Russian Adoptee Returned | INFJ Forum

Russian Adoptee Returned

Discussion in 'News and Politics' started by TheLastMohican, Apr 9, 2010.

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  1. TheLastMohican

    TheLastMohican Captain Obvious
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    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...04/09/AR2010040901765.html?hpid=moreheadlines


    Interesting case. Details are scant, but I'd like to hear opinions on the general theory: would disrupting an adoption be the right thing to do under any circumstances? If so, would it be more appropriate to turn the child over to U.S. authorities, or to return shim to the country of origin (assuming that the situation was a result of a corrupt foreign agency)?


     
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  2. testing

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    I would love to answer this post coherently, but there is a loud buzzing in my head which means it is about to explode. So I'd better postpone answering at length but OH MY GOD what?!?!?! My kids are violent to me all the time! One bit me on the butt just last night. YOU don't return a child when they misbehave you get help. Morons. Yes adopted kids have problems ,sometimes and do people not GET this when they adopt a child? AAaarrarrarasedfsdfgsdfjtuyjl
     
  3. Rakawi

    Rakawi Community Member

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    WTF would someone think it's okay to return a disturbed child like a defective toaster? :m075:

    If he wasn't scarred before, he certainly is now.
     
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  4. OP
    TheLastMohican

    TheLastMohican Captain Obvious
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    What kind of help did you have in mind?
     
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  5. Rakawi

    Rakawi Community Member

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    Presumably she's referring to the help of a mental health professional.

    All reasonable avenues should be exhausted before reaching the conclusion that your child's care is better left in abler hands, and if that conclusion is reached there is a legal and formal process that takes place. And I'm pretty sure no part of that process involves a one-way plane ticket, a $200 taxi ride on good faith, and zero guardian supervision.

    Was he old enough to be flying across international borders by himself anyway? What's the airline's policy on this?
     
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  6. testing

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    Sorry about that.

    I had in mind that the parents should seek help from a child psychologist, family counselor or social worker if the child had major behavioral problems. From the article, it did not look as if they did this.

    It is a shame that the Russian authorities are now blocking all U.S. adoptions, but one can hardly blame them with stories like this.

    My neighbors across the street adopted two children from Russia, and the children had been in institutional care, had (minor) medical problems and nutritional deficiencies, and one has ADHD and is quite energetic and a lot for older parents to keep up with. Pretty typical children, really, though with a bit of a rough start in life.

    These parents, who are well-meaning and intelligent, sought help from teachers, child psychologists and doctors when their children had some behavioral and medical problems. They did not ship them back to Russia. Because they are children, not defective toasters.

    To answer your OP, I suppose there might be cases where disrupting an adoption would possibly be the right thing to do, but if you absolutely must, this story is not the right way to go about it.

    Children can be challenging, and adopting a child who may have had a rough start in life requires extra commitment and patience from parents, and it is a lifelong commitment unless there are major extenuating circumstances, which I don't see in this article.

    And the result of this incident is that there are now a bunch of children in Russia who will stay in institutional care instead of being placed with loving parents like my neighbors.
     
  7. testing

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    He was only adopted last September, too, preumably September 2009? Which means they had a child who must've been in an orphanage for most of his 6 years and they gave it less than a year to try to work through his emotional problems? That sounds insufficient to me and totally lacking any grasp of reality -- the child was likely learning a new language, learning to live in a new country, learning to get along with and hopefully bond with new people -- OF COURSE he had emotional problems.

    No wonder... If you were to ship me to Russia and tell me I had to live with a new family, learn a new language and behave myself all the time, I might want to hit someone too. And I'm a lot older than that kid.

    Ugh.
     
  8. bamf

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    You mean you can't just return an adopted child if you are done playing with them?

    I think at the very least, these women could have turn the child over to US authorities. The US is a better place in my mind than Russia, and I bet even more so for children looking for adoption.
     
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  9. testing

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    Yes, from what I hear, the situation in most Russian orphanages is pretty grim, but I am not sure if it is much better here. It probably is a little better; at least he would be likely to get enough to eat in the foster care system in the U.S.; my neighbor's children were malnourished when they came over...
     
  10. OP
    TheLastMohican

    TheLastMohican Captain Obvious
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    The article has apparently been replaced with a more detailed version. Here are some additional claims:

     
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  11. testing

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    Yes, I read that and I STILL say she should've worked with him more. I seriously doubt this child spoke any English and I seriously doubt she spoke any Russian... (could be wrong). It would take more time than she gave it, much more time, and more work than one visit from a social worker.

    I haven't read anything yet that tells me this child was unreachable.

    Everything I've read makes me think this woman must be someone who has not spent much, if any, time around any actual real children, much less children recovering from difficult situations and (likely) suffering from abandonment issues, and anger, who don't even speak the same language.

    Only thing I will give her: the orphanage should not have lied or sugar-coated things. If they did that was wrong.

    And like I said before, Russian orphanages do not feed the children well, typically, and it is likely this boy was very skinny when she picked him up. No shocker there.
     
    #11 testing, Apr 9, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010
  12. OP
    TheLastMohican

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    All things considered, I think the boy probably has reactive attachment disorder. Sometimes local psychologists, counselors, etc. do not know what to do with such children, and either give no advice or disbelieve the parents (the latter if the child is also a good liar). It would not surprise me if it turns out that the mother and grandmother did seek help and found nothing effective.

    It sounds like the child did speak some English, if he really told people that he was going to burn down the house. (This might not have been his first adoption by an English-speaking family.) I'd like to know more about the orphanage and adoption agency involved.
     
