premarital sex and hookup culture

[alice144]

Dear infjs,
What are your views on premarital sex and 'hookup culture'?
Is it good? Is it bad?
If you can be bothered, take a look at this article.

I realize this is a controversial topic, but all the same I hope that everyone can remain respectful in responding.
Thanks.

 

[5r6jhd]

I read half the article, but don't have the time to properly do so now.

Hmmm. I suppose it's a very interesting topic. I originally thought I'd just be pointing you in the direction of numerous other threads that have been made on casual sex in the last number of weeks/months, but this has actually given me something to think about.

I personally don't have a problem with pre marital sex. I was brought up in a very strict christian enviornment, so it's taken me some time to be able to say this. (Religious guilt, yo!) I think it's better to give in and have sex safely than to be sexually repressed or marry the wrong person too young for the wrong reasons. Not that everyone who waits for marriage is sexually repressed....we all have different needs!

The problem I have the concept of sex being intended for marriage is that it's too idealistic. Just like the concept of mating for life. But I don't want to be Captain Obvious here.

As for hook up culture...I think it's a little sad. I'm all for casual sex if you can handle it and it's done safely, but in todays day and age it's sometimes taken to an extreme that is frankly pathetic. Maybe it has to do with me getting older or something, who knows, but it just feels like a scene of damaged people and insecurity. When I say this, I mean the slut culture...not the odd one night stand or hook up.

I think it all depends on your state of mind. As long as no one is being hurt, I don't think there's anything morally wrong with it, but if you're looking to be taken seriously, it's probably not the best course of action.

Hmmm...it's too early to be debating this. I think I shall regroup and come up with a more coherent argument later.

 

[Cerce]

Honestly, I've been raised in a very Christian environment as well, and from what I've seen in my small-town high school culture, sex only temporarily satisfies. Same can be said for what I've seen in college. I'm not saying premarital sex doesn't feel any better or worse than post-marital sex; on the contrary, if you get the right girl, it can be a helluva lot better sex than in marriage. However, it is my personal opinion that having sex with whoever you feel you should have sex with is wrong, and reduces us to the level of animals looking for the best mate - or not caring and fornicating with as many as possible (which I don't really see that much).

Seriously. If someone tells you that sex before marriage isn't good, they are lying. I'm just saying that it isn't morally correct in my viewpoint, and should be reserved for after marriage. It should also be taken note that I'm still pretty inexperienced in life in general, let alone matters of sexual intent, so if you want a more experienced viewpoint, I'd suggest looking at a few other replies (if and/or when they come in).

 

[Azazel]

What are your views on premarital sex and 'hookup culture'?
Premarital sex – I'm fine with it as long as it's safe and both parties are happy. I think it also applies to married people.
"Hookup culture"... Hmmmm not my cup of tea, I'll put it this way.

Is it good? Is it bad?
In general? Good for some and bad for the others. I only know that not everybody is into it or can handle it,so you decide for yourself.

 

[88chaz88]

However, it is my personal opinion that having sex with whoever you feel you should have sex with is wrong, and reduces us to the level of animals looking for the best mate.

We all do this whether you believe in pre-marital sex or not. After all if you're not looking for the best life partner, what's wrong with you?

Anyway, in my views pre-marital sex is fine as long as you have the emotional maturity to deal with the consequences, whether they be unexpected or not. I'd like to think that most people above the age of 15 do.

 

[Cerce]

We all do this whether you believe in pre-marital sex or not. After all if you're not looking for the best life partner, what's wrong with you?

I was referring to the best sex partner, or mate; not life partner. Sorry if I was a bit unclear D:

 

[this is only temporary]

Dear infjs,
What are your views on premarital sex and 'hookup culture'?
Is it good? Is it bad?
If you can be bothered, take a look at this article.

I realize this is a controversial topic, but all the same I hope that everyone can remain respectful in responding.
Thanks.

I'm re-reading Pride and Prejudice right now, and so it's particularly interesting to me that the author of that article choses Pride and Prejudice as a model for family happiness.

Really, if you read it carefully, it's modelof sexuality and relationships was no such thing. The women were not able to provide for themselves, so they became freaking obsessed with marrying, and marrying for money, not love. Lydia ran off with an officer and risked ruining not only herself but her sisters as well, because sexuality/marriage was so tightly controlled and repressed and commodotized. Love Jane Austen, she's great to read....but no, that is not my idea of happiness or success in families or marriage.

