The Here-Now, Spirituality, and Se

[xizzax]

I've been wondering.....

If I tend to look back in time I could definitely see myself as an INFJ, without a doubt. But as I grew, and then found myself immersing in spirituality (as a result of overbearing stress, and idealism) I began to focus more on the NOW.

I mean, what is the NOW in terms of the MBTI? I'm sure it wouldn't be the same "now" that Se types involve themselves in...

I'm developing it, it seems. I sense myself as in 'the flow of time' and I don't give too much thought to the future. Sometimes I think ahead, but not as obsessively as I used to. Again this isn't a NATURAL development. It was something that I taught myself. I still roam in my thoughts, but I find that too much thinking DOES plague me. Once I had 'Ni overload' and kept getting thoughts, images, impressions like crazy. hahah

Basically, I want to know what you guys think about the Se flow of time, and the actual definition of NOW when it comes to spirituality. I'm sure the whole majority of the Se population hasn't already achieved this 'enlightened' state. XD

 

[IndigoSensor]

This is something I need to learn how to do, but the idea of it scares me to death.

 

[xizzax]

but it's so surprisingly liberating!

our mind is our greatest gift and detriment.

 

[IndigoSensor]

Oh trust me, I know all of this. It's complicated.

 

[VH]

Actually, the 'now' you are referring to is a blend of our extroverted functions, Fe and Se. This is what happens when we start to lean toward extroversion, which for us is caring more about the outer world than the inner world.

When we combine Ni dominance with Fe philosophical reasoning and Se here and now sensibility, an amazingly spiritual state emerges that includes an incredible amount of insight.

And yes, this is perfectly normal for our type. However, I am glad to see that you are at this place. It means you're growing into the INFJ you are supposed to be. Ideally, we INFJs should have strong Ni, Fe, Ti, and Se, but we have to use them in order to master them. Welcome to a much larger world.

 

[anica]

The Hear-Now, Spirituality, and Se

I've been wondering.....

If I tend to look back in time I could definitely see myself as an INFJ, without a doubt. But as I grew, and then found myself immersing in spirituality (as a result of overbearing stress, and idealism) I began to focus more on the NOW.

I mean, what is the NOW in terms of the MBTI? I'm sure it wouldn't be the same "now" that Se types involve themselves in...

I'm developing it, it seems. I sense myself as in 'the flow of time' and I don't give too much thought to the future. Sometimes I think ahead, but not as obsessively as I used to. Again this isn't a NATURAL development. It was something that I taught myself. I still roam in my thoughts, but I find that too much thinking DOES plague me. Once I had 'Ni overload' and kept getting thoughts, images, impressions like crazy. hahah

Basically, I want to know what you guys think about the Se flow of time, and the actual definition of NOW when it comes to spirituality. I'm sure the whole majority of the Se population hasn't already achieved this 'enlightened' state. XD

I'm not sure what you mean by the "Se flow of time," but for me staying in the NOW is definitely a spiritual matter. Ironically--or maybe it's a natural outcome of not letting my thoughts wander--I am much more focused in the NOW. This, too, did not come naturally to me, but was something I taught myself, or rather, was taught it by an entity (or part of myself?) I call the Knower. But that's a whole other story.

What is it that scares you about this concept, Indigo?

 

[randomsomeone]

Living with more awareness of "now" seems perfectly reasonable. If one has worked through issues related to the future, and has worked through the issues related to the past then yes, there is a good bit of liberation in living more in the present and actively participate in the "now."

I love it when we can work past all the layers of input related to spirituality to the point it becomes as natural as breathing....little effort, great freedom, peace, real participation. It is a wonderful discovery...and quite a journey to make!!

 

[NeverAmI]

I've been wondering.....

If I tend to look back in time I could definitely see myself as an INFJ, without a doubt. But as I grew, and then found myself immersing in spirituality (as a result of overbearing stress, and idealism) I began to focus more on the NOW.

I mean, what is the NOW in terms of the MBTI? I'm sure it wouldn't be the same "now" that Se types involve themselves in...

I'm developing it, it seems. I sense myself as in 'the flow of time' and I don't give too much thought to the future. Sometimes I think ahead, but not as obsessively as I used to. Again this isn't a NATURAL development. It was something that I taught myself. I still roam in my thoughts, but I find that too much thinking DOES plague me. Once I had 'Ni overload' and kept getting thoughts, images, impressions like crazy. hahah

Basically, I want to know what you guys think about the Se flow of time, and the actual definition of NOW when it comes to spirituality. I'm sure the whole majority of the Se population hasn't already achieved this 'enlightened' state. XD

This book interestingly lists all of the e functions as "Now" functions Fe, Se, Ne, Te.

http://books.google.com/books?id=twt29GlROowC&lpg=PA18&ots=7E4lZLhAnM&dq=extraverted sensing&pg=PA16

It also has a great description about each function.

