Stripping and using meth | INFJ Forum

Stripping and using meth

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Aug 14, 2009
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Yes, that is what I was thinking of doing.

I still want to strip, but I've found that meth is actually highly harmful and toxic, so I want to switch to a different substance, but the question is, what?

Hehe.

I'm stripping furniture and was going to use a chemical stripper containing methylene chloride, which I've since learned is a highly toxic and carcinogenic chemical, and I don't want to support that nastiness, or have it in my house.

SO, there is this other stripper I could buy which is labeled "Environmentally Friendly" and it contains something called BENZYL/NMP. Well, what is BENZYL/NMP? Good question. Turns out that NMP is
...N-Methylpyrrolidone (NMP) harms the developing fetus when tested in pregnant animals. It is toxic to the reproductive system of male and female test animals. The reproductive effects of NMP in humans have not been studied. Based on the animal tests, you should treat NMP as a potential human reproductive hazard. Overexposure to NMP irritates the eyes, skin, nose, and throat. It can also affect the central nervous system or brain causing symptoms of drunkenness similar to the effects of drinking alcohol. NMP is easily absorbed through the skin. It is widely used to replace methylene chloride and other chlorinated solvents that harm the environment and health. HESIS is issuing this Health Hazard Advisory to inform workers and employers of the potential health hazards of NMP and how to protect against them. NMP is not regulated to protect workers.
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That's what they call environmentally friendly?!? I don't know what happens when you stick a benzyl in front of the NMP, but it doesn't sound good.

So I'm still sitting here, wanting to strip and wondering if the best way to do it is with a sander.

Has anyone ever stripped or refinished furniture, and is there something you can use which does not require a degree in chemistry and a death wish?

And as a general overarching thought, doesn't it seem like a big problem that getting reliable information about safe products is not easy at all? Does anyone else try to use "green" household products? "Green" (i.e. low VOC paints? Homemade cleaners?) Thoughts & experiences? What is a VOC anyway?

If you have any ideas to contribute to green chemistry, green cleaning, or stripping, please do!:D
 
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Everything harms a developing fetus.
 
Well, not everything in the world, surely. Do you mean every kind of paint stripper? Not that there are any fetuses in my house, but these chemicals also cause cancer and are probably not too good for my children. Or me. I would love to learn about better ways, if there are any.
 
I work for a green cleaning company. We use Crowbar Ultra Stripper so maybe try that if you can get it. Not sure if it's exactly what you are looking for though.

Also, everything causes cancer. Fetuses and anything in developmental stages are sensitive to just about everything.
 
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It's also possible to strip furniture by sanding or scraping the finish off. It's not necessary to use chemicals. It takes longer, and risks more damage to the wood, however.

Alternatively, if you want to use a chemical stripper, it's best to follow these guidelines:

1. Try to take the furniture somewhere away from the house in order to work on it.

2. Wear safety goggles, gloves, and make sure there's plenty of ventilation from the outside. A garage with an open door is a good example.

3. If you want to be very cautious, wear something called a "Chemical Respirator/Mask." This should ensure your safety from the chemicals. I think this site has some.
 
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I used to play a lot of golf and went through a lot of golfing gloves. They are very thin. One morning I was using a couple of older gloves to harvest a couple of patches for the palm of another glove and decided I would super glue them. I had my nose deep into my project and got an odd whiff of something I didn't like. I stopped and looked at the super glue container and saw that it contained "acrylic cyanide". I could well have been smelling hydrogen cyanide. I tossed everything away and changed from a golfing glove to a baseball batters glove which I couldn't destroy. You gotta be real careful when you go mixing things up.
 
You also might want to actually look to see whether BENZYL/NMP is toxic. I've never seen a chemical name with a "/" in it, so I have no idea what that means, but my guess is that it's NMP with a benzyl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzyl) hanging off the end of it. If true, then for all we know, the benzyl might mitigate some of those risks. The only difference between saturated and unsaturated fats is basically the number of hydrogen atoms hanging off the ends of them, so small chemical changes can make a significant effect on how it interacts with things. Minor changes can also be the difference between "food" and "acid"... so I don't think you can just look up a similar chemical and decide that the effects are the same.

That said, I'm sure lots of companies say their stuff is green even if it's not, and although the government (who sets boundaries requiring that your product fits certain criteria before you're allowed to advertize it as 'green') tries its best to cut down on things like that, quite frankly our ability to manipulate molecules is quite a bit stronger than our understanding of its effects, so of course you can't be sure that it's safe just because it says it is, either.
 
You are stripping and preg and using meth? OMG!
 
Thanks to everyone for their comments! Wyote, thanks for the info on the Crowbar Ultra Stripper, I will definitely look into that. That seems like a very interesting type of work, I'd love to hear more about it and what constitutes green cleaning. <3
 
All of our products have reduced or no VOCs (I may be wrong but I think all of our products are VOC free) and do not pollute the environment. We also use recycled materials, and I am honestly not sure what all is in place but there are standards set by organizations like the EPA and LEED and the company I work for does a good job of going above and beyond the minimum requirements.

Oh yea and VOC stands for Volitile Organic Compound which is basically a substance that in itself releases toxic fumes or some such thing like that. Basically it pollutes.

Edit: And yea, it doesn't mean the products aren't harmful. You can't go drinking the stuff. You can't clean things with rainbows and happy thoughts.
 
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And what is all this anyway? It means nothing to me. For all I know it could be the ingredients in toothpaste. How is someone without a degree in chemistry supposed to know if these ingredients, in that Crowbar Paint Stripper, are harmful or not?

Ethanolamine 141-43-5 10 - 25
2-Butoxyethanol 111-76-2 10 - 25
Benzyl alcohol 100-51-6 10 - 25
Sodium xylene sulfonate 1300-72-7 1 - 3
Sodium hydroxide 1310-73-2 1 - 3
 
Janet said:
And what is all this anyway? It means nothing to me. For all I know it could be the ingredients in toothpaste. How is someone without a degree in chemistry supposed to know if these ingredients, in that Crowbar Paint Stripper, are harmful or not?

Ethanolamine 141-43-5 10 - 25
2-Butoxyethanol 111-76-2 10 - 25
Benzyl alcohol 100-51-6 10 - 25
Sodium xylene sulfonate 1300-72-7 1 - 3
Sodium hydroxide 1310-73-2 1 - 3
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Umm... yikes. actually, now I think you should have the furniture professionally stripped. By someone else. This isn't the kind of thing you should be doing yourself. It seems like you're going to insist on the chemical method, and you openly admit you can't understand chemicals.

By the way, you don't really need to know the exact composition so much as the effects and such. Pay attention to these parts:

EFFECTS OF ACUTE EXPOSURE
EYES: Causes eye burns. Symptoms may include pain, tearing, redness, and eye injury.
SKIN: Causes skin burns. Symptoms may include pain, redness, swelling, scarring, and skin damage. May be absorbed through the skin and may cause effects as described under Inhalation (see below).
INHALATION: May be harmful if inhaled. High concentrations of vapor or mist may cause nose, throat and respiratory tract irritation.
Symptoms may include coughing, wheezing, shortness of breath and a disagreeable metallic taste. High concentrations of vapor or mist mayalso cause central nervous system effects including headache, dizziness and nausea.
INGESTION: Harmful if swallowed. May cause mouth, throat and stomach burns. Symptoms may include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and
severe stomach pain. May also cause central nervous system effects including headache, dizziness and weakness.
EFFECTS OF CHRONIC EXPOSURE: Prolonged inhalation of high concentrations of concentrated alkaline materials above exposure limits
(See Section 8, Exposure Controls/Personal Protection) can cause respiratory tract injury.
MEDICAL CONDITIONS AGGRAVATED: May aggravate pre-existing eye, skin and respiratory conditions.

PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT (PPE)
EYE: Where eye contact is possible, wear chemical splash goggles (ANSI Z87.1-approved).
SKIN: Where skin contact is possible, chemical-resistant gloves should be worn. When additional skin contact is possible, other protective equipment and clothing (e.g., footwear) may be needed. All contaminated clothing should be removed immediately and cleaned (or discarded)
before reuse.
RESPIRATORY: No respiratory protection is required if general room ventilation is adequate and airborne concentrations are kept below
exposure limits. When exposure limits are exceeded, use appropriate respiratory protection (NIOSH/MSHA) to prevent overexposure.
ENGINEERING CONTROLS: Good general room ventilation is expected to be adequate.
 
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I'm a chemist, listen to me :D

Janet said:
I'm stripping furniture and was going to use a chemical stripper containing methylene chloride, which I've since learned is a highly toxic and carcinogenic chemical, and I don't want to support that nastiness, or have it in my house.
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Oh puyhleeeeeze. I practially swim in DCM (another shortname for methylene chloride). I work in an organic chemistry lab, and I am around TONS of chemicals day in and day out. Hell, I use gallons of DCM a week. The stuff really isn't that dangerous, and is a hell of a lot safer then other chemicals out there. As long as you don't bathe in it, and huff the fumes on purpose, you really are going to be fine. It's pretty volatile so it isn't going to hang around. Just don't use it inside because it can and will dissolve polyester fabrics.


