Slut Walks

[acd]

I'm writing a paper on this for a persuasion class.
I thought I'd share this video on the subject here because I enjoyed watching it and I am curious about your thoughts on the subject.
(Plus, your thoughts might help me with my paper! Mehehehe!)

What do you think about this movement?
If you're a woman.. does it appeal to you or repel you?
If you're a man, can you take it seriously or is it absurd?


V I D E O: http://ww3.tvo.org/video/164179/slut-walks-and-modern-feminism

It's pretty long (over 35 mins!) but I hope you'll watch it.
The journalist from Texas is so cynical and sarcastic--I love it.


If you don't want to watch the video, here is an article to read:
http://www.excal.on.ca/news/slutwalk-toronto/

 

[Krutz]

First let me qualify this by stating that I love sluts.

I have heard a little bit about these slutwalks but i'm not going to watch that video.
I did read the article though, not much information there, mostly pictures.
Wtf are they protesting against/for? The right to be sluts?
This is already a right in the western world, want to be a slut? go right ahead.

Looking at the signs carried by people in that article I can tell this is a feminist
walk, which usually mean nonsensical and utterly devoid of any real depth.

Sign #1: "There is no such thing as an invitation for rape".
Sign #2: "Stop victim blaming".

That shit is straight from feminist/women studies textbooks and has nothing to do with sluts.
Sign 2 most probably relates to court proceedings in sexual crimes, and the feminist stance is pretty
much that women never lie and should not ever ever ever be questioned about anything. Here is the ideal
feminist version off how it should go down... Woman says man raped her -> Man goes to jail.


Sign 1 is just retarded, Rape is a involuntary thing by definition therefore holding
a sign such as that is just as dumb as walking around with a sign saying "bananas are yellow", doh.
But as usual with feminists they try to take a truism and confound it with other things
as to avoid criticism and proper analysis. Sign 1 is that stand in for the idea that
people do have a certain responsibility for their own safety(women are not excluded).


I can't take it seriously at all.

 

[Sriracha]

I can't believe I just listened to that whole thing. However, it kept me interested.

It repels me. Would I agree to reclaim the word "slut"? LOL ... ummm no. I'm not so certain the red-headed gal knows what she is talking about. The conversation went everywhere and I found it difficult to figure out what exactly it was they were trying to accomplish. It seems she is comparing apples to oranges ... "sexual assault survivor" and "slut" are two totally different things ... then twisting them into empowering words? Riiiiight. What is female empowered sexuality? "I'm gonna reclaim the word slut and allow it to empower me, but it's the intent behind the word being thrown at me." WTF? (that wasn't a verbatim quote, but that's how I took it.) An unproductive event? Absolutely. I agree with Suzannah (Texas), it's a pony-show. heee

Feminist graduate students with nothing to do? lol

 

[the]

Its fucking stupid. If you dress in a way to show that you are sexually available, the first action you are going to see is a rapist! Its not the victims fault but if I was a rapist and I had to get though pants or a slutty short skirt, my little peenie is going to penetrate the woman wearing the skirt. Its just easier.

Also I object to it on the same terms as I object to only black people saying nigger. You dont get to own a word. I can say what I want and you dont own rights to its use.

Plus the title : ..modern feminism... turns me off to the subject right away. Feminism is the stupidest shit of all time. I definitely dont take these women seriously.

 

[acd]

It both repels and appeals to me.. if that makes any sense.
It appeals in that I like the concept of redefining a word. Language creates our reality, and it's one way to try to enact change.. I like the subversive element to it...
I just don't think they thought it through enough..

Though I fully support and also work to raise awareness that sexual assault victims do nothing to deserve being attacked, identifying as a slut is not the way that I would go about doing it.
I am not promiscuous--and I do not want to be identified by others by my sexuality. It's not something I publicly express.
But I understand and agree with the slutwalk movement that a woman should be able to be promiscuous and act and dress as provocatively as she wants.