 

[anica]

The Hear-Now, Spirituality, and Se

Living with more awareness of "now" seems perfectly reasonable. If one has worked through issues related to the future, and has worked through the issues related to the past then yes, there is a good bit of liberation in living more in the present and actively participate in the "now."

I love it when we can work past all the layers of input related to spirituality to the point it becomes as natural as breathing....little effort, great freedom, peace, real participation. It is a wonderful discovery...and quite a journey to make!!

In my experience, remaining in the NOW maintains that tension between past and present so mecessary to my spirituality.

 

[randomsomeone]

In my experience, remaining in the NOW maintains that tension between past and present so mecessary to my spirituality.

Yes, that makes sense. Another thought...sometimes I feel tethered by these and similar influences (that I embrace), so that in the present I feel I am completely suspended in space by these forces and counterforces. They are part of the creative energy of the moment, though no one would necessarily know these existed.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

I know what you mean -- that's a beautiful state of mind. I really enjoy using my Se with Ni, so long as it's a healthy state. Sometimes, I get caught too much into the present and it makes me more impulsive than I would like. When it's mastered, though, Se can contribute tremendously to our development.

 

[anica]

The Hear-Now, Spirituality, and Se

Yes, that makes sense. Another thought...sometimes I feel tethered by these and similar influences (that I embrace), so that in the present I feel I am completely suspended in space by these forces and counterforces. They are part of the creative energy of the moment, though no one would necessarily know these existed.

Exactly!

 

[Top cat]

I woke up two mornings ago in a really strange state. My mind was empty, I had to make effort to think. So I decided I wouldn't think. I was definitely living in the moment. It's a really great feeling. No past or future to burden you down. It was a shock to notice how much lighter I felt without all my thoughts, fears and past experiences weighing me down. Unfortunately I don't know what I did to get into this state.

I am trying to do this more everyday and instead of planning, I rely on my intuition to tell me whether to move forward or not. It feels like the world has become a lot more agreeable.There's really nothing in the way anymore.

The only funny thing is that I remember being a bit stunned about what I wanted to do that moment in the day. I got bored under a few minutes. I guess it's like you always have someone to talk to when you are in your head. Anyway I'm still learning.

 

[xizzax]

thanks for all the feedback guys! I'm glad to know that this is something many INFJs pay attention to..
Paradoxically, I know it would be naturally more difficult for INFJs to 'let go' than many other types because their inner world is so important.

sometimes though, I feel as though psychology can only play so big of a role, which again I'm basically saying that Se can't possibly be what living in the now is....

There is a complete detachment to the outer world, but at the same time a complete sense of inner harmony. I don't even mean on the regular level. I always wonder what gurus/masters/etc. feel like.

And Se can't possibly equate to pure CONSCIOUSNESS... which is in itself, nothing.. (can't be a function.. )

What is it to completely disidentify from yourself? (as a human and identify as consciousness)

I woke up two mornings ago in a really strange state. My mind was empty, I had to make effort to think. So I decided I wouldn't think. I was definitely living in the moment. It's a really great feeling. No past or future to burden you down. It was a shock to notice how much lighter I felt without all my thoughts, fears and past experiences weighing me down. Unfortunately I don't know what I did to get into this state

awesome! yes, very liberating feeling.. something that i constantly push at.
as a human, not as an INFJ i feel that all of us carry so much inner baggage... worries about past/future..., 'who i am', 'my friends', 'what is important to me'.... if we can just empty all that...

*reboot* X3

 

[NeverAmI]

There is a complete detachment to the outer world, but at the same time a complete sense of inner harmony. I don't even mean on the regular level. I always wonder what gurus/masters/etc. feel like.

And Se can't possibly equate to pure CONSCIOUSNESS... which is in itself, nothing.. (can't be a function.. )

Please forgive me if I misunderstand your question, but how wouldn't Se apply to the here and now? Se is the process of gathering information through your senses.

As for pure consciousness, not one single function would make that. But I think your concious state would be different depending on the circumstances that stimulate Se. I am using extremes here, but think about how your consciousness may differ between having sex, being tortured, and meditating, all of which are very much perceived through the stimulation, or lack of stimulation, of Se.

Please feel free to correct me on any misunderstandings.

 

[rainrise]

I've been wondering.....

If I tend to look back in time I could definitely see myself as an INFJ, without a doubt. But as I grew, and then found myself immersing in spirituality (as a result of overbearing stress, and idealism) I began to focus more on the NOW.

I mean, what is the NOW in terms of the MBTI? I'm sure it wouldn't be the same "now" that Se types involve themselves in...

I'm developing it, it seems. I sense myself as in 'the flow of time' and I don't give too much thought to the future. Sometimes I think ahead, but not as obsessively as I used to. Again this isn't a NATURAL development. It was something that I taught myself. I still roam in my thoughts, but I find that too much thinking DOES plague me. Once I had 'Ni overload' and kept getting thoughts, images, impressions like crazy. hahah

Basically, I want to know what you guys think about the Se flow of time, and the actual definition of NOW when it comes to spirituality. I'm sure the whole majority of the Se population hasn't already achieved this 'enlightened' state. XD

it's so wonderful that you have started this thread xizzax! i've been pondering on something quite similar and when i read your post, i immediately related to what you wrote.

like you, i have been consciously bringing my attention to the 'now' as a part of my spiritual growth. i found myself questioning also, if this state was what Se dominants experience. however, i couldn't quite put the two together as there was definately a marked difference between the two.

living in the present moment or 'now' is a deeply harmonious state that one can say almost aligns the inner world with the outer world. this was the difference i observed in comparison to the stereotypical Se dominants though it is true that Se dominants are much at one with what they are doing and the happenings around them, many of them seem to neglect the inner aspect of the present moment; seem to be almost completely subject and entwined in the outer world of sensory experience. of course, this is a generalization as mature and balanced Se dominants do exist, just like with any other type.

 

[midnightmelody]

Ah, all of this sounds so familiar. I understand what you mean by Ni overload. Because Ni is a perceiving function, it doesn't really shut out possibilities (unless Fe tells it to). Sometimes when we are in a heightened state of awareness or are attempting to solve a problem, we try to take in all of the variables at once instead in stages. I forget that I'm allowed to do things in steps, sometimes.


I agree with Indigo. Living in the here and now is incredibly scary, even if it is liberating. The cliff is often scarier than the dive.

The Ni + Fe clarity is quite possibly the most amazing experience I have had in my life thus far.

I wonder how I can develop my Se, as well. Anyways I guess I'm not contributing much to me because the fragmented thinking I am seeing is so much of what I am experiencing, so in short, I agree with pretty much everything posted.

 

[randomsomeone]

What is it to completely disidentify from yourself?

Ah, this is what the mystics "know" and can't tell. Why? Because the words mean nothing...only the experience.

 

[randomsomeone]

i feel that all of us carry so much inner baggage...

Very true, and letting go isn't really just about losing that, it is about making it irrelevant, a fundamental shift in awareness.

And it is about making room. For what? Ah, that is where the fun begins!!!!!

 

[Top cat]

randomsomeone I agree

My experience with losing all of that was that it wasn't really as great as I thought it would be
It was great, but I would call it enlightening rather than that

Definitely it's best to keep your memories, fears and experiences, horrid or not.. you got them for a reason, to learn, to become a better person. You can just remove all the energy you bring to those experiences, like you always think about them and relive them several times in a day..and in the end you just feel so exhausted and you have no energy left to actually live your present day
So the best is to decide you will learn from them, figuring out what the main lesson was and then keep it in the past and move on

Not about erasing them

What I remember thinking after the experience was that with all my thoughts gone, past experiences etc, although I felt quite free I also felt I had no direction in my life. I was quite passive and live just minute after minute.. My body was thinking it wanted to paint pictures that morning, but then something else inside me wanted to plan and weigh out options.. And the dissonance between both, that's when I woke up ^^;;
Anyway I would like to experience it again and to see if I can go with a whole day just living in the moment. It is definitely alien to me. My feeling is that I would maybe just live life the way I like and do things I like and that's where all my energy would go... and that doesn't sound bad at all. I wonder why it would be scary

What is it to completely disidentify from yourself? (as a human and identify as consciousness)

awesome! yes, very liberating feeling.. something that i constantly push at.
as a human, not as an INFJ i feel that all of us carry so much inner baggage... worries about past/future..., 'who i am', 'my friends', 'what is important to me'.... if we can just empty all that...

*reboot* X3