I suppose my ideal is for a society where people are able to be sexual without the kinds of rigid controls and shame societies in the past experienced, but where people are not over-sexualized and expected to hop into bed all the time with anyone and anything. I mean, have some self-respect, you know? People are much more than sexuality.

 

[muir]

I suppose my ideal is for a society where people are able to be sexual without the kinds of rigid controls and shame societies in the past experienced, but where people are not over-sexualized and expected to hop into bed all the time with anyone and anything. I mean, have some self-respect, you know? People are much more than sexuality.

This

I think like everything its about balance; i don't think our society has struck the right balance yet

 

[JGirl]

i don't see anything wrong with premarital sex but the hookup culture is a bit tawdry lol
if you just want to hook up for sex why not arrange a friend with benefits rather than plucking someone indiscriminantly off the internet or at a bar? you never know what you're getting into.

 

[5r6jhd]

i don't see anything wrong with premarital sex but the hookup culture is a bit tawdry lol
if you just want to hook up for sex why not arrange a friend with benefits rather than plucking someone indiscriminantly off the internet or at a bar? you never know what you're getting into.

Friends with benefits is more complicated.

 

[Ghostress~]

I am fine with premarital sex. I'd be hypocritical to say otherwise. I have a healthy, rather frequent sex life with my boyfriend *smiles innocently*
I'm not one for the 'hook-up' culture, though. I am fine with those who choose to do it, as it is their decision, but personally I wouldn't go down that route.

 

[jimtaylor]

I have no issue with pre-marital sex, partially because I see no value to marriage beyond the legal repercussions of marriage. Otherwise, if I feel a strong emotional, intellectual and physical attraction to someone, I don’t see why a social idea like marriage should limit my desire to act on that. With or without marriage, that desire to act and the reason to getting married is still there. I don’t need some institution to verify it or give value to it.

As far as hookups go, I can’t have an opinion until I truly, “hook-up”. I don’t count making out as hooking up and the only persons I have had sexual interactions with, I have been in a relationship with. There have been opportunities for me to “hook-up” but it just never felt right to me, so I didn’t act on it.

Now going on my ideas about pre-marital sex, I just happen to live in the world’s greatest example of how waiting until marriage can be very dysfunctional. Utah has one of the highest divorce rates in the country and the highest porn usage per capita. What this says is you have a lot of sexually repressed individuals who either get married at 18 years old so that they can have sex or they turn to porn which creates an unrealistic expectation of what a healthy sex life is. They fail to gain an actual understanding of the difference between fucking and having an actual intimate relationship with someone.

Plus, there is no way I will ever get married before I have had sex with that person. Intimacy; which includes sex, is an important part of a healthy and functional relationship and without it; it can feel like the relationship is dead. It is just absolutely stupid in my opinion to get married before knowing if I am sexually compatible with a person. This does not mean that I am advocating going to the bar or club and having sex with anything that moves. If that is what you enjoy, do it but if it doesn’t sound like something you want, don’t do it.

I have grown up in a society suppressed by social norms and the extremes that exist here is very unhealthy. You either have the person who doesn’t have sex until they are married at which point they realize they were just desperate for sex. They really don’t have anything in-common with their partner but still because they are married, they feel obligated to try and work it out which more often than not results in a bitter divorce years later after massive amounts of resentment has built up. Or, you have the other extreme which is the person who has no inhabitations what so ever and just goes after anything that looks good to them.

Plus, everybody is so god damn gun shy when it comes to talking about sex; it feels like sometimes I am talking to teenagers who are just learning about puberty and sex. They still are like that teenager who is worried about the fact that they haven’t grown hair in their groin area or their boobs haven’t gotten larger yet, etc… There is such a negative stigma against something that is arguably a very healthy, fun, exciting action that if done in healthy amounts and with the proper precautions is just awesome!

Seriously, if people just weren’t so anxious when it comes to talking about sex, maybe the United States wouldn’t have such a high teen pregnancy rate or STD transmission rate? How hard is it, just to talk to a teen and say, “Here is a condom and this is how you use it.” We buy insurance in case shit happens, not because we are planning on having our house burned down or getting in a car accident. I carry a condom with me, not because I am planning on having sex at the first opportunity but because I would rather be prepared and safe if the special moment arises.

