The future is uncertain and the end is always near...

[dang]

This thread is intended to bring into focus our collective beliefs, desires and fears concerning the future. First off, do you believe in Prophecy? Can people ever really predict the future? Do you find validity in any prophetic statements made (e.g. Biblical, Native American, Nostradamus, etc.)? Second, how do you feel about Catastrophism, or the notion that major disasters (like Noah's flood) are inevitable in the not too distant future? This is obviously connected with apocalyptic thinking and the notion of the Rapture, Armageddon, and the Four Horsemen. Thirdly, what do you think of the idea of Salvationism, or the notion that some of us will be saved or will survive, while others will perish at the mercy of disasters or even global cataclysms? I find it interesting that both the religious right and the spiritual left tend to share many of the same views on this topic (although they obviously differ on who the people chosen not to die will actually be). And finally, do you put stock in the idea (actually Jung claimed it was an archetype or universal thought form) of a future Golden Age or utopia following the previously described events occurring? Would there be a king (or Messiah), or would there be no need for leaders at all? I found this series of interrelated topics to be both very timely and challenging. While there may be those who completely dismiss all four of these ideas, I know that world wide (and on this forum) there is a great deal of variety when it comes to believing what the future has in store for us. Will things get better? Worse? One and then the other? You are welcome to draw on any belief system or theory, whether it be phsychological, political, spiritual, religious, conspiratorial, metaphysical, or other. You do not need to address all of the above. I am sure some of you could write a book on this subject as it pertains to so many different facets of modern life. Plus even if you think this whole subject is nothing but nonsense, you are certainly welcome to address why you think so many people are seduced by these ideas and what the implications are for the world. And finally, could Prophecy, Catastrophism, Salvationism, and a Golden Age be self fulfilling prophecies? If we are convinced certain events will unfold, will we as a species unconsciously create scenarios to mirror our visions? I hope this is a very probing and open minded exercise. Enjoy.

 

[dang]

I will start things off modestly by saying I am undecided. That is why I started the thread. I want to be exposed to compelling arguments and interesting ideas so I can come to my own conclusions. Is there anyone out there who is more certain than I am on this subject? Hope so.

 

[dang]

It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.

 

[ZcM4xzkjgzCjytBc]

You never know when you'll crash into a brick wall.
Except for those times you can see it in front of you.

 

[dang]

Speaking of Catastrophism, the underwhelming response to this thread is a disaster. If this thread were a natural disaster, I would have to say it most resembles a drought. Speaking of which, I'm thirsty.

 

[Deleted member 10171]

Interesting questions. Only yesterday, I was thinking about "Why do world powers decline and fall" (as you do)...perhaps you could do your own personal research and post to get the ball rolling....just a suggestion.

 

[Sinny]

Speaking of Catastrophism, the underwhelming response to this thread is a disaster. If this thread were a natural disaster, I would have to say it most resembles a drought. Speaking of which, I'm thirsty.

Sorry, I've had writers block the last couple of weeks. Can't produce more than a sentence or two.

The subject interests me greatly.

 

[brightmoon]

I am also interested but its going to take some time to compose a response. This is just not something that can be done off the cuff.

 

[Wyote]

First off, do you believe in Prophecy? Can people ever really predict the future? Do you find validity in any prophetic statements made (e.g. Biblical, Native American, Nostradamus, etc.)?

I don't believe in prophecy in some sort of mystical sense. I believe the idea of time is not well understood by humans. What we call prophecy is simply a unique way of interacting with elements of time. I do believe it is in some capacity something we are able to access. Perhaps not actual prophecy, but an observance of possibilities and an ability to influence outcomes.

Second, how do you feel about Catastrophism, or the notion that major disasters (like Noah's flood) are inevitable in the not too distant future? This is obviously connected with apocalyptic thinking and the notion of the Rapture, Armageddon, and the Four Horsemen.

Rapture is not coming. I heard people in the 80s saying rapture was tomorrow and we are still here. Cosmic and geological disasters are an inevitable however. We are not as prepared as we should be. Like Hawkings says, our best chance at continued survival is to go and populate other planets. Earth will not be around forever.

Thirdly, what do you think of the idea of Salvationism, or the notion that some of us will be saved or will survive, while others will perish at the mercy of disasters or even global cataclysms?

Nah, I think life is more complex than basic good vs evil, punished vs saved. And again, rapture is not coming so no worries.

[strike]And finally[/strike]Fourth, do you put stock in the idea (actually Jung claimed it was an archetype or universal thought form) of a future Golden Age or utopia following the previously described events occurring? Would there be a king (or Messiah), or would there be no need for leaders at all?

This has always been funny to me. Are we not already living in a pretty golden age? At what point does it occur? As soon as everyone is "well off" the perception of what "well off" means changes. There are wars and people doing some bad shit sure, but this will probably always be occurring. We would have to rid ourselves of comparison for it to work out.

And finally, could Prophecy, Catastrophism, Salvationism, and a Golden Age be self fulfilling prophecies? If we are convinced certain events will unfold, will we as a species unconsciously create scenarios to mirror our visions? I hope this is a very probing and open minded exercise. Enjoy.

Maybe.