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  13. Wyst

    Wyst Are you there?

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    Lol... if this flies with no repurcussions, before you know it, parents will be turning in their biological children to the hospital.

    "I'm sorry. There's been a mistake. This child is disobedient. I don't want him/her anymore. Not my problem anymore."

    Seriously. Violent or not, you signed up for it. Take responsibility and act like an adult. (and I'm referring to the biological situation, not the adoptive one)
     
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    #13 Wyst, Apr 9, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010
  14. testing

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    Unfortunately, you're probably right... he obviously has some kind of psychological problems... but my neighbors' children from Russia had similar issues, and with lots of help and work have gotten better. They're thriving and able to relate to people pretty well. Why not this boy? Maybe his case was worse, I don't know.

    Seems to me you'd have to be a pretty clueless adoptive parent to not expect some kind of behavioral/psychological issues (IMHO) but maybe this boy's case really was much worse than it sounds.
     
  15. OP
    TheLastMohican

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    Well, yes, I would say this particular woman was pretty clueless, since she apparently took the orphanage's word for it when they claimed that a 7-year-old was psychologically normal. Lack of proper attachment in the first few months of life can seriously screw up a child, and those in orphanages usually don't get the kind of attention they need. If she wanted someone without issues, she should have adopted an infant.

    That said, I think it's unfair to say that she is obligated to keep an adoptee who turns out to be dangerous psychotic, especially if she was lied to. If the family and local authorities simply cannot handle the case, then I think the agency responsible for the mess should be held accountable and made to help clean it up (although that is often impossible to enforce, I understand).
     
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  16. Slayerwolf

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    I just read today (4-15-10) that Russia has suspended all adoptions going to the U.S. >

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100415/ap_on_re_eu/eu_russia_us_adoptions



    They are pissed, and I do not blame them one bit.They also would like to see some sort of prosecution against the woman who sent back the 7 yr old child un-attended with just a lousy note like he was some sort of machine ordered off the internet that malfunctioned.

    I would like to see this woman made an outcast, I'd like to see her being told in the town she lives in to leave whatever stores she does business at...with a "YOUR NOT WELCOME HERE. I'd like to see people remind her of this for the rest of her life and never give her one bit of peace about it, she DESERVES NONE!

    I doubt U.S. law enforcement will or even can put charges against her but there are many ways to make someone miserable and she deserves MISERY. She should be forbidden from ever trying to adopt any kids ANYWHERE. It shows she's not fit to be a parent.

    Suppose someone had kidnapped that 7 yr old boy then raped and killed him because he was sent back to Russia unsupervised ? This did not happen, but if it had, that woman would be deserving of death in my opinion for setting it up to happen. She is a cold and careless woman unfit to be a parent. She should be hounded and harassed until she's old and senile, she should feel guilt and shame for a LONG TIME.
     
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  17. sassafras

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    Regardless of who really is to blame here, we are not talking about a defective piece of equipment. We're talking about a child. If the kid had any sort of reactive attachment disorder (and my guess is it that it probably would've developed from the traumatic loss of his family and his experiences at the orphanage) just imagine what kind of effect this whole ordeal is going to have on him now.

    I think the situation should have been handled with much more care. They should have looked into maintaining some sort of supportive environment for the problem child while the adults involved went about getting to the bottom of their legal issues. After all, you don't just put a seven year old on a plane, alone, and ship him back to where he came from, where he was, allegedly, beaten and abused!

    I agree that the adoptive parents have rights, but they are first and foremost responsible for the well-being of their charge, no matter how problematic he may be. Yes, that probably means that the whole process would have been prolonged and would've probably been terribly inconvenient, but that's part of being the adult and parental-figure in this situation.

    It is my personal opinion that this woman is not ready for parenthood. Not all kids come out happy, shining citizens of PleasantVille. Sometimes there are grave situations that need handling and as a parent, you have to put your own comforts aside to make a positive impact on the development of that one young human being entrusted into your care.
     
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    #17 sassafras, Apr 15, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2010
  18. testing

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    I appreciate and admire your vindictiveness and agree with it. :mjedir:

    Someone should just send her on a plane to Russia; from the sounds of it I think they might take care of it for us.

    Besides, I'm certain there are laws that have been broken: the child was legally adopted and what she did was (among other things) not legal! I believe US law enforcement is looking into the matter from a legal standpoint. That article said there were no charges filed but I think that may not be true.
     
  19. OP
    TheLastMohican

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    In one of the updated stories, I read that he had lived with his mother until age six, when he was removed and placed in the orphanage due to his mother's drinking problem. (If the Hansens knew that, then perhaps they weren't so foolish to believe that the boy was psychologically normal, since he very well might have had a healthy attachment for most of his early life.)
     
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  20. testing

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    Well... but... still, I would hesitate to automatically label him "psychologically abnormal"... he had issues, sure, as any child of an alcoholic would/does.

    But he just did not seem like a severely un-attached child. I still have my doubts that he was that big a "problem child" and I still suspect much of his behavior problems stemmed from major stress and not really knowing/understanding what was going on. NOT permanent scarring resulting from (edit: Complete) lack of attachment.

    Even alcoholics hold their babies, and oftentimes mothers are able to be sttonger/better for the first couple of years and then they backslide. He may have had the opportunity to form *some* attachments, and that, in my experience, goes a remarkably (almost miraculously, it seems at times) long way.

    And trust me, attached and adored children, who have been held and loved and cuddled and all that, sometimes still act violently under stress. We all do!
     
    #20 testing, Apr 15, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2010
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