The Ethics of Strip Clubs

[aerosol]

Yeah either they're that or you're a prude. Given your age and maturity I'll go with the latter.

I'd find it more mature to not like strip clubs, actually. Maturity has little to do with age, but I can see how people sometimes make that mistake. Anyway, you set me up so good in your previous response that I kind of had to agree.. but yeah, that was too harsh. I'm sure they're lovely enough people (I mean that). I think I just expect too much of others. To most, disliking strip clubs can only mean that the person must be a prude. They don't seem to see there can be other reasons. I understand how regular people would find strip clubs ethically definsible and a fun time, though.

 

[Billy]

I'd find it more mature to not like strip clubs, actually. Maturity has little to do with age, but I can see how people sometimes make that mistake. Anyway, you set me up so good in your previous response that I kind of had to agree.. but yeah, that was too harsh. I'm sure they're lovely enough people (I mean that). I think I just expect too much of others. To most, disliking strip clubs can only mean that the person must be a prude. They don't seem to see there can be other reasons. I understand how regular people would find strip clubs ethically definsible and a fun time, though.

What other possible reasons, barring your family being murdered in one or something extreme like that could someone hate a strip club? It all comes down to personal preferences, and if no one is being hurt, whats the big deal?

 

[Lucidmoon]

What other possible reasons, barring your family being murdered in one or something extreme like that could someone hate a strip club? It all comes down to personal preferences, and if no one is being hurt, whats the big deal?

As a former stripper I can assure you there are many reasons for hating them. You have no idea how many people are hurt in them.

 

[Billy]

As a former stripper I can assure you there are many reasons for hating them. You have no idea how many people are hurt in them.

As someone who has dated a stripper, I can assure you I know what happens there. Nothing that isn't chosen. Except for the ones who are strung out, and even then, you cant blame their position on the club.

 

[Lucidmoon]

I totally agree - but why perpetuate an environment where women surrender their dignity? It would be like enabling a drug addict - something you wouldn't do to someone you loved.

 

[Billy]

I totally agree - but why perpetuate an environment where women surrender their dignity? It would be like enabling a drug dealer - something you wouldn't do to someone you loved.

Because it's not the environment causing their pain. There are still girls there who don't abuse drugs, who walk home every night with a few hundred dollars, who go home and put the money away to build themselves a future, who actually enjoy what they do. Who enjoy the attention.

And its funny, I don't think all drug dealers are these monolithic evil forces either, I was one for a long time. Sometimes working minimum wage just doesn't put enough food on the table to feed your loved ones. My father did it as well. Not everyone is fortunate enough to grow up rich, and by rich I mean middle class, which according to the rest of the world IS rich. When you go to bed hungry enough nights, your perspective on whats right and wrong begins to change. Would you steal bread to feed your starving family? My father asked me that when I was a kid one time. I said unequivocally, yes, I would do what I had to to keep my family alive. I have carried that attitude my entire life.

So I guess, on a personal level, when I see people put strippers and drug dealers down as "scum" I feel a little cut. Not just because of my own personal choices. But because, who the fuck are they to judge people who are in a point of desperation, while they idly sit by in their lap of luxury with mommy and daddy funding them and their perfect little lives?

It reeks of ignorant hypocrisy.

Thats all I really care to say about the subject.

 

[aerosol]

As someone who has dated a stripper, I can assure you I know what happens there. Nothing that isn't chosen. Except for the ones who are strung out, and even then, you cant blame their position on the club.

Few people choose to become strippers based on a positive reason. A lot of the time it will be women with a history of sexual abuse. I wouldn't know of any person (save for exhibitionists) who would strip unless they were desperate for money and/or have had "messed up" relationships with one or more males in their life. The club takes advantage of these broken souls and makes money off of them. I would never go there if I were a guy. I wouldn't be able to stomach what the stripper that I'm eyeing must be thinking of me. I had a friend that strips (her history included sexual abuse), and she said she hates some of the regulars, and just feels sorry for others. Seems like women turn to strip clubs for validation based on very negative experiences. I wouldn't feel good knowing that I was keeping that system in business.

It's easy to just see it as "fun" and "everyone makes his or her own choice/nobody is forced", which is true in itself. Unfortunately, the matter is more complex than that.

 

[Lucidmoon]

So I guess, on a personal level, when I see people put strippers and drug dealers down as "scum" I feel a little cut. Not just because of my own personal choices. But because, who the fuck are they to judge people who are in a point of desperation, while they idly sit by in their lap of luxury with mommy and daddy funding them and their perfect little lives?

Excuse me? I did no such thing. This went from being an intelligent conversation to an irrational, emotionally charged one. If the idea I proposed was so far from the truth I think the only appropriate action would be for you to laugh at it.

 

[Billy]

Few people choose to become strippers based on a positive reason. A lot of the time it will be women with a history of sexual abuse. I wouldn't know of any person (save for exhibitionists) who would strip unless they were desperate for money and/or have had "messed up" relationships with one or more males in their life. The club takes advantage of these broken souls and makes money off of them. I would never go there if I were a guy. I wouldn't be able to stomach what the stripper that I'm eyeing must be thinking of me. I had a friend that strips (her history included sexual abuse), and she said she hates some of the regulars, and just feels sorry for others. Seems like women turn to strip clubs for validation based on very negative experiences. I wouldn't feel good knowing that I was keeping that system in business.

It's easy to just see it as "fun" and "everyone makes his or her own choice/nobody is forced", which is true in itself. Unfortunately, the matter is more complex than that.

Yeah there is tax lawyers with sexual abuse histories too, and if anything they hurt more people then strippers do. The reason a lot of these girls become strippers is simple, they make a LOT more money then flipping burgers. I dated a girl who made close to 600 a night when she worked. She genuinely had a good time with it, and chalked it up to "well you're only young once, and I wont look like this forever, so I might as well cash in on it". She worked at Mardi Gras in Springfield Mass. Most of the girls there made around 1000 a night. Which is funny because that made the strippers richer then the clients.

Logically speaking, if you're not squeamish and don't mind being ogled, its a much better way to make $$$ then working some crappy job.

Have you ever been to a strip club?

Is there a girl or two in there who has had problems in her life, who was abused, who needs some form of sick attention, with daddy issues with drug problems? You betcha. There are also girls like that in every other industry as well. And you would be surprised at how many strippers exactly are, exhibitionists.

 

[Billy]

Excuse me? I did no such thing. This went from being an intelligent conversation to an irrational, emotionally charged one. If the idea I proposed was so far from the truth I think the only appropriate action would be for you to laugh at it.

Didn't say you did. Someone else had though.

 

[bamf]

[mods]I've moved this discussion out of the confessions thread because it was digressing so much from the aims of said thread. Carry on; nicely[/mods]

 

[Lucidmoon]

I'm not disputing that some women go into it with a professional mindset and come out relatively unscathed (I knew a few myself) but the harsh reality is that most of them are squandering their self worth and it's something I would never sow into.

 

[Billy]

I'm not disputing that some women go into it with a professional mindset and come out relatively unscathed (I knew a few myself) but the harsh reality is that most of them are squandering their self worth and it's something I would never sow into.

Sow into? sow like a female pig? I notice you are a christian, when did that happen, before or after your stripping days? I am curious.

 

[aerosol]

Yeah there is tax lawyers with sexual abuse histories too, and if anything they hurt more people then strippers do.

I don't understand this comment. First, it's not about whether or not these sexually abused women are hurting others. It's about trying to mend their own pain. There is a clear difference between dealing with abuse in a healthy way, or at least in a way that doesn't down right hurt. Some strippers will seek the profession strictly due to having been treated badly in the past. Nevermind the number -- abused and broken women will be attracted to this industry, way more so than more so "normal" professions.

I think I'm done with this discussion, anyway. It's not going anywhere.

 

[Lucidmoon]

Sow into? sow like a female pig? I notice you are a christian, when did that happen, before or after your stripping days? I am curious.

Lol, as in sowing a seed. I consider where I spend my time and money an investment.

I became a Christian while I was stripping actually.

 

[Stu]

strip clubs are psychological train wrecks.

 

[Billy]

I don't understand this comment. First, it's not about whether or not these sexually abused women are hurting others. It's about trying to mend their own pain. There is a clear difference between dealing with abuse in a healthy way, or at least in a way that doesn't down right hurt. Some strippers will seek the profession strictly due to having been treated badly in the past. Nevermind the number -- abused and broken women will be attracted to this industry, way more so than more so "normal" professions.

I think I'm done with this discussion, anyway. It's not going anywhere.

I doubt you have anything resembling proof to back any of these claims, least of all personal experience in the industry or around it. So yeah I guess it would be best if you ended your participation in the discussion. The only qualification for being a stripper essentially is that you are attractive and fit, whatever baggage is brought is on the girls and you cannot blame the industry for those issues. I bet you hate pornography too. Which IMO confirms my original point. That you look down on girls who choose to do what they do the way you do is on you. Most of them dont feel the same way, if anything, they look down on you for being how you are. Don't feel bad for them, it seems more like you have a level of arrogance than anything, possibly based on your own insecurities.

 

[Billy]

Lol, as in sowing a seed. I consider where I spend my time and money an investment.

I became a Christian while I was stripping actually.

Way to look down on your former colleagues. I guess you were the only one smart enough to quit and become a Christian right?

 

[Lucidmoon]

Way to look down on your former colleagues. I guess you were the only one smart enough to quit and become a Christian right?

You're way out of line with this comment. I think anyone else reading this thread could see I've never made such a claim or alluded to anything close.

Is this really how you dialog? If so your intentions are very clear and quite pathetic.

 

[aerosol]

I doubt you have anything resembling proof to back any of these claims, least of all personal experience in the industry or around it. So yeah I guess it would be best if you ended your participation in the discussion. The only qualification for being a stripper essentially is that you are attractive and fit, whatever baggage is brought is on the girls and you cannot blame the industry for those issues. I bet you hate pornography too. Which IMO confirms my original point. That you look down on girls who choose to do what they do the way you do is on you. Most of them dont feel the same way, if anything, they look down on you for being how you are. Don't feel bad for them, it seems more like you have a level of arrogance than anything, possibly based on your own insecurities.

Yes, I'm very insecure!!!111 I'm glad you pointed that out, and that you're resorting to random personal analysis.
No, I don't hate porn. Porn doesn't bother me, it has way less ethical issues than strip clubs.
I don't look down on girls who strip. That should be obvious. A lot of them have issues, and should be in better environments.