Political Crybabies Historical and Present | INFJ Forum

Political Crybabies Historical and Present

Flavus Aquila

Finding My Place in the Sun
Banned
Mar 14, 2009
10,032
5,724
1,102
Australia
MBTI
INTJ - A
Enneagram
10000
This is under the Psychology Subforum.

What is going on with people who choose to remain intensely upset after an unchangeable group decision? (Be it elections, corporate decisions, family vacation votes, etc.)

This isn't so much a thread about national, workplace, or family politics, so much about the psychology of individuals who have great difficulty functioning constructively, or at least non-destructively within group/political situations.
 
You act like this is a new thing. Remember when you quit the forum because your white power buddy was banned?
I stopped posting for a while, as a pointless activity, because the posts were becoming entirely predictable and personal.

This thread is about the inability to accept group decisions... which isn't really applicable to how this forum operates, because except for literary competitions, there is no democratic voting in its structure.
 
Why are you so concerned with people having different opinions than you? Not everyone is going to agree and accept the results of a poll regardless of the outcome. To suggest people should just shut up and accept the outcome without opposition is not democratic. People have valid concerns. Just because you do not care about those concerns doesn't make them not valid. It's not like everyone accepted Obama's win in 08 and 12 and people didn't suggest he wasn't legit because he wasn't American (which even Trump who started the "birther" movement admitted this year was false.)

And I like living in a free society. I'm not a fan of Mike Pence, but even he accepted the cast of Hamilton calling him out and said, "That's what freedom sounds like." I'm going to start a thread asking why flavus hates freedom.
 
Last edited:
Short answer - narcissism.

Both sides can do this. I thought at first maybe their ideology was really just that flawed but I think the most likely is the above.
 
Why are you so concerned with people having different opinions than you? Not everyone is going to agree and accept the results of a poll regardless of the outcome. To suggest people should just shut up and accept the outcome without opposition is not democratic. It's not like everyone accepted Obama's win in 08 and 12 and people didn't suggest he wasn't legit because he wasn't American (which even Trump who started the "birther" movement admitted this year was false.)

And I like living in a free society. I'm not a fan of Mike Pence, but even he accepted the cast of Hamilton calling him out and said, "That's what freedom sounds like." I'm going to start a thread asking why flavus hates freedom.
OK. People carried on after Obama was elected... why?

Opposition is natural, relevant, and can be very constructive. This thread is about the psychology of ineffectual and destructive opposition.

So why are you derailing and lampooning this thread? (A sincere reply would be 100% on topic).
 
This is under the Psychology Subforum.

What is going on with people who choose to remain intensely upset after an unchangeable group decision? (Be it elections, corporate decisions, family vacation votes, etc.)

This isn't so much a thread about national, workplace, or family politics, so much about the psychology of individuals who have great difficulty functioning constructively, or at least non-destructively within group/political situations.
about the psychology of individuals who have great difficulty functioning constructively, or at least non-destructively within group/political situations
The Individual & Materialistic Mindset of the world at large...around here we call it the "horray for me ta' hell with you" crowd.
Too much discord and deviciveness instead of collective cohesion.
**On a side note**
The whole fake 'we are a team and every bodies a winner' bullshit that was fed to our youth only leaves them whiny when they have to perform at work, in society or a group that loses. Not EVERYONE can be the winner. It throws off the balance between competitions of any sort. Back when I played sports as a young person, we had a winning team and a losing team. If you were on the losing team you shook the winning teams hands and congratulated them on a job well done...with perhaps a we will kick your ass next time tossed in.
In other arenas...it's all for one and one is king crap. There is no such thing as loyalty, allegiance or teamwork...people are out there sabbotaging each other, making up lies or falsehoods to bounce a person from their position, even sabbotaging a project and for what? To be the big cheese? TopDog? The BigDeal? It's all just greedy & narcissistic...signs of dis-eased minds. Like my tagg says: "Who will pull the wagon if we all get in and ride?" We all can't be Chief. There has to be a few courageous braves to get the actual work done :)
 
I have another, perhaps slightly more controversial opinion about why people continue to protest/complain after they don't get the results they wanted.

