The Dark Side

[Praefect]

I was looking for a picture to post in the thread for typical MBTI characters, and came across this one.

This imagine came without an explanation.

I tried to find out more about this dark side, but wasn't very successful. There was one site I found that covered this a bit, but I don't know much about the MBTI other than that I took the test and that the results described applied to me. I don't know what Ni is, of Fe, or any of the other abbreviations, what they mean and how they interact with one another.

Do you know what this picture might be referring to?

 

[IndigoSensor]

Most of these demotivational posters aren't really based on complete truths, but more of stereotypes. With this, I wouldn't call it a stereotype at all, if anything this would apply more to INTJ's. Darth Vader is said to be an INFJ so that is part of the basis for this.

Not all INFJ's are nice and benevolent either. As they have stereotypes of being visionary and understanding inner worlds and unseen things, they would have a more "intrinsic understanding" of a dark side. Thus knowing it better then others and proclaiming others simply don't understand it. The reason I would see this applying better to INTJ's though is because they have a stronger stereotype of being "dark".

 

[Peppermint]

Well, let me put it like this. INFJs have some of the most "perfect" cognitive sets required for manipulation of individuals and social situations (Fe), plus they have an edge on long-range planning and calculation. (Ni-Ti)

Sometimes they turn out the be unscrupulous.

 

[IndigoSensor]

Well, let me put it like this. INFJs have some of the most "perfect" cognitive sets required for manipulation of individuals and social situations (Fe), plus they have an edge on long-range planning and calculation. (Ni-Ti)

Sometimes they turn out the be unscrupulous.

The only limitation is secondary Fe isn't really keen on being devious or subvertive. If an INFJ is able to get beyond Fe's sense of right and wrong, then yes it would extremely easily to manipulate people (I can say from personal experience that it can be done). But it's very very hard to let go of Fe's morals, which very often is needed to manipulate others in such a way.

 

[Praefect]

The only limitation is secondary Fe isn't really keen on being devious or subvertive. If an INFJ is able to get beyond Fe's sense of right and wrong, then yes it would extremely easily to manipulate people (I can say from personal experience that it can be done). But it's very very hard to let go of Fe's morals, which very often is needed to manipulate others in such a way.

I was thinking this was hard to imagine because of empathy. I "manipulate" people, but I do it to make them feel good, because that makes me feel good. Is this Fe sense of right and wrong tied to this empathic ability?

 

[Peppermint]

The only limitation is secondary Fe isn't really keen on being devious or subvertive. If an INFJ is able to get beyond Fe's sense of right and wrong, then yes it would extremely easily to manipulate people (I can say from personal experience that it can be done). But it's very very hard to let go of Fe's morals, which very often is needed to manipulate others in such a way.

I'm using manipulation as a term in a more general sense. (the purposeful influence of an object to achieve a desired result)

 

[IndigoSensor]

I'm using manipulation as a term in a more general sense. (the purposeful influence of an object to achieve a desired result)

Oh, well in that case then it is far more common if the intentions behind them are neutral/positive. I do it all the time. Although, not everyone is exactly ok with others doing this, or finding out that it was done to them as if they don't themselves, it might feel extremely unnerving.

 

[Peppermint]

Although, not everyone is exactly ok with others doing this, or finding out that it was done to them as if they don't themselves, it might feel extremely unnerving.

Heh, yeah, that is very true. I lock horns with NFJs over it all the time.

 

[IndigoSensor]

Heh, yeah, that is very true. I lock horns with NFJs over it all the time.

I have met a number of people in my life that do not like it at all (naturally I no longer interact with them), and just endlessly battled me over it, irregardless of my intentions or meaning behind it. Sometimes even when I did it to someone else it would cause them a problem. I call it social navigation as opposed to manipulation, but it is extremely central to my personality so for me not to do it is like asking me not to breathe. I am good at it though so the majority of people don't even know what I am doing. Hell sometimes I don't even know that I am doing it until it is pointed out, as it is very innate. I always have good intentions behind navigation though, it's never for personal gain.

Still, I have met people who simply can not handle being motioned, guided, reasoned/explained, or interpreted. I do not like calling it manipulation, but in some cases it could be seen that way. To them they see it as us taking control and free will away from them (even though from my perspective, I am not even remotely). Hence, it could be seen as "the dark side". This is why I tend to not get along with INTP, INFP, and ISFP types as they tend to have the strongest knee jerk reaction to this sort of thing. ISTP's from my experience tend to not really care the majority of the time interestingly enough, so I can't generalize to IxxP.

 

[Peppermint]

I have met a number of people in my life that do not like it at all (naturally I no longer interact with them), and just endlessly battled me over it, irregardless of my intentions or meaning behind it. Sometimes even when I did it to someone else it would cause them a problem. I call it social navigation as opposed to manipulation, but it is extremely central to my personality so for me not to do it is like asking me not to breathe. I am good at it though so the majority of people don't even know what I am doing. Hell sometimes I don't even know that I am doing it until it is pointed out, as it is very innate. I always have good intentions behind navigation though, it's never for personal gain.

