The morality of "owning" cats? (Cat owners please read) | INFJ Forum

The morality of "owning" cats? (Cat owners please read)

veryINFJ1

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Aug 13, 2015
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I am faced with a horrible situation. Tomorrow at 8am I am supposed to take my cat to the clinic to get her spayed. When I first adopted a cat I intended to get her "fixed" (even though she's not broken). But after interacting with her extensively and forming a bond with her. I've began to really question the morality of taking away another living beings right to reproduce. I also began to really question whether or not I had a wild animal living in my home. She went through her first estrus cycle last month, she was calling a lot and was more affection than normal. She was (IMO) not suitable as a long term pet. The constant calling was slightly annoying and I could tell she didn't want to be a pet either, she wanted out. She wanted to interact with other cats.

Humans are capable of believing any wacky idea. The Mayans used to sacrifice people because they believed the gods needed it for life to continue, in Salem they used to burn innocent women and accuse them of being witches, in parts of Africa there is a belief that if you have sex with an innocent child you will pass on the HIV virus and be cured forever, the list goes on... But basically my point is; people are STUPID. The problem with wacky beliefs is that when you are a member of the society that has those beliefs, you are incapable of seeing how wacky they are.

Our relationship with cats has changed dramatically over the past 50 years. The first spay and neuter clinic opened in Los Angeles in 1969. Prior to that humans rarely "fixed" their cats. Flea and tick medicine was also not as readily available and so our relationship with cats was different. We respected each other and had a mutually beneficial relationship but we were still separate. Considering that our relationship with cats dates back thousands of years, this very new phase in our relationship with the animal seems off to me. Because it takes a long time for an animal to evolve. And cats are not evolved for their current relationship with humans.

My next question is this. How many of the arguments that we make in our justification for how we treat cats are based on a common human error of mistaking a correlation with a cause. Here are a few examples;

1) When cats live as "feral" animals they live short and tough lives. This is why we need to domesticate them.
- My counter-argument for this is that ALL wild animals live short and tough lives. But they fight to survive and they still manage to reproduce. Look at the lives of wild Lions for example; only about 1 in 8 wild male Lions survive to adulthood. They are constantly battling for every meal they get and sometimes unfortunately that meal just doesn't come. I'm sure they also have their fair share of parasites as well. Why don't we start domesticating Lions too? I'll tell you why, because they are too big and would chomp our faces off. I am convinced that my domestic cat would chomp my face off too if she was big enough.

2) By spaying and neutering cats you are greatly reducing their chances of reproductive cancer.
- This seems like a desperate argument to me. I can make this argument about any body part. For example; if you cut out someones jaw it will reduce their chance of getting jaw cancer. The question is; what is the opportunity cost? Humans can't place a value on the opportunity cost because we are incapable of understanding life as experienced by a cat. Motherhood could very well be one of the most important, enjoyable, and proud moments a cat ever experiences. It might be so rewarding that it is worth a life of hardship and struggle. The easiest life does not equal the best life.

3) Million of cats are euthanized each year because people don't spay and neuter their cats.
- No, millions of cats are euthanized each year because people euthanize millions of cats each year. One female cat can give birth to 180 kittens during her lifetime. They are "induced ovulators" with a 50% chance of getting pregnant each time they have sex. One male tomcat can impregnate thousands of females per year. So basically where there is sufficient food there will be cats. There will always be a tomcat out there to pick up the slack and fill the niche.

Please keep in mind. I might be biased because I live in a tropical rainforest and the wild cats here do pretty good for themselves compared to cats that live in cities.

Please have an open mind and let me know your thoughts. I still haven't decided if I will show up tomorrow. One side of me wants to release her into the jungle and let her live wild. The other side doesn't want to because I feel like by babying her I've prevented her from learning how to survive on her own. I basically feel like I fucked up by adopting a cat that was born in the wild from wild parents.
 
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If you don't plan to have any kittens, I think it actually will increase her life span if you spay her. Tagging [MENTION=13729]Free[/MENTION] on this, as she knows more on it than I do. But it reduces the risk for reproductive cancers especially in females who don't have kittens. It's the same thing in us humans. I think a longer and healthier life is worth it, no? But it's just my opinion on the matter.
 
Animal owning is essentially slavery and mental abuse.
 
For me, rescue is the only valid reason to have a pet. I'm facing my own ethical dilemma as to whether or not I will have pets in the future. I adore cats and can't imagine being without one, but it's not about me.
 