You know how sometimes people openly insist on something, repeating themselves over and over again because deep down, they doubt what it is they are saying? I think there is an element of this going on here. It always strikes me as so odd as a Canadian seeing how often Americans emphasize their Freedom. The flag is displayed everywhere. A symbol of liberty and pride. Over here in America, we have FREEDOM. We have so much FREEDOM that we have EXTRA FREEDOM; because we're so AWESOME and FREE we will export that EXTRA FREEDOM to other countries. Teach 'em poor, backward folk some decency and DEMOCRACY. Teach them about the value of FREE SPEECH and what it means to live in a FREE COUNTRY.

All very noble and inspiring, but after hearing it over and over again, it starts to ring a little hollow; maybe even sound a little like someone trying to talk themselves into their own beliefs.

To be clear, I'm not trying to open up a debate about whether Americans are actually free or a democratic country. I'm just saying, it's psychological. When you know something, you know it. You don't talk about it. It's just part of who you are. When you don't know something for sure, however, your behavior is different. You try to prove yourself to everyone. You try to prove your beliefs to yourself.

And I think in the wake of the post 9/11 world, people deep down are beginning to question if they are actually free. I mean, questioning our society and it's influence over our lives is an element of almost every conversation we have these days. We're openly conversing about the box lives we lead (live in a box, drive in a box, work in a box, stare at a box, get buried in a box). We're beginning to question the validity of our organizing systems. Social, political, economical, religious, and all the things that we don't have direct control over but that we are beginning to see play a big, cummulative role in our lives. Some of us see that as the responsibility of our government. Some of us are questioning our government and its motives. Some of us are beginning to question just how much choice we really have when selecting our government. This whole election, regardless of what side you were on, was unquestionably chaotic and in many cases, very suspicious and almost orchestrated in a weird way. People felt like they were only given the illusion of choice, the illusion of freedom. And that kind of stuff sticks in your craw--especially when all your life, you are told you are free and powerful and at liberty to choose. You want to know you still have some kind of power, some semblance of control. So you're going to do what you're convinced represents your power; you're going to lend your voice to it, you're going to talk about it. After all, this is America. What sets you apart is the Freedom of Speech. That's your seat of power... and when you're feeling powerless, that's what you're going to be grasping for. And the more powerless you feel, the more you need to believe you're powerful and thus, the louder and longer you will shout about it.
 
Last edited:
I have another, perhaps slightly more controversial opinion about why people continue to protest/complain after they don't get the results they wanted.

You know how sometimes people openly insist on something, repeating themselves over and over again because deep down, they doubt what it is they are saying? I think there is an element of this going on here. It always strikes me as so odd as a Canadian seeing how often Americans emphasize their Freedom. The flag is displayed everywhere. A symbol of liberty and pride. Over here in America, we have FREEDOM. We have so FREEDOM we even have EXTRA FREEDOM; we will export that EXTRA FREEDOM to other countries. Teach these poor backwards countries some DEMOCRACY. Teach them about the value of FREE SPEECH and what it means to live in a FREE COUNTRY.

All very noble and inspiring, but hearing it over and over again, it starts to sound a little hollow; a little like someone trying to talk themselves into it.

To be clear, I'm not trying to open up a debate about whether Americans are actually free or a democratic country. I'm just saying, it's psychological. When you know something, you know it. You don't talk about it. It's just part of who you are. When you don't know something for sure, however, your behavior is different. You try to prove yourself to everyone. You try to prove your beliefs to yourself.

And I think in the wake of the post 9/11 world, people deep down are beginning to question if they are actually free. I mean, questioning our society and it's influence over our lives is an element of almost every conversation we have these days. We're openly conversing about the box lives we lead (live in a box, drive in a box, work in a box, stare at a box, get buried in a box). We're beginning to question the validity of our organizing systems. Social, political, economical, religious, etc. Some of us are questioning our government and how much choice we really have. This whole election, regardless of what side you were on, was unquestionably chaotic and in many cases, very suspicious and almost orchestrated in a weird way. People felt like they were only given the illusion of choice. And that kind of stuff sinks into the back of your mind. You want to know you still have some kind of power, some semblance of control. So you're going to do what you're convinced represents your power; you're going to lend your voice to it, you're going to talk about it. After all, this is America. What sets you apart is the Freedom of Speech. That's your seat of power... and when you're feeling powerless, that's what you're going to be grasping for.
It sounds as though you're saying that "getting one's way" becomes overloaded with the frustrations of a life that normally has very few choices.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandie33
How is this not about the election? (Just wondering because all your post have been political steamrollers lately.)

If the issue is petty and the person refuses to "let the issue go" - ie vacation, dinner out, etc, the behavior stems from immaturity, underlying relationship issues, poor communication, etc.

If the issue is political power, every citizen has the right to care very deeply about the wellness of their nation, and sometimes that means disagreeing with the government. Being informed often means disagreeing with a government.

It makes no sense to compare the two situations. One is petty, the other is not.
 
God forbid that one topic inspires another.

Let's lynch Flavus!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stu
OK. People carried on after Obama was elected... why?

People stubbornly debated whether or not Obama was even born in the US for 8 years because they were so against accepting him as their president. It was embarrassing, how long people (primarily Republicans) went on about it. Trump himself didn't give a statement finally accepting it until late this year, although it's nice that he did, given that plenty of Americans still don't. Hopefully they'll follow his example in that regard.

That particular long-winded protest was just moronic, but people have a right to protest, then and now. The issue for me is when these protests become violent - no matter how upset you are, there is never any justification for your protest materializing in the form of harm against others. If you have it in you to violently attack, say, Republicans because you're angry about the results of this election, then you forfeit any right to protest, you forfeit the right to respect, and you forfeit the right to question someone's integrity when you, yourself, are lacking any. You can protest, that is your right, your freedom, but if you're going to do so, do it peacefully, respectfully, and gracefully. Otherwise, you're nothing short of a hypocrite.

People are upset now, as they have been in the past, because they are being reactive, overreacting at times I will admit, to the possibility of things happening they don't like, rather than responding to those things actually happening. There is more emotion involved than reason, in my opinion, at least as far as the violent protests are concerned.
 
It sounds as though you're saying that "getting one's way" becomes overloaded with the frustrations of a life that normally has very few choices.

There may be an element of that too, yes, but think a little bigger. Fundamentally, it's a break down of spirit. People want to be certain. People want things to be clear and not messy. But most of all, people want to feel like they matter. And right now, post 9/11, the big issue is feelings of powerlessness. Being meaningless and voiceless. These people grew up being told that they were special and could do anything they put their mind to but those ideals didn't stand up to reality; they're realizing life is a bit more complicated than that. Certain ideologies that are popular right now further circumvent one's personal power as issues are brought into awareness. We are made to be aware of how much we're part of the whole and the power that whole has and how little the individual matters.

It's a major cognitive dissonance
 
God forbid that one topic inspires another.

Let's lynch Flavus!

If your joke is in reference to my post I'd appreciate it if you not imply I want harm to come to people I may disagree with. I respect Flavus.

Sharing differing point of view and perspectives is often better for expanding one's mind than hearing the same points-of-view echoed back.
 
If your joke is in reference to my post I'd appreciate it if you not imply I want harm to come to people I may disagree with. I respect Flavus.

Sharing differing point of view and perspectives is often better for expanding one's mind than hearing the same points-of-view echoed back.


Get over it.
 
Hey @the, you misspelled your user name. It should be T-R-O-L-L. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stu, dang and acd
There may be an element of that too, yes, but think a little bigger. Fundamentally, it's a break down of spirit. People want to be certain. People want things to be clear and not messy. But most of all, people want to feel like they matter. And right now, post 9/11, the big issue is feelings of powerlessness. Being meaningless and voiceless. These people grew up being told that they were special and could do anything they put their mind to but those ideals didn't stand up to reality; they're realizing life is a bit more complicated than that. Certain ideologies that are popular right now further circumvent one's personal power as issues are brought into awareness. We are made to be aware of how much we're part of the whole and the power that whole has and how little the individual matters.

It's a major cognitive dissonance
I disagree based on uncertainty of what's being said. Perhaps I'm not getting the whole picture behind your meaning of cognitive dissonance in this regard? As a means for debate and my clarification...
But most of all, people want to feel like they matter.

These people grew up being told that they were special and could do anything they put their mind to but those ideals didn't stand up to reality; they're realizing life is a bit more complicated than that.

ideologies that are popular right now

Every human is unique in how they make their choices.

From my understanding "ideals" are abstract and not concrete. Do not most confuse ideals and beliefs? And often folks become so rigid in their belief of what the collective system aught to be as opposed to the direction it is actually taking?
We are made to be aware of how much we're part of the whole and the power that whole has and how little the individual matters.
But wouldn't it be reticent to differentiate between personal ideals and beliefs while working to find a collective universal set of ideals and beliefs?
With all of the folks crying "I" for individualism the divisiveness will continue to grow expotentially as generations arrive, yes?