I just don’t see anything wrong with pre-marital sex if like most things, it is done in proper moderation and with safe practices. Doing things like wearing condoms, getting regular checkups and being open with partners. If a girl asked me to get checked for STD’s before we did anything, I would want to marry that girl right then and there. I find that type of openness and maturity the most attractive thing in the world. I would fall in love with that girl because she is not conforming to the pressure to have sex or to not have sex. She is making her own conscious decision to either have sex or not have sex. That type of confidence is sexy.

To finish up my little rant here, I love sex and I think it is one of the most awesome things you can do with a partner. Hopefully I will be able to continue to have sex until the day I die. Not because I want to have sex with a thousand different women but because there is nothing like feeling that closeness and happiness that comes with having sex with someone you have strong emotions for. Sometimes though, you make mistakes and you realize that you are just not sexually compatible with someone. I think long term it is far healthier to find that out long before you decide to make such a commitment like choosing to marry somebody.

Hell reading my rant, the argument could be made that I care more about the commitment that is marriage than most because I realize that there is a lot more to it than just abstaining from sex.

 

[LittleTalks]

I think it depends on the person... But I do think a lot of people who get hurt by the 'hook up' cultures these days (eg. They thought it would be just a fling but then they ended up falling for the person and the person didn't reciprocate) could benefit from waiting a little before going the whole way. I personally couldn't sleep with someone I didn't trust and who, in that instant, I didn't feel I could spend the rest of my life with. But then I'm a hopeless idealist romantic and also a serial monogamist.

Edit: oh wait, by serial monogamist I didn't mean short term relationships, I meant I only go for exclusive longterm relationships (so far at least 3 yrs each time, and hopefully this one is forever!)
The article seems to define serial monogamy as fragile and short term.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

I can't help but compare premarital sex to marital sex.


Sex in marriage - after the honeymoon phase - seems kind of awesome because of the implied trust, mutual care, love, connection with raising a family and all that.

Premarital sex seems kind of empty and selfish in comparison - I mean, how can you be that close and intimate with someone, but be completely open to the possibility of moving on to 'better and greener pastures' later on?

 

[Cerce]

Hell reading my rant, the argument could be made that I care more about the commitment that is marriage than most because I realize that there is a lot more to it than just abstaining from sex.

Exactly. I could not have said it better myself. Granted, I still view premarital sex wrong - but I'm not gonna castrate you because of it or something. People can do as they wish and believe as they wish - same goes for me.

 

[alice144]

The women were not able to provide for themselves, so they became freaking obsessed with marrying

Yeah, sex was definitely a commodity back in the day. It probably still is now, but with all the emphasis on equality between the sexes a lot of us don't want to admit that there's a supply-demand dynamic at work here (baumeister talks about this in greater detail).
So since their material well-being depended upon it, women had to make sure that marriage was an air-tight institution. For better or worse.

It's interesting that you mention shame; from what I've noticed, the people who call girls 'sluts' tend to be men! So you're a 'lesbian bitch' if you don't want them and a 'ho' if you do? Please explain that one for me...

One thing that I've noticed about a lot kids my age is that they gravitate towards stable relationships, whether they choose to marry or not. Many of my friends have been with their significant other for at least a few years; both men and women want companionship.

Short-term, casual relationships don't really do it for me because I've noticed that after sex I tend to feel

• pretty depressed (as do others)
• way more attached to the guy than he does to me (as do others)

Glad you all enjoyed the article.

 

[LittleTalks]

Yeah, sex was definitely a commodity back in the day. It probably still is now, but with all the emphasis on equality between the sexes a lot of us don't want to admit that there's a supply-demand dynamic at work here (baumeister talks about this in greater detail).
So since their material well-being depended upon it, women had to make sure that marriage was an air-tight institution.
.

I'm sorry but that first link you posted is one of the most misogynistic things I have ever read??!

"How to get a girl to send nudes if herself"
"Alpha male of the month"
"Was the sexual and feminist revolution formented by undersexed beta males"
"Alpha male cock hopping"
"but the grand bargain did not work out as intended for the masses of beta males who acquiesced to the new girl order. while alpha males certainly saw more action from "liberated" women, the average joe did not. instead, all the average joe got in return for sacrificing his workplace status in hopes of easier sex was... a heaping helping of humiliation and wage stagnation and anti-joe animus, which continues at an accelerated pace to this day."