Here is the thing. I adopted her from a shelter and she was found in a sub-tropical desert. The exact environment that she is evolved to survive in. I didn't realize it at first but I think I took an animal out of the wild. Now I have her trapped in my house and I can't let her out because if I do she will get pregnant. It's really obvious she wants out. The only way I can get her to stop wanting out is by cutting out her organs and permanently altering her hormone levels. It just seems wrong to me.

Maybe this is why cat ladies are so wacky.
 
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If you don't plan to have any kittens, I think it actually will increase her life span if you spay her. Tagging [MENTION=13729]Free[/MENTION] on this, as she knows more on it than I do. But it reduces the risk for reproductive cancers especially in females who don't have kittens. It's the same thing in us humans. I think a longer and healthier life is worth it, no? But it's just my opinion on the matter.

I understand that they have longer lifespans when they are "fixed" but I can't place value on how important kittens are to her. That's my dilemma.

If it's safer for women to have their ovaries cut out then maybe us men should put them under with a needle and then cut out their ovaries. When they wake up we can say "sorry, but the world is overpopulated with humans and if you had children they would probably live hard lives. So we took it upon ourselves to make sure you never have kids. Cheer up though, you won't be getting ovarian cancer any time soon..."
 
She will make a much better pet once you get her fixed, which is 100% the right thing to do. My dogs really enjoy their lives more now that they are not trying to mount everything in sight. And I think we have a much more humane relationship with pets now that we can treat things like parasite problems. Fleas caused the bubonic plague. There's definitely utilitarian justification for treating preventable conditions (such as parasites).
EDIT: and I wanted to add re the wild cats that do pretty well for themselves in the rain forest, I have some experience similar to that living on a tropical island off the coast of Puerto Rico for a Summer. I also noticed the cats did decently. But it was also pretty awful. They would literally kill each other in fights. And they were full of parasites like worms and fleas, which looked miserable. They also caused filth and disruption near people's homes. But all things considered, they looked pretty decently considering the warm weather and plentiful lizards to eat. But for the aforementioned reasons, the humane society there was going full throttle trying to spay/neuter these animals so that they at least wouldn't breed anymore misery and disease.
 
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Im not sure if there is anything to suggest the cat would be happier if they have kittens as opposed to not.

Remember that todays cats have been bred to make them more human friendly. Dont believe me read about lyxn. I had been thinking about getting a lyxn for a while until I read about all the work you have to do with them.

I think others have said it already. The cat will be healthier in the long run. More time to spend with you. If you do decide to do it, do it sooner than later. At some point if you wait too long she wont forget the desire to be out and about.

Oh and if she ever were to have a liter youd have to find a home for them all. Then there are the bills. Then there are all the other cats that might nit get adopted because yours got adopted instead.
:)

Oh and... dont worry about the morality of owning cats. No one ever owns a cat. They are instead owned by the cat.
 
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I don't believe in owning animals but I do believe in being companions with them. I don't think it's really right or wrong, but interfering as little as necessary might be ideal.

My cat lives here. I'm not keeping him here, this is his home. If he gets out all I do is leave the back door open and he always returns. He wants to be here and we have an agreement about how we treat each other. He talks to me and I talk back to him like a cat.
 
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I think it's silly to use the same code of conduct we use with our fellow humans with animals. Animals are obviously vastly inferior and should be treated as such. I think it's for the best that we control them as we do.

Multiply the size of your house-pets by four or five times and they'll start eating humans instead of mice.
 
I think it's silly to use the same code of conduct we use with our fellow humans with animals. Animals are obviously vastly inferior and should be treated as such. I think it's for the best that we control them as we do.

Multiply the size of your house-pets by four or five times and they'll start eating humans instead of mice.

That's weird that you feel that way. I feel the opposite about animals. I think we are vastly inferior to them. Humans are the only creature that destroy the planet they live on. I look at animals and think they have reached a level of enlightenment much higher than us. They don't fear like we do, they just live in balance and embrace their animal side. It's like they know their spirit will live forever and so they embrace their temporary animal bodies to the fullest. I feel like if I spay her I will be taking that away from her. It feels evil.

So yeah I disagree completely. I think it's very obvious that humans are vastly inferior to wild animals. We often think we are superior to them but therein lies our stupidity, it's very typical.
 
