Prediction for Israel and the Middle East

[GracieRuth]

The PA is getting ready to push an initiataive through the UN to recognize Palestine as a sovereign state, using the 1967 borders as the blueprint.

The problem is, many palestinians themselves are opposed to it, because it indirectly acknowledges Israel.

Now matter what happens in the UN, there will be rioting in the streets.

 

[udremeei]

I just pray they find some solution to this which won't end up with the complete marginalization/slaughter of one of the two groups.

Watched a documentary a little while ago, 'Broken Promises', which showed the children of certain groups and other groups. They were about 10 years old, and already had very strong opinions on the situation. Some of them had already been taught to hate. Some had been led to hate by their situation and experiences.

The whole.. goings-on over there makes me very sad. I just wish sometimes we could create bubbles to keep them from hurting one another until they came to a solution.

 

[just me]

If Erdogan has his way, he will do everything he can to cause Israel problems and try to look like the saviour of all those that hate Israel. He is but trying to cause inflammation to a problem most other sane leaders are trying to deescalate. Thanks to the uprisings and support by our American President, Sinai is a new hotbed and some of the hotheads in the Muslim Brotherhood are trying to cause problems for Israel, too.

Erdogan is bound and determined to save face from the MM incident challenging the Gaza blockade; he has now dispatched Turkish frigates in the Mediterranean to "disarm" any Israeli ships outside the 12 mile waters of Israel and try to cause problems for Israel and Cyprus over their oil and gas claims. The last thing on his and many others' minds is the Palestinian situation. Many Arabs do not like Erdogan, and many more Turks as of late due to his actions. The Palestinians remain a convenient pawn to be played in the political arena for most of Israel's enemies.

The Palestinians fired a newer version of missile in the last six days, continuing to fire at civilian targets. Israel continues to target Missile teams. Cairo could do a lot more in the Sinai arena to help calm the waters, but hiring tribes to help can be a risk in itself. Turkey may soon be facing leaving NATO. The old 1967 borders do not offer Israel the security measures needed for their civilians.
JMO

 

[Norton]

When Israel pulled out of Gaza a couple of years ago and essentially restored that border to what it was in 1967, it was rewarded by hundreds of rockets launched into Israel by the Palestinians. So, obviously there's nothing magic about the 1967 borders that's going to bring peace.

 

[Billy]

Sorry we stole your lands, here is a little bit of it back, just not all of it... lets ask the Native Americans how thats working out for them.

 

[just me]

Sorry we stole your lands, here is a little bit of it back, just not all of it... lets ask the Native Americans how thats working out for them.

Is that supposed to be a simile?

 

[Norton]

Sorry we stole your lands, here is a little bit of it back, just not all of it... lets ask the Native Americans how thats working out for them.

So, without sarcasm, what is your proposed credible, realistic, pragmatic solution that will lead to lasting peace in the Middle East?

 

[Kanamori]

"Steal" is a funny word for what happens when people start several wars with you, and the rest of the Arab world tries to blow you up and you win.

 

[the]

You predict rioting in the streets of Israel... thats like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

[just me]

"Steal" is a funny word for what happens when people start several wars with you, and the rest of the Arab world tries to blow you up and you win.

I like that. I guess that is what one calls humor. heh

 

[Billy]

So, without sarcasm, what is your proposed credible, realistic, pragmatic solution that will lead to lasting peace in the Middle East?

Let them fight it out, the winner takes all. Not our business.

 

[Billy]

"Steal" is a funny word for what happens when people start several wars with you, and the rest of the Arab world tries to blow you up and you win.

Yeah, I mean.. its weird, its just... when I look at israelis they look like white people to me, like europeans... its weird, I thought people from the middle east would at least have tans most of the time, like you know... the palestinians and all the other arabs and semites who live there... oh wait I just remembered, most of Israels Jews ARE from Europe or the USA, no wonder those stupid muslims are so angry at those white people coming in AGAIN and taking their lands AGAIN. Gosh they just cant catch a break ya know? If its not the British and Americans its the European crusaders and if its not them its the Romans and if it wasn't them it was the greeks... sheesh. Poor buggers. You'd wonder why they were so sensitive about being displaced.

But you are right, the jews have a tenuous cultural claim to the lands because it says so in the bible! Fuck those darkies we gotta get the whites in power down there, HALLELUJAH!

 

[Norton]

Let them fight it out, the winner takes all. Not our business.

If we cared enough about the Middle East to lose upwards of 3,000 of our military in Iraq, and the same order of magnitude in Afghanistan, what goes on between the Palestinians and the Israelis is quite our business.