Still, I have met people who simply can not handle being motioned, guided, reasoned/explained, or interpreted. I do not like calling it manipulation, but in some cases it could be seen that way. To them they see it as us taking control and free will away from them (even though from my perspective, I am not even remotely). Hence, it could be seen as "the dark side". This is why I tend to not get along with INTP, INFP, and ISFP types as they tend to have the strongest knee jerk reaction to this sort of thing. ISTP's from my experience tend to not really care the majority of the time interestingly enough, so I can't generalize to IxxP.

Indeed, I know from personal experience (as an INTP, or INXP) that it's stressful for both parties involved.

For an INTP, Fe, as an inferior part of the psyche is a major point of distrust and aversion, so they tend to be very much unreceptive to it.

 

[arbygil]

Indeed, I know from personal experience (as an INTP, or INXP) that it's stressful for both parties involved.

For an INTP, Fe, as an inferior part of the psyche is a major point of distrust and aversion, so they tend to be very much unreceptive to it.

It can be a battle, I agree - mostly because it's such a huge misunderstanding on both parts. Fe doesn't want to take freedoms away; it just wants everyone to understand everyone else's perspective. Unfortunately by doing that it unconsciously points out that if you don't want to do that, or if you feel your point is the correct one and you're sticking up for it (Fi-dominant) then there will be an argument.

Fe = wants what's best for all, even if it means someone has to compromise their core beliefs.
Fi = wants what's best without compromise.

At least, that's how I see it. I could be wrong, though.

Hmm...I wonder if the United States is Fi-dominant?

 

[Bird]

Most of these demotivational posters aren't really based on complete truths, but more of stereotypes. With this, I wouldn't call it a stereotype at all, if anything this would apply more to INTJ's. Darth Vader is said to be an INFJ so that is part of the basis for this.

Not all INFJ's are nice and benevolent either. As they have stereotypes of being visionary and understanding inner worlds and unseen things, they would have a more "intrinsic understanding" of a dark side. Thus knowing it better then others and proclaiming others simply don't understand it. The reason I would see this applying better to INTJ's though is because they have a stronger stereotype of being "dark".

What makes you feel as though this is demotivational?

 

[NeverAmI]

I have met a number of people in my life that do not like it at all (naturally I no longer interact with them), and just endlessly battled me over it, irregardless of my intentions or meaning behind it. Sometimes even when I did it to someone else it would cause them a problem. I call it social navigation as opposed to manipulation, but it is extremely central to my personality so for me not to do it is like asking me not to breathe. I am good at it though so the majority of people don't even know what I am doing. Hell sometimes I don't even know that I am doing it until it is pointed out, as it is very innate. I always have good intentions behind navigation though, it's never for personal gain.

Still, I have met people who simply can not handle being motioned, guided, reasoned/explained, or interpreted. I do not like calling it manipulation, but in some cases it could be seen that way. To them they see it as us taking control and free will away from them (even though from my perspective, I am not even remotely). Hence, it could be seen as "the dark side". This is why I tend to not get along with INTP, INFP, and ISFP types as they tend to have the strongest knee jerk reaction to this sort of thing. ISTP's from my experience tend to not really care the majority of the time interestingly enough, so I can't generalize to IxxP.

That sounds like Te more than Fe to me.

 

[88chaz88]

What makes you feel as though this is demotivational?

It's what these images are often called. It's a parody of motivational posters. They don't need to be particularly demotivational.

 

[Bird]

It's what these images are often called. It's a parody of motivational posters. They don't need to be particularly demotivational.

What I am getting at is that thinking of these as
demotivational is completely and one hundred
percent subjective. I don't view this as unmotivational
or demotivational in any way. I feel as though
this is a fickle subject. A very fickle subject because
it is entirely dependent upon personal interpretation.


I was directly asking Indy what about this he finds
demotivational. Why does this image create a bad or
a negative vibe for him?

Perhaps it's not a parody. Perhaps someone genuinely
made this as a visual description of an INFJ. And would they
be wrong? I don't think so. It's how they interpret it
and I happen to agree with this view. I think it's
clever and honest. Because we often ignore the negative
sides of things we relate to subconsciously in order
to live in peace with ourselves.


Ramble.
Ramble.
Ramble.

Here I go.

 

[rogarn]

Why is an INTJ so much more capable of evil? Why is our wrath so feared?

 

[Bird]

Why is an INTJ so much more capable of evil? Why is our wrath so feared?

I find the manipulation of ENFJs much more intimidating.

 

[88chaz88]

Why is an INTJ so much more capable of evil? Why is our wrath so feared?

I've seen an angry INTJ. I must say it's the most terrifying thing I've ever experienced.

It's no wonder I ended up being generally a good boy as a child.

 

[Bird]

I've seen an angry INTJ. I must say it's the most terrifying thing I've ever experienced.

It's no wonder I ended up being generally a good boy as a child.

Okay. Thinking back to my dad and my childhood I would say my father
(INTJ) is much more terrifying than my mother (ENFJ). God forbid you
spill a glass. God forbid.

 

[88chaz88]

Okay. Thinking back to my dad and my childhood I would say my father
(INTJ) is much more terrifying than my mother (ENFJ). God forbid you
spill a glass. God forbid.

I can relate so well since my mother is INTJ and my father ENFJ. While getting a bollocking from my Dad was rather scary, he's generally more empathetic in his anger. My mother though has absolutely no idea how scared she's making you feel.