Though the founders have issued statements on their websites that you don't have to call yourself a slut to support the movement--People are still put off because the name of the movement is still: Slutwalk

The thing that throws me is that sexual assault isn't really all about sexuality or sexyness... A rapist will assault a child or an elderly person or a mentally disabled person regardless--just because they are vulnerable. I don't know. I've been to burlesque shows and masquerades where women wear next to nothing and the men don't seem to really get all crazy about it.. And not that I'm calling them sluts, but the attire was sexy. So, I think it's a mistake to associate one person's sexual freedom with another's violent pathology... and they are right to be angry at the police officer's ignorance in equating sexy clothing and behavior with being raped--but their actions only reinforce his words.

Well my paper is going to be on why the movement is unpopular with a lot of feminists as well as non-feminists.

 

[acd]

Its fucking stupid. If you dress in a way to show that you are sexually available, the first action you are going to see is a rapist! Its not the victims fault but if I was a rapist and I had to get though pants or a slutty short skirt, my little peenie is going to penetrate the woman wearing the skirt. Its just easier.

Thank you for your insight into the mind of a rapist, Rapist.

 

[Norton]

The slut walks are self-defeating and the "sluts" are delusional. These women don't "get" men. The more you show, the more men look. And, if I have to tell you what we're thinking, you've led a very sheltered life.

The best way to protect yourself is to learn how to fight. Had I daughters, I'd have trained them to be excellent fighters just as I did my sons. The world is a harsh place.

 

[acd]

And, if I have to tell you what we're thinking, you've led a very sheltered life.

I hope this isn't directed at me. It isn't true or very helpful or illuminating.

 

[Norton]

I hope this isn't directed at me. It isn't true or very helpful or illuminating.

It was not directed at you. The word "you" was used instead of the word "one," which, in this sentence, would have been awkward as in--->"And, if one has to be told what we're thinking, one has led a very sheltered life." Not good.

On the other hand, I don't believe that these slut walks are effective. I believe they will achieve nothing because they are naive and ineffective. I think they demonstrate nothing but an ignorance of human nature, which, given our biological imperative, relies on culture to provide a thin veneer of civilization that governs acceptable, respectful behavior. I mean, really, if you dress (one dresses) like a slut, talk like a slut, and walk like a slut, don't be surprised if you convince (one convinces) at least some men that you are (one is) a slut. I think I understand the putative rationale for these slut walks. I just think they're naive.

 

[Faye]

I'm sorry, but I think this is ridiculous.

I think that they are aiding in the sexual objectification of women. The term 'slut' connotes someone who is a sexual object first and human being second (if at all). They are basically showing support for the right of women to be sexually objectified in a particular way, as opposed to the old way where women were expected to cover up and maintain purity.

What really needs to happen is a walk for intelligent women, nice women, educated women, or women who are anything but sexual women first. So little emphasis is placed on a girl's personality or intelligence in popular culture; what is emphasized is her physical appeal, and therein lies the problem I think.

 

[Norton]

There is a part of every human being that transcends gender, sex, and sexuality. This is why there is the concept of "person," a genderless word. When a person uses logic, does mathematics, produces art, and feels deep empathy on the most basic level, gender, sex and sexuality need not be a part of it. It is this essential, common humanity that needs to be the focus of movements that seek to end victimization, powerless and violence against women.

 

[Korg]

Well, I understand the psychology in taking ownership of derogatory labels and insults. It's a preemptive defense mechanism against anticipated judgment, really. "If I call myself a slut as a compliment first, it removes your ability to ever say it to me later on as invective." The trick, of course, is to say it loud enough that you believe the one doing the judging (in this case, a mass audience) has heard you since the entire perceived offense resides with their assessment of you and/or your demographic.

