Political Thread: Hardcore difficulty | INFJ Forum

Political Thread: Hardcore difficulty

Discussion in 'News and Politics' started by Reason, Jun 11, 2018.

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  1. Reason

    Reason Get liberated, son

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    Based on the rules articulated in the last few minutes of the above video this thread is a higher difficulty internet argument with the following rule

    Before you can make any response to any political opinion a forum member has posted here, you must rephrase and summerize thier post which you are responding to accurately.

    And by accurately I mean they have to agree with your summary of thier position before you can proceed with any response.

    Dr. Kermit B. Peterson claims this is insanely difficult, I want to see if that is so.

    Please note that although I am extremely laid back in other threads I will be very trigger happy to report people for trolling in this thread for breaking the above mentioned rule, feel free to do the same to me.

    If you post in this thread you are agreeing to follow this rule.

    Also be helpful in further explaining your own points to people so that they can summarize your position accurately, I will also report you if you fail to do this consistently and with the intent of trolling.

    If these rules are not satisfactory then you should not be in this thread. Now, who has the guts to start us off?
     
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  2. Ginny

    Ginny Sister Priestess of BB&C (πάντα ῥεῖ)

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    :friendlywave: I have a question regarding the wording of these summaries. I have no intention of trolling, but in this case I have to ask you to forgive this inconformity. It's just so that I understand this correctly.

    If you say summary, do you mean only the one point someone is referring to, the whole post someone is referring to, or the whole chain of content that has been said before?
    Or would I have had to suffer through watching the video for that information? Because I have a profound and inexplicable aversion to this person.
     
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  3. OP
    Reason

    Reason Get liberated, son

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    The point you are responding to is what you must summarize, if they make 5 points in a single post and you are going to respond to two of them then you must summarize those two.

    This rule might be Ill-defined in some areas but as long as you make a good faith effort to summarize every point you address there shouldn't be too much need to report anyone, you could just say "hey, you missed this part" for something minor. My reporting will only be for rule breaking that is relatively blatant/undeniable.

    And no you don't have to watch the video.
     
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  4. OP
    Reason

    Reason Get liberated, son

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    Personally, I don't think anything has done the 2nd amendment supporters a bigger favor than the UK police seizing and grinding up of knife blades to lower the UK's high number of stabbings. You can't really stack up a high body count with a knife, unless you are just insanely strong. And at that point wouldn't you have to make the streets safe by arresting anyone who is physically capable of overpowering someone? The whole thing wounds the legitimacy of the whole "we just want to ban guns because they kill large numbers in massacres" argument.
     
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  5. OP
    Reason

    Reason Get liberated, son

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    Also there is nothing wrong with asking about the rules
     
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  6. In the Wings

    In the Wings Community Member

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    So what you're saying is, by expanding the ideas of gun control to things like knives, you legitimize the idea that the goal of gun control is not to stop mass shootings, but to control people. You also make that control much more onerous and burdensome.
     
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  7. Cornerstone

    Cornerstone Well-known member

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    I'm a bit confused on the rules. Am I meant to wait for you, or whoever I'm paraphrasing, to respond and say I've gotten the gist or missed their point before making a counterpoint? If so, apologies.

    It sounds like you're saying these kind of approaches are a rejection of the idea that 'guns don't kill people, people kill people' and that it is ultimately incorrect that removing the means for violence will reduce the urge toward violence and therefore, violence itself. I'm not sure if you're suggesting the gun control advocates are more insincere or naive, though.

    If that is the case, I would point out that in the UK these are two different issues. Stricter gun controls were introduced in response to the Dunblane school massacre, and so that was more closely related to the debate going on in the US at the moment. The knife-crime 'epidemic' is related to gang culture, not mass-killings. With the stabbings, the victims are rarely random in the way that mass-killings are. That's not to say the victims were not innocent or defenceless, but there are many relatively isolated incidents with a single victim so they're not the same phenomenon. The only similarity is that innocent people are dying violent deaths.

    The Dunblane massacre involved guns and 17 people were killed, with 15 injured (plus the attacker killed himself). The London Bridge attacks involved no guns (except police) and there 8 deaths, 21 critically injured, and 27 injured (not including the 3 attackers who were shot dead). So, in terms of the body count, I agree that other maximally-lethal means will be used such as the vehicles used to run people down on London Bridge before the attackers got out and started stabbing people. Also, the motivation in a massacre like the London Bridge attack is to spread fear and the use of vehicles and knives is actually more effective for that. I lived 5 minutes from London Bridge at the time and know people who got caught up in that event. No gunshots meant people didn't know who or where the attackers were, which direction to run, or where was relatively safe to hide.

    Now we have barriers along the entire length of the main bridges because they're the only places in central London you can build up enough speed to kill a lot of people in one go with a vehicle. We didn't ban vans or lorries, we built defences. We also had a spate of acid attacks in the UK, too. Arguably, this is because the penalty for carrying a knife is high but there is plausible deniability when carrying corrosive liquids that do horrific damage and is often fatal as well. The body count is not the most pressing issue because you'll end up with more cruel and unusual deaths. The Dunblane massacre was committed with two revolvers and a semi-automatic pistol and there were fewer total casualties than an attack committed with vehicles and knives.
     
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    #7 Cornerstone, Feb 10, 2019 at 6:25 PM
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019 at 6:31 PM
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  8. OP
    Reason

    Reason Get liberated, son

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    I'll accept this as an reasonably accurate rephrasing of my original point.
    yes, it's terribly slow and inconvenient but this is political thread hardcore difficulty not political thread fast and easy
    I think it's bad optics, that is to say bad publicity for the gun control crowd when someone can just innovate their way around a weapons ban and spread chaos in a new and unexpected way. I'm not trying to belittle gun control advocates' position as naïve or disingenuous (although i'm sure there are some in that group who might fit that description) it's just an observation that it is of great use to the 2nd amendment supporter faction in America to campaign to undecided voters.
     
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  9. OP
    Reason

    Reason Get liberated, son

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    So is it correct to say that you believe the thing which differentiates mass shootings with stabbing attacks is the source being gang activities and not these sort of "lone nut" shooter types? And that consequently one cannot really compare the carnage from gang violence with a particular weapon/method to the carnage of gun violence from a lone shooter? Essentially is your point that the two instances are not comparable because of the disparate nature of the two different scenarios involved (one exemplified by The Dunblane massacre and the other by the attack at London Bridge)?
     
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  10. Cornerstone

    Cornerstone Well-known member

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    Sorry, I don't think I will have the patience to participate properly. Already I want to debate whether universal suffrage is a good thing based on your reply so, knowing how I think/write, I'll just mess up this thread. Sounds like a great idea for the chat room, though.
     
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  11. In the Wings

    In the Wings Community Member

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    I don't necessarily disagree with your point about knives so much as I disagree with the idea that mass shootings should've been the focus of gun legislation to begin with. There are plenty more one-off murders, aggravated assaults, rapes, etc. carried out with the help of a gun than mass shootings. The focus should've been more based on preventing bad people from having guns than (As in the US for instance) assault weapons bans.

    Also, while I'm not particularly knowledgeable about this, isn't Britain much further along than the U.S. in terms of gun policy? Are 2nd Amendment arguments even a thing there?
     
    #11 In the Wings, Feb 11, 2019 at 6:51 PM
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019 at 6:57 PM
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  12. OP
    Reason

    Reason Get liberated, son

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    I was referring to the effects of this piece of news from Britain on American politics. Sorry for being unclear about that.
    You have good points, I have no response thank you.
     
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