"All over the world and throughout history (and prehistory), the contribution of large groups of women to cultural progress has been vanishingly small. "

"We speculate that today’s young men may be exceptionally ill prepared for a lifetime of sexual starvation that is the lot of many modern husbands. The traditional view that a wife should sexually satisfy her husband regardless of her own lack of desire has been eroded if not demolished by feminist ideology that has encouraged wives to expect husbands to wait patiently until the wife actually desires sex, with the result that marriage is a prolonged episode of sexual starvation for the husband. [...] Today’s young men spend their young adulthood having abundant sex with multiple partners, and that seems to us to be an exceptionally poor preparation for a lifetime of sexual starvation."

Hmm forcing anyone to have sex when they dont want to is RAPE, even if you're married to them.
Choosing hookup culture because you think marriage is going to be sexual starvation is just lazy.

"Toss into a social salad bowl already brimming with an influx of non-European immigrants thanks to the 1965 soft genocide act, mix thoroughly, and voila!: a huge, inexorable, relentless leftward shift in American politics, an explosion of single moms, wage stagnation, government growth, upper class childlessness, lower class dysgenics, and a creaking, slow deterioration in the foundational vigor of the nation and the gutting of the pride of her people."
Arghh!

-----

Anyway, regarding hookup culture. There is definitely a supply-demand dynamic, but I think it's based on attractiveness more than gender.

 

[this is only temporary]

Well, I also think it had a lot to do with property and inheritance rights, neither of which women shared in back in Jane Austen's day.

I don't get the whole lesbian/ho thing, you just can't please some people, so my advice is: don't bother trying. I'll have to read the Baumeister thing later.

It seems to be a part of human nature to want some kind of stable relationship. Good relationships seem to require some commitment and trust, and you can call that marriage or not, it just seems to be a thing most people want to some degree. I know it takes me about ten years to even warm up to someone so that inherently requires a stable relationship.

That's AWFUL! I feel awesome after sex, I'm so sorry to hear this isn't the case for a lot of peolple. Seriously, that stinks. Maybe the men don't know what they're doing or something. Yes, oxytocin, the wonder hormone, is also why we put up with so much from our infants, who, believe me are incredibly demanding. :/ I don't know about hookup culture, never having gone in for it in a big way, but I do know no one of any gender should spend any time pursuing someone who doesn't cherish them, and that goes double for you, Alice.


(P.S. After having read this quote: "The traditional view that a wife should sexually satisfy her husband regardless of her own lack of desire has been eroded if not demolished by feminist ideology that has encouraged wives to expect husbands to wait patiently until the wife actually desires sex, with the result that marriage is a prolonged episode of sexual starvation for the husband. [...]"

I KNOW this mindset is coming from --- well, a lack of expertise and probably forcing some poor woman into marriage with a man she doesn't love, maybe? Ya think? Jeeze. Because if a woman has no choice but to marry someone and then pop out kids and have nine toddlers at home, she is naturally not going to want to get it on all the time, and will probably just lay there and submit due to sheer exhaustion. If this is someone's idea of good sex then I feel very sorry for them. If someone loves and trusts you, and is not completely exhausted, they'll usually cooperate even if they are not raging with lust. And if they are completely exhausted or sick, what kind of loser will proceed to force themselves on that person? A rapist loser, that's what kind.)

Read the Baumeister thing a little. You're not going around looking for the most misogynistic crap you can find on the internet are you? Honestly, that's not a great idea, because that is going to give you a very skewed idea of reality. It would be like relying solely on Fred Phelps for your idea of religion. Hardly mainstream.

 

[CaityCatherine]

Hmmm...old-ish thread that has been revived a couple of times. Probably because it's a great topic!

Well, I am not religious and don't buy into any ideas of saving oneself for marriage. When my girls reach dating age, I will request that they wait as long as possible (so they are mature enough emotionally) and until they are in a relationship where it's appropriate to share that level of intimacy with someone else. I also want them to be very open with me when it's going to happen, so I can get them protection.

I was raised in a family where premarital sex was considered a serious sin. I don't share this idea at all, and actually believe that it's better for my kids to live with their partner for a time before they get married and start a family.

 

[alice144]

I'm sorry but that first link you posted is one of the most misogynistic things I have ever read??!

"How to get a girl to send nudes if herself"
"Alpha male of the month"
"Was the sexual and feminist revolution formented by undersexed beta males"

Oh, hey, I gave you the wrong one. I was trying to direct you to the Baumeister paper, here.

Oh wow, I totally didn't read that page at all. :der: