the lost wisdom

[Morgain]

I recently read the newest book of Dan Brown, "the lost symbol". The whole books is about finding the lost wisdom, the lost word. The ancient knowledge of the freemasonry. And I was really fascinated by the clue of the story. It was like it rang a bell deep inside of me.

If you haven't read it and still want to read it than stop here because I will reveal the clue.

Spoiler

the secret hides within
the kingdom of God is with you
know yourself
don't you know that you are Gods?

It is not the first time I heard this. It is the core message of all ancient mysteries. Zen, taoism, boedhism, they all say that you can't find God/happiness/ ... outside of yourself. The truth lies within. Only by listening to yourself, by meditation you'll find God and not by believing what other people tell you to believe. God is a mental energy that permeates all things. We are made of God and so we are creators. That is what enlightenment is: realizing that we are creators ourselves and then start to create consciously. If we would do that we would be able to do incredible things.

Dan Brown also says that this message also is the message of the Bible. It is the message that Jesus came to give us. The kingdom of God lies within. Those who are as children (open minded instead of prejudice) will enter the kingdom of God. That is the interpretation that mystici and gnostici gives to the bible.

what do you say?

 

[Agapooka]

I say this about the message of the Bible:

If god is love and god loves you, then love is god and love gods you. The consequence of this is that you can then love god - and then you realise that if you can love, if you love, you are, in that moment, not separate from god. If you are not separate from god, you are a part of god. See? It's just math.

The individual isn't divine if it is separated from the divine, though...


Agapooka

 

[randomsomeone]

Sounds fair enough, but I would add one fundamental thing.

Our destiny, our truth within, is that we are made for connection to God. This one thing is what truly empowers and aligns all the centeredness and creative energy within us: connection with the Divine Life. This is really what Jesus revealed to us. Review the entire story according to this...there is a lot there.

As in the garden, if we determine we can go it all on our own, that our own minds and inner capacities (wondrous as they are) are enough, self-sufficient, and whole, we will be following the very same illusion (that has been replicated endlessly). It simply does not work that way, not really.

A door is open. Our minds, our egos want to do it, accomplish it, work at it, solve it, be it. But it isn't that way, not at all. The heart...it is this that must trust, be open, be humble, receive. This is what it is all about, the crux of the matter.

 

[muir]

The kingdom of heaven is within

The matrix is self aware.....it wants to root you in the material plane

Be a warrior monk and storm the temple

 

[Morgain]

Sounds fair enough, but I would add one fundamental thing.

Our destiny, our truth within, is that we are made for connection to God. This one thing is what truly empowers and aligns all the centeredness and creative energy within us: connection with the Divine Life. This is really what Jesus revealed to us. Review the entire story according to this...there is a lot there.

As in the garden, if we determine we can go it all on our own, that our own minds and inner capacities (wondrous as they are) are enough, self-sufficient, and whole, we will be following the very same illusion (that has been replicated endlessly). It simply does not work that way, not really.

A door is open. Our minds, our egos want to do it, accomplish it, work at it, solve it, be it. But it isn't that way, not at all. The heart...it is this that must trust, be open, be humble, receive. This is what it is all about, the crux of the matter.

when you look within and connect to yourself, you'll make connection with God anyway

 

[Saru Inc]

tooo much Ne for me

 

[Morgain]

tooo much Ne for me

what does this has to do with Ne?

 

[Saru Inc]

The way you come to conclusions. its unsettling.


I don't believe that jank whatsoever, however I do like the mystery aspect.

 

[Agapooka]

I'll contribute my Ne.

It's all fine and dandy to say that the "kingdom of God lies within", but what is this "kingdom of God" you speak of?

See, if I shared what I believe, I could find a way to interpret that ambiguous statement in a manner that fits, but I'd never use those words to express them. Also, because it's so ambiguous, it can mean quite a few things and it can have hugely different interpretations, depending on how you understand "kingdom of God".

And that is the danger. I will quote Emo Phillips:

"Ambiguity - the Devil's volleyball."

Said tongue-in-cheek, mind you.

So, in conclusion: is it lost wisdom? Seeing a statement like that and trying to apply it seems like a fool's endeavour. If one were to understand why this statement is true or false, one would have a far better basis for concluding anything about it.


Agapooka

 

[Morgain]

I'll contribute my Ne.

It's all fine and dandy to say that the "kingdom of God lies within", but what is this "kingdom of God" you speak of?

See, if I shared what I believe, I could find a way to interpret that ambiguous statement in a manner that fits, but I'd never use those words to express them. Also, because it's so ambiguous, it can mean quite a few things and it can have hugely different interpretations, depending on how you understand "kingdom of God".

And that is the danger. I will quote Emo Phillips:

"Ambiguity - the Devil's volleyball."

Said tongue-in-cheek, mind you.

So, in conclusion: is it lost wisdom? Seeing a statement like that and trying to apply it seems like a fool's endeavour. If one were to understand why this statement is true or false, one would have a far better basis for concluding anything about it.


Agapooka

it is almost impossible to describe what "the kingdom of heaven" means. It is been given many descriptions and this is one from the bible. Other descriptions would be "your inner source, the god within, tao, your boedha, ..."

It is indeed a fool's endeavour to try to understand it. It is not something logical so you can't find it with your mind. You can only find it when you step out of your mind and use your intuition.

 

[Agapooka]

Attempting to understand it isn't entirely foolish. Intuition helps us to understand things (sometimes with the inability to express these things using language, although not necessarily). I'd say that applying the statement without any kind of understanding would be foolish.

Once an intuitive understanding is gained, one can attempt to express it, if they are capable of translating their intuition into words. This expression, however, is not particularly necessary for everyone, although, I do benefit from structuring my ideas with words.


Agapooka

 

[Norwich]

I believe that understanding our connectivity is of paramount importance. The best way to experience God is to look within. The divine dwells within us all. The amazing thing is, as we come to know God and ourselves better, the more easily we are able to experience our connection with others. And yes, I believe all of this can unleash a tremendous amount of creativity. In my opinion, the ego doesn't necessarily strive for connection. So as one looks within, I think it's important to recognize not all that is encountered is unbiased or particularly motivated to promote connection.

 

[randomsomeone]

when you look within and connect to yourself, you'll make connection with God anyway

This is quite true!! Still one must be aware that the mind and ego are tricky things (but still wonderful in their own functions) to navigate around/through. This happens in very, very subtle ways that could, and so often do, lead to illusion. However, I think moving through this is just part of a process. So overall, the idea that "we are Gods" is faulty and ultimately a dead end. The idea that "God is within us and imbues us with a wondrous dignity and giftedness beyond measure" is more accurate.

And I agree, this is too much to understand/control (things the mind and ego love to do). I think of it more as something, once we see it, that we participate in. We do not ever possess it, even though it can be found deep within us. Funny, isn't it?

The author in question sells book for money and is well-known for arranging information for his own purposes. No problem...he is generally writing fiction. This "secret" will sell him books (my how we love our secrets).....but the real secret has been there all along for free and it is a pity we have been so blind to it, so much so that we embrace and cleave to this blindness quite stubbornly. Rather ironic.

 

[randomsomeone]

as we come to know God and ourselves better, the more easily we are able to experience our connection with others.

Wow, this totally reminds me of cultural disposition I heard articulated among Tribal peoples, the idea is that
the "Presence of God" is in all things...in the rocks, in the river, in the trees, in the creatures....and in you and in me. Because of this a profound respect should be shown to all around us.

Now here's a kicker...I then (later in the week) went to a Catholic Mass on the reservation and the Canon of the Mass had been composed to encompass this entire concept. I was in awe at the scope and breadth these words contained. I thought, "My, if we all prayed this way the world would be an entirely different place!!"

Such an idea may seem foreign within many of the religious cultures we are familar with, but upon investigation one finds this is a major overarching theme flowing throughout, although perhaps it is less seen for some reason. It is the "inner wisdom" and it is there. It isn't even particularly a secret...why it escapes notice is beyond me!

 

[Morgain]

And I agree, this is too much to understand/control (things the mind and ego love to do). I think of it more as something, once we see it, that we participate in. We do not ever possess it, even though it can be found deep within us. Funny, isn't it?

indeed. Turning inwards is not a journey it itself. It is only stopping with turning outwards, but not really stopping because then you are still doing something "stopping to turn outwards". It is being passively aware without interfering with your mind. Not really easy

The author in question sells book for money and is well-known for arranging information for his own purposes. No problem...he is generally writing fiction. This "secret" will sell him books (my how we love our secrets).....but the real secret has been there all along for free and it is a pity we have been so blind to it, so much so that we embrace and cleave to this blindness quite stubbornly. Rather ironic.

I agree, the author may be questionable in his motives but the message is what it is and I was completely baffled when I read it. I was expecting something lame and was pleasantly surprised. The message has been given to us in so many ways throughout the centuries but we always seem to forget it or not understand it. Maybe it is not such a bad idea to put it in a best selling novel :w:

Wow, this totally reminds me of cultural disposition I heard articulated among Tribal peoples, the idea is that
the "Presence of God" is in all things...in the rocks, in the river, in the trees, in the creatures....and in you and in me. Because of this a profound respect should be shown to all around us.

yes this is totaly true!

You can "believe" in the presence of God in all things but it isn't the same as really experiencing it. From the moment you learn to turn inwards and connect with the god within, you start seeing the big picture, the connection between all things, and the presence of God in all things.

actions coming from the "believing" are forced and empty in my opinion. Actions coming from the experience are in line with "the devine plan (don't know how else to call it)"

 

[aeon]

Sounds good to me, but I think analysis of why the “symbol” has been lost is incomplete if one does not explore the various shamanic practices of the world’s perennial wisdom traditions that are based on plant-based entheogens.

It’s one thing to know the secret hides within. It’s another thing to go there.


Namaste,
Ian

 

[aeon]

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Food-Gods-Original-Knowledge-Evolution/dp/0553371304/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1300117182&sr=8-3"]Food of the Gods, by Terence McKenna[/ame]


A good read in said regard.


cheers,
Ian

 

[bickelz]

It

 

[randomsomeone]

You can "believe" in the presence of God in all things but it isn't the same as really experiencing it.

Absolutely. Even in systems where beliefs are articulated, such statements are only meant as acknowledgement of a truth, as a point of entry. Even these are generally are based on some experience at some point. Regardless, we have to enter into these truths ourselves and we are meant to to experience them in the present....now! The Divine Life is not only some abstract in a book or system of beliefs(although these can certainly amplify and open doors). The journey itself is a very personal one where, yes, community plays a role, but only insomuch as it, too, helps us on our own personal sojourn.

It

 

[Barnabas]

Dan Brown also says that this message also is the message of the Bible. It is the message that Jesus came to give us. The kingdom of God lies within. Those who are as children (open minded instead of prejudice) will enter the kingdom of God. That is the interpretation that mystici and gnostici gives to the bible.

what do you say?

Dan Brown is a new age spiritualist pretending to be a theologian and a bad one at that.