Janet said:
SO, there is this other stripper I could buy which is labeled "Environmentally Friendly" and it contains something called BENZYL/NMP. Well, what is BENZYL/NMP? Good question. Turns out that NMP is. That's what they call environmentally friendly?!? I don't know what happens when you stick a benzyl in front of the NMP, but it doesn't sound good.
Click to expand...

I Don't know as much about NMP, but I actually will venture to guess it is worse then DCM. The reason is it is less volatile, and environmentally more persistent. While it is more likely to be compatiable with biological organisms (as it is a lactam), there isn't really enough known about it. It's also likely to be more messy to use due to the lower vapor pressure. It also is likely much less efficent at stripping furniture. However, the fact that it says benzyl/nmp doesn't follow IUPAC naming rules so there is no way to know what it is. It's possible that it contains toluene and NMP in mixture. Or, it could simply be a benzylated NMP. I would think the former though, as the latter is likely a solid.

In the end. Just use DCM. It really isn't that dangerous at all. So many people think "OMG CHEMICALS ARE BAAAAD". Nope, most aren't nearly as dangerous as they are made out to be, people are so over-reactive about it.
 
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I wasn't going to insist on the chemical method, and unfortunately having the furniture professionally stripped would defeat three purposes: saving money, learning how to restore and create beautiful pieces of furniture myself, and not harming people or the environment in the process. Just looking for ideas and information.
 
IndigoSensor said:
Oh puyhleeeeeze. I practially swim in DCM (another shortname for methylene chloride). I work in an organic chemistry lab, and I am around TONS of chemicals day in and day out. Hell, I use gallons of DCM a week. The stuff really isn't that dangerous, and is a hell of a lot safer then other chemicals out there. As long as you don't bathe in it, and huff the fumes on purpose, you really are going to be fine. It's pretty volatile so it isn't going to hang around. Just don't use it inside because it can and will dissolve polyester fabrics.

I Don't know as much about NMP, but I actually will venture to guess it is worse then DCM. The reason is it is less volatile, and environmentally more persistent. While it is more likely to be compatiable with biological organisms (as it is a lactam), there isn't really enough known about it. It's also likely to be more messy to use due to the lower vapor pressure. It also is likely much less efficent at stripping furniture. However, the fact that it says benzyl/nmp doesn't follow IUPAC naming rules so there is no way to know what it is. It's possible that it contains toluene and NMP in mixture. Or, it could simply be a benzylated NMP. I would think the former though, as the latter is likely a solid.

In the end. Just use DCM. It really isn't that dangerous at all. So many people think "OMG CHEMICALS ARE BAAAAD". Nope, most aren't nearly as dangerous as they are made out to be, people are so over-reactive about it.
Click to expand...

Really??????

See, how would anyone without an organic chemistry lab know this? They wouldn't.

So, marketers slap an "environmentally friendly" label on the bottle, charge you extra for it, make you think you are endangering your children and some innocent workers in a third world country for buying their competitors' products and it is friggin CONFUSING to get anything approaching good, understandable information.

It's the sea salt all over again.

Still debating as to whether to douse the thing with chemicals or attack it with a sander....

Thank you for the information! <3
 
Misleading title D:
 
Janet said:
I wasn't going to insist on the chemical method, and unfortunately having the furniture professionally stripped would defeat three purposes: saving money, learning how to restore and create beautiful pieces of furniture myself, and not harming people or the environment in the process. Just looking for ideas and information.
Click to expand...

Okay, that's good. I didn't realize you were trying to learn anything. I was just becoming concerned that you might inadvertently expose yourself to chemicals due to not understanding the safety procedures.

Anyway, it looks like this one (the one Wyote mentioned) is fairly safe, as long as you follow the procedures I outlined above.

You really don't have to be a chemist. If you want to look up each one individually, just use Google. There's OSHA information on each individual chemical and effects of exposure, but that's not as important as knowing the effects of the whole product. I work for an environmental contractor who has to stay on top of this stuff to protect their workers.
 
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That is interesting about working for the environmental contractor. Actually that's one reason I even brought up this thread, is because I hoped people with more knowledge/information/experience would pop in with their two cents. I do a lot of painting, not just furniture, and it would be great to fully understand the impact of the chemicals involved, but unfortunately, another degree is out of the question at the moment, sigh...

And it is awfully nice of Indy to volunteer his organic chemistry knowledge, too. There is a lot of information out there, but it is difficult to know what information to trust, and it can be very confusing.
 
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