But that is also why I think it's stupid in execution: it defensively shifts the entire locus of control upon the 'enemy' instead of internally where it belongs. It's all based on the premise that they have the power to control you, to define you, to make you feel bad, to judge you - and your response is trying to manage that (again, defensively). See, just because you appropriate a questionable term and re-define the meaning for yourself, it doesn't mean it's been redefined for everyone else - especially not when you try to re-define it by coercion. To that end, you're basically now leveling the same judgment against yourself that they did to begin with:

"So you actually admit you're a slut? I knew I was right."
"So you actually admit you're a nigger? Okay."
"So you actually admit you're a queer faggot? Awesome!"

Moreover, actually playing up the stereotypes only reinforce the original perceptions that one is trying to shatter. Once "movements" like these are concluded, the only thing that has happened is that people see even dumber niggers running around unable to live in society, even fatter and sluttier feminists who miss the point and even more flamboyant faggots who mince down the street in rainbow panties and glitter.

Bottom line: if you want to change flawed perceptions, don't try to change the content in the minds of others, give them new, legitimate content to process and it will evolve on it's own.

 

[Korg]

^^^^ Okay, so it has been brought to my attention that I kinda missed the point of this thread. I think my previous post is still legit, but it's not really addressing the OP which is more about rape than just being called a slut in general. I've got a meeting in 3 minutes so I don't have time to write my thoughts in any way other than to simply state this:

I will never say that dressing provocatively is an excuse to be raped or that there's any excuse for rape at all, really. But the onus is still upon women to accept they live in an unfair and cruel world that will take advantage of them whether they like it or not. So while it may not make her a victim if she gets raped for dressing like a "slut" in a dangerous environment, it does make her a dumb fuck. Beyond that, my opinions on the slut walk still stand.

 

[This]

I don't understand what ends these movements are trying to prove, The way I've originally heard it was that it was supposed to curtail "victim blaming" in rape cases. And maybe this was just in my area but the reason one of these things was spurred here was because of some guy who gave out advice on how women could try and protect themselves from being raped, he gave out certain advise like "don't wear short skirts and walk through allies" and "don't hitch rides from strangers". The question is, who are you trying to convince? It's not like you're going to convince rapists not to rape people based these factors. It's one thing to say oh that guy DESERVED to get robbed because he put a big screen tv in front of his main window, but it's another to say "hey you probably shouldn't put that there incase you don't want to get robbed". Nobody deserves bad things happening to them obviously, but there are bad people out there and we have to be careful. The way I see it is; it would be almost equivalent to me starting a protest about how I should be able to wave around thousands of dollars everywhere I go and not get mugged. And yes I should be able to do that and if we lived in a world full of people that shared the same ideals about that as I do, I could do that. But the reality is that, that is not the world we live in so I can't and telling me not to wave a bunch of cash around is probably sound advice.

 

[GracieRuth]

I don't think there is any way a woman can dress that will justify a rape.

That said, I think women should have a heart for men. We know that men are visually stimulated. I know it's a fine line, because our nature as women is to look attractive. But it's nice to be able to have normal conversations with men, without them having to push awy sexual thoughts every 30 seconds. I take great care to dress in a manner appropriate to the location. Obviously I'll wear a swimsuit to the beach, but not to the store. If I'm going out with the girls for drinks, I'm going to a place designed for flirting, so I'll dress sexier for that occasion. If I'm answering phones at an office, the same skin tight mini skirt that I wore the night before now becomes a no-no.

 

[Billy]

I think its idiotic. I think its a bunch of people who like attention being attention sluts.

 

[This]

I don't think there is any way a woman can dress that will justify a rape.

I don't think people waving around money justifies them being mugged, I don't think not wearing a seatbelt justifies people being killed by automobiles. It's still probably a good Idea to wear a seatbelt though.

 

[InvisibleJim]

Common sense dictates that I wear appropriate clothes or get arrested for indecent exposure.

When you see some of the teenagers/adults wearing belts as skirts you do have to wonder why these individuals are exempt from the laws regarding indecent exposure.