She will make a much better pet once you get her fixed, which is 100% the right thing to do. My dogs really enjoy their lives more now that they are not trying to mount everything in sight. And I think we have a much more humane relationship with pets now that we can treat things like parasite problems. Fleas caused the bubonic plague. There's definitely utilitarian justification for treating preventable conditions (such as parasites).
EDIT: and I wanted to add re the wild cats that do pretty well for themselves in the rain forest, I have some experience similar to that living on a tropical island off the coast of Puerto Rico for a Summer. I also noticed the cats did decently. But it was also pretty awful. They would literally kill each other in fights. And they were full of parasites like worms and fleas, which looked miserable. They also caused filth and disruption near people's homes. But all things considered, they looked pretty decently considering the warm weather and plentiful lizards to eat. But for the aforementioned reasons, the humane society there was going full throttle trying to spay/neuter these animals so that they at least wouldn't breed anymore misery and disease.

I totally agree. She will make a way better pet once I "fix" her.

I feel very differently about dogs. Dogs are much more domesticated than cats. Check out this cool video about dogs. This is what humans are currently trying to do to cats.

[video=youtube;aCv10_WvGxo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCv10_WvGxo[/video]
 
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I think it's silly to use the same code of conduct we use with our fellow humans with animals. Animals are obviously vastly inferior and should be treated as such. I think it's for the best that we control them as we do.

Multiply the size of your house-pets by four or five times and they'll start eating humans instead of mice.

No need to drop nukes when you can drop cats.

[video=youtube;5zVVKXT8Vi0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zVVKXT8Vi0[/video]

And seriously... when was the last time we nuked or even threatened to nuke a place because of the animals that lived there?
 
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That's weird that you feel that way. I feel the opposite about animals. I think we are vastly inferior to them. Humans are the only creature that destroy the planet they live on. I look at animals and think they have reached a level of enlightenment much higher than us. They don't fear like we do, they just live in balance and embrace their animal side. It's like they know their spirit will live forever and so they embrace their temporary animal bodies to the fullest. I feel like if I spay her I will be taking that away from her. It feels evil.

So yeah I disagree completely. I think it's very obvious that humans are vastly inferior to wild animals. We often think we are superior to them but therein lies our stupidity, it's very typical.

Yea, Voltaire had nothing on your cat.
 
I don't believe in owning animals but I do believe in being companions with them. I don't think it's really right or wrong, but interfering as little as necessary might be ideal.

My cat lives here. I'm not keeping him here, this is his home. If he gets out all I do is leave the back door open and he always returns. He wants to be here and we have an agreement about how we treat each other. He talks to me and I talk back to him like a cat.

That's pretty dope you can talk to your cat. I talk to my cat too. I don't think she understands the words but she definitely understands the energy. I let my cat out for hours, sometimes for a whole day at a time. But that changed when she became fertile. Now I keep her inside like a cuddle slave because I don't want kittens. One time I let my cat out all night and she came home with blood all over her because she got in a cat fight. I was really proud of her, I respect her a lot more now.
 
[video=youtube;Q34z5dCmC4M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q34z5dCmC4M[/video]
 
That's pretty dope you can talk to your cat. I talk to my cat too. I don't think she understands the words but she definitely understands the energy. I let my cat out for hours, sometimes for a whole day at a time. But that changed when she became fertile. Now I keep her inside like a cuddle slave because I don't want kittens. One time I let my cat out all night and she came home with blood all over her because she got in a cat fight. I was really proud of her, I respect her a lot more now.

Yeah, I don't talk to him with words, just body language. Or some times I even meow at him. I keep an eye on my cat because I don't want him to get hurt. He's just obviously happy being here, and actually volunteered to be here in the first place because when I first met him I heard meowing outside during a storm and literally I opened the door and he walked in and made himself at home. I tried to find if anyone was missing a cat but nobody claimed him and it seemed he had no intention of leaving so he's been here ever since.
 
Yeah, I don't talk to him with words, just body language. Or some times I even meow at him. I keep an eye on my cat because I don't want him to get hurt. He's just obviously happy being here, and actually volunteered to be here in the first place because when I first met him I heard meowing outside during a storm and literally I opened the door and he walked in and made himself at home. I tried to find if anyone was missing a cat but nobody claimed him and it seemed he had no intention of leaving so he's been here ever since.

You totally stole someones cat. That's tight.
 
You totally stole someones cat. That's tight.

Well the vet said he'd been outside for a while anyway and had some parasites and stuff so I figure somebody didn't want him enough. I had to pay to make him healthy again so I think that trumps any rights to him that somebody might have thought they had.