Yeah, I mean.. its weird, its just... when I look at israelis they look like white people to me, like europeans... its weird, I thought people from the middle east would at least have tans most of the time, like you know... the palestinians and all the other arabs and semites who live there... oh wait I just remembered, most of Israels Jews ARE from Europe or the USA, no wonder those stupid muslims are so angry at those white people coming in AGAIN and taking their lands AGAIN. Gosh they just cant catch a break ya know? If its not the British and Americans its the European crusaders and if its not them its the Romans and if it wasn't them it was the greeks... sheesh. Poor buggers. You'd wonder why they were so sensitive about being displaced.

But you are right, the jews have a tenuous cultural claim to the lands because it says so in the bible! Fuck those darkies we gotta get the whites in power down there, HALLELUJAH!

You've obviously never traveled in the Middle East. Jews and Arabs are basically the same genetically, and the genome of Jews, even those in Europe, clearly indicates Middle Eastern origins. Both sides in the Arab-Israeli conflict have legitimate complaints, concerns, and grievances. It is a major destabilizing problem not only in the Middle East but for the world. Ignorance is the cause of a lot of problems in the world, not just the Middle East. These are complex problems and, unfortunately, the ability to deal with complexity is being lost to stupidity and ignorance (to wit, Michele Bachmann, Sarah Palin and Rick Perry). What you've said is crude, the opposite of nuanced, and in contrast to the level of sophistication needed to solve these problems.

 

[Billy]

If we cared enough about the Middle East to lose upwards of 3,000 of our military in Iraq, and the same order of magnitude in Afghanistan, what goes on between the Palestinians and the Israelis is quite our business.

Who is this we? I dont think we belong in Iraq or Afghanistan either. Or Germany, or Guam, or South Korea.

You've obviously never traveled in the Middle East. Jews and Arabs are basically the same genetically, and the genome of Jews, even those in Europe, clearly indicates Middle Eastern origins. Both sides in the Arab-Israeli conflict have legitimate complaints, concerns, and grievances. It is a major destabilizing problem not only in the Middle East but for the world. Ignorance is the cause of a lot of problems in the world, not just the Middle East. These are complex problems and, unfortunately, the ability to deal with complexity is being lost to stupidity and ignorance (to wit, Michele Bachmann, Sarah Palin and Rick Perry). What you've said is crude, the opposite of nuanced, and in contrast to the level of sophistication needed to solve these problems.

We dont need sophistication, your heroes by contrast to your hated foes apparently Jimmy Carter and Slick Willy both failed too.

The Jews in Israel are NOT the same as the muslims. You must not have been there yourself. The majority of the Jews in Israel were immigrants after the 1940s. After spending centuries in Europe and America I think they lost the right to the land. It would be like if everyone from South Boston decided to invade Ireland and claim it for themselves as the true Irish and rightful owners. Its BS.

 

[Norton]

The Jews in Israel are NOT the same as the muslims. You must not have been there yourself. The majority of the Jews in Israel were immigrants after the 1940s. After spending centuries in Europe and America I think they lost the right to the land. It would be like if everyone from South Boston decided to invade Ireland and claim it for themselves as the true Irish and rightful owners. Its BS.

So what's your (final) solution? Have six million Israelis commit suicide? Or, maybe we should send them to concentration camps.

And, I have been there and many other places in the Middle East not to mention the rest of the world. Life isn't a tea party.

 

[Billy]

So what's your (final) solution? Have six million Israelis commit suicide? Or, maybe we should send them to concentration camps.

I already told you what my solution is. Its not our problem, pull out our support and any troops and let them fend for themselves. If they win, they win, if they lose they lose, whats so difficult about that? Why is Israel the USA's responsibility? We trapse around the world trying to push our moralistic bullshit on everyone at the end of a gun or starvation ahem excuse me, trade sanctions.

Nice dig with the final solution bit, I lol'd

 

[bamf]

[mods]Debate, but keep it civil.[/mods]

 

[just me]

Billy, I have lost my desire to read your posts. You would do well to read Constantine's Sword, but it might take you a bit of time to understand it. Everyone should read it.

 

[corvidae]

From what I see, the Israel-Palestine conflict is close to a zero-sum game: whoever wins, someone else has to lose. There is too much history, too much cultural baggage for an agreeable situation. As neither a Jew nor Arab I often don't even know where to begin in trying to understand the situation. I admit this mindset creates a problem apparent in politics everywhere: the fringe is often the loudest.

On a purely demographic level, Zionism doesn't seem to be working. Israel is overpopulated, which is reflected in emigration rates and recent protests about costs of living.

 

[Billy]

Billy, I have lost my desire to read your posts. You would do well to read Constantine's Sword, but it might take you a bit of time to understand it. Everyone should read it.

A book on Christian anti-semitism... ummm ok what about it? Also what does that book have to do (in any way) with the Jews in Israel and thier problems that shouldnt be a problem for the USA? Granted I know many of the Jews in Israel were once Americans, but still.. Its nice that you were touched by some random book, but your emotional connection to it puzzles me, what does it have to do with us?