It doesn't make what anyone does to these people less of a crime. However, I am sure that there are non enforced laws which can be applied in a sensible way.

Why aren't individuals complaining about individuals dressing in a way that makes most people uncomfortable, worse still when they are dressed in a way which is often illegal whereas other individuals would not be allowed to dress this way?

Now if we specialise the context from general to specific. Is it reasonable for me to expect to even travel to a pub on the main street with scantily clad flesh bobbing about? Probably not, because looking in the wrong place would open myself up to accusations, legal action and being added to some kind of sex offenders register even when nothing has happened except for someone looking at something which was on display like a sex shop window in the red light district.

That doesn't make sense, especially as I'm not allowed to let it all hang out while wearing a belt myself.

Flashing is still flashing regardless of sex. In a way, yes I think it is somewhat absurd even if the point is serious.

To be honest, the law saying to women who are raped 'Why were you breaking this law?' is not absurd, two laws have been broken and although someone who say rapes the female should be prosecuted fully, so should the woman for breaking laws regarding indecent exposure, in many ways they are actually applying a double standard by not applying the law properly in sympathy for her situation.

This is fine, but if it has serious consequences the behaviour has to be curtailed. Yes, we expect the law to be kind and allow a person rushing to a death bed speeding a little. But we don't do it just because they think it's fun, as is the case with dressing in an extremely inappropriate/illegal way for girls nights out etc.

 

[Sloe Djinn]

Well, I think that the slut walk may have been useful in terms of creatively sending a message to the police department of the officer who made the offensive statement, but that's about it.

I liked how when male sexuality was briefly brought up it was mentioned that porn should be center-stage, then it was like, end-discussion on male sexuality. XD

I did like the Texas reporter's wit, but I wish she could have elaborated her thoughts better. I think she had some good counterpoints but she seemed caught off guard a lot of the time because of how bored/disengaged she was.

There was a lot of sliding back-and-forth between concepts of feminism, patriarchal oppression, stereotyping, sexual assault, etc, so it was difficult for me to understand exactly how the slut walk could be effective as a tool of progressive feminism.

 

[acd]

Common sense dictates that I wear appropriate clothes or get arrested for indecent exposure.

When you see some of the teenagers/adults wearing belts as skirts you do have to wonder why these individuals are exempt from the laws regarding indecent exposure.

It doesn't make what anyone does to these people less of a crime. However, I am sure that there are non enforced laws which can be applied in a sensible way.

Why aren't individuals complaining about individuals dressing in a way that makes most people uncomfortable, worse still when they are dressed in a way which is often illegal whereas other individuals would not be allowed to dress this way?

Now if we specialise the context from general to specific. Is it reasonable for me to expect to even travel to a pub on the main street with scantily clad flesh bobbing about? Probably not, because looking in the wrong place would open myself up to accusations, legal action and being added to some kind of sex offenders register even when nothing has happened except for someone looking at something which was on display like a sex shop window in the red light district.

That doesn't make sense, especially as I'm not allowed to let it all hang out while wearing a belt myself.

Flashing is still flashing regardless of sex. In a way, yes I think it is somewhat absurd even if the point is serious.

To be honest, the law saying to women who are raped 'Why were you breaking this law?' is not absurd, two laws have been broken and although someone who say rapes the female should be prosecuted fully, so should the woman for breaking laws regarding indecent exposure, in many ways they are actually applying a double standard by not applying the law properly in sympathy for her situation.

This is fine, but if it has serious consequences the behaviour has to be curtailed. Yes, we expect the law to be kind and allow a person rushing to a death bed speeding a little. But we don't do it just because they think it's fun, as is the case with dressing in an extremely inappropriate/illegal way for girls nights out etc.

Except that men don't rape women because women flash them or dress provocatively.
There is no law against women dressing provocatively and no one is advocating women walking around naked or with their bits exposed. It's missing the point.