 

[brightmoon]

[MENTION=14664]dang[/MENTION] Our view on these ideas are informed by the culture we live in and the religion you adhere to. The Christian faith has always been messianic in a linear fashion as all Abrahamic faiths are. According to ancient Hebrew belief, life takes a linear path. Christian and Jewish eschatologies view the end times as the consummation or perfection of God's creation of the world. Dharmic religions (Hinduism and Buddhism) view eschatology as cyclical. I'd also put the pagans as cyclical believers. The cyclical view tends to believe that are cycles birth, growth, decay, and renewal at the individual level finds its echo in the cosmic order. Also the cyclical believers tend to believe in reincarnation and the linear ones think there is only one shot at life.

It is natural as you put that both the religious right and spiritual left should adhere to the beliefs you describe as they are central to the Christian faith and what you describing is the linear progression Rapture, Armageddon, the Four Horsemen, Salvationism, culminating in a Golden Age or Utopia. I am a more inclined to believe in the cyclical view because it seems to make sense to me. There are stages in life, in the seasons, and ultimately in the universe. We live through certain natural stages of birth, growth, decay, and rebirth in my view.

All major religions believe that are living in a degenerate age (the Hindu call this the Kali Yuga) but this is likely a method to unify the believers. Extreme examples of this impeding apocalypse are found in doomsday cults, Could these be self fulfilling prophesies? Yes quite possibly and they do colour the reality of the faithful. Dogmatic belief in any specific prophesies or specific prediction of what the future holds is counter productive and even dangerous. Rather than trying to figure out the future and what it holds we should concentrate on living in the present, the only true to way to ensure the future will be one worth living in.

 

[just me]

Few people have seen or heard things we should take notice of and judge for ourselves. Many are called, but few are chosen. I'll wear my life jacket. Wore it long enough to feel comforted with it.

In but a moment: in the twinkling of an eye, life as we know it could change. I will rather focus on this.

 

[dang]

Sorry, I've had writers block the last couple of weeks. Can't produce more than a sentence or two.

The subject interests me greatly.

Please rescue this thread. I have faith in you. Please.

 

[brightmoon]

What scares me is people in power who hold such apocalyptic beliefs.

After the terror attack on the Marines in Beirut in 1984 according to Thomas Dine, executive director of the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee, Reagan said that the night before, he had talked to parents of a Marine killed in Beirut, then went on to say:“You know, I turn back to your ancient prophets in the Old Testament and the signs foretelling Armageddon, and I find myself wondering if—if we’re the generation that is going to see that come about.“I don’t know if you’ve noted any of those prophecies lately, but, believe me, they certainly describe the times we’re going through.”

This was a man that became so mentally impaired that his wife and her astrologer were really running the White House by 1985, that's for another post.

 

[dang]

What scares me is people in power who hold such apocalyptic beliefs.

After the terror attack on the Marines in Beirut in 1984 according to Thomas Dine, executive director of the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee, Reagan said that the night before, he had talked to parents of a Marine killed in Beirut, then went on to say:“You know, I turn back to your ancient prophets in the Old Testament and the signs foretelling Armageddon, and I find myself wondering if—if we’re the generation that is going to see that come about.“I don’t know if you’ve noted any of those prophecies lately, but, believe me, they certainly describe the times we’re going through.”

This was a man that became so mentally impaired that his wife and her astrologer were really running the White House by 1985, that's for another post.

There are currently many people of power who ascribe to catastrophism and salvationism. And they influence politics, elections, diplomacy, the military, and environmentalism. It is scary.

 

[Aaron Hepi]

As Popper put it: The future, even in priciple, is unknowable. So no, I dont believe in profesy. Spirituality is not something that I can personally engage in without explaining it away into oblivion.

 

[AJ_]

This is a pretty interesting article about the Kali Yuga and the uncanny similarity between the Mayan calendar and the calendar based on the Indian Yuga cycles.

The end of the Kali Yuga in 2025: Unraveling the mysteries of the Yuga Cycle

The author goes to great lengths at the beginning of the article to introduce most of the proposals regarding the Yuga cycle, and then proposes what makes the most sense (to him) towards the end. Whether one believes it or not, the connections he makes are pretty interesting.

Snippet:

As per the ancient traditions, the descending Kali Yuga, which was referred to by Hesiod as the “Age of Heroes”, came to an end with the battle fought on the plains of Troy. The Yuga Cycle timeline indicates that the 300 year intervening period between the descending and ascending Kali Yuga extended from 976 BC – 676 BC; and very interestingly, this overlaps with the 300 year period from 1100 BC to 800 BC which is referred to by historians as the Greek Dark Ages! The archaeological evidence shows that tremendous destruction visited the Greek isles at this time. The great Mycenaean cities and palaces collapsed. Villages and towns were burnt, destroyed and abandoned. The population of the cities reduced drastically, there was widespread famine and people lived in isolated, small settlements. Such was the magnitude of the cataclysms that ancient Greeks entirely forgot the art of writing which they had to re-learn from the Phoenicians in the 8th century! The ancient trade networks were disrupted and came to a grinding halt.

 

[dang]

Is Brexit the catalyst for the apocalypse?

 

[j654dgj7]

Is Brexit the catalyst for the apocalypse?

ive just spoken to earth and its still undecided.

 

[dang]

ive just spoken to earth and its still undecided.

Stay tuned viewing audience. By the way, I think enfp is the most awesome type. You are lucky. An intuitive feeler who is both social and spontaneous can really enjoy life. I am envious.

 

[dang]

Sorry, I've had writers block the last couple of weeks. Can't produce more than a sentence or two.

The subject interests me greatly.

Still awaiting your contribution. No need to write a book either. Perhaps simply an outline for a future book.