gave it to me the first time around…usually, like 98% of the time they deny the person and you have to get a lawyer to appeal and win that way…didn’t have to do any of that shit…which makes me feel justified they knew I wasn’t someone fucking over the system and was actually disabled enough that I couldn’t work as a reliable person.
Man, I have worked full-time since I was 17 before the arthritis got me…I paid into the system…it’s not like I have been on welfare my whole life doing nothing.
The reason I tell you this is because getting Social Security Disability is one of the ONLY ways to discharge your student loans (at least in the US) and I plan to take full advantage of that fact.
Because who knows…if they come up with some new treatment…I would LOVE to go back and do surgery again, I miss it so much and hate to think I will never be back in the OR suite is depressing.

Back on topic and what you were both discussing…the school I went to was a private for-profit school…but for that field of work, there was no other option besides the military and I had had enough of the Coast Guard.
I was actually quite lucky that I was able to get to where I was with only $20,000.00 debt.
And I felt really badly for the people in some of the other school programs at that college, like those going to become Medical Assistants, sorry, but you MIGHT get $12 an hour when they were paying the same amount as I was to get my certification and degree.
There is no way that they will be making enough to not feel the hurt repaying their loans…makes me fucking sick.
Our government used to invest in educating people, now they are investing in the students like cash cattle.
 
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Back on topic and what you were both discussing…the school I went to was a private for-profit school…but for that field of work, there was no other option besides the military and I had had enough of the Coast Guard.
I was actually quite lucky that I was able to get to where I was with only $20,000.00 debt.
And I felt really badly for the people in some of the other school programs at that college, like those going to become Medical Assistants, sorry, but you MIGHT get $12 an hour when they were paying the same amount as I was to get my certification and degree.
There is no way that they will be making enough to not feel the hurt repaying their loans…makes me fucking sick.
Our government used to invest in educating people, now they are investing in the students like cash cattle.

Thank you for sharing your experiences. I hear you too re the debt for $12.00/hr jobs such as in Medical Assisting. Same with things like CNA programs. I think if one wants to do something like that (and it's fair to say that a job like that may be the max level of skill some people will ever be able to reach), then it's best to not attend a private, for profit place. Luckily there are other options if one digs. I do agree chain school, profit oriented places tend to be predatory in the loans they give students for programs they price so highly, yet which ultimately pay so little. Sadly, the loans available to students for humanities programs at 4 year colleges and universities of all levels, are just as predatory if not more so.
 
Thank you for sharing your experiences. I hear you too re the debt for $12.00/hr jobs such as in Medical Assisting. Same with things like CNA programs. I think if one wants to do something like that (and it's fair to say that a job like that may be the max level of skill some people will ever be able to reach), then it's best to not attend a private, for profit place. Luckily there are other options if one digs. I do agree chain school, profit oriented places tend to be predatory in the loans they give students for programs they price so highly, yet which ultimately pay so little. Sadly, the loans available to students for humanities programs at 4 year colleges and universities of all levels, are just as predatory if not more so.

The difference between the private for-profit schools and every other college is narrowing…they are just as expensive in many cases if not more.
Even the so-called “non-profit” colleges and online colleges are silly expensive…kids are getting gouged and are trying to start a life and establish a career while taking on all this heavy debt…because statistically speaking the higher your degree the higher the income bracket…of course this isn’t always the case and really it goes to show how rigged the whole system is to gouge people. You can’t afford an education…then you get to be poor…and the stupid ass right-wing conservatives who complain about all the people on food stamps but then gut educational grants, gut education as much as possible and guess who then picks up the tab that the tax dollars of this nation used to subsidize in the 40’s 50’s 60’s and most of the 70’s that allowed someone to put themselves through college with the earnings of a part-time job?
You can’t have it both ways…you can’t gut higher education and then whine about people on government assistance.
Now if Daddy paid for a wing at Harvard, you are a shoe in…all kinds of nepotistic doors open for you…which is great because the richer you get here in the US, the fewer taxes you actually have to pay for some fucked up alternate universe backward-world reason.
 
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The difference between the private for-profit schools and every other college is narrowing…they are just as expensive in many cases if not more.
Even the so-called “non-profit” colleges and online colleges are silly expensive…kids are getting gouged and are trying to start a life and establish a career while taking on all this heavy debt…because statistically speaking the higher your degree the higher the income bracket…of course this isn’t always the case and really it goes to show how rigged the whole system is to gouge people. You can’t afford an education…then you get to be poor…and the stupid ass right-wing conservatives who complain about all the people on food stamps but then gut educational grants, gut education as much as possible and guess who then picks up the tab that the tax dollars of this nation used to subsidize in the 40’s 50’s 60’s and most of the 70’s that allowed someone to put themselves through college with the earnings of a part-time job?
You can’t have it both ways…you can’t gut higher education and then whine about people on government assistance.
Now if Daddy paid for a wing at Harvard, you are a shoe in…all kinds of nepotistic doors open for you…which is great because the richer you get here in the US, the fewer taxes you actually have to pay for some fucked up alternate universe backward-world reason.

I totally agree with you re college. But vocational schools are by definition not colleges. They are post-secondary. The credit rarely even transfers to community colleges/2 year colleges. I do stand by my original statement that affordable (and I mean nearly free) vocational schools exist. They are all over my state. But that does limit one to a vocation. Like being an LPN or being a welder. These are very attractive options for many people.

Going slightly off topic, it's fascinating to me that food stamps are revoked for anyone taking classes at a post-secondary level. As in it's a federal crime to keep your EBT credit and attend classes. I remember this being a big factor for students enrolled in the vocational school I attended. Shocking and amazing. I mean, you would think the first step to getting people off food stamps would be to allow them to pursue an education that would give them possibility at least of a living wage.
 
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