Narcissistic Personality Disorder

[Switchgirl]

Hi guys.

I need your help. I strongly believe my mother has Narcisstic Personality Disorder. She's has all the symptoms. She constantly needs admiration and attention, no empathy for others, and she's extremely sensitive.

For all the 19 years of my life, all she would ever do is break down my self esteem. Everyday I have to hear about some stupid flaw about my looks from her. Sure I know she "cares," but she does it in a really condescending, hurtful way. It has really broken down my self esteem and I can't even look mirror without thinking that I'll be good enough for her.

She's always so negative, and it really drains me out. Today I just had enough of her negativity and told her that she should be more positive and to stop caring about her looks. I told her she is beautiful the way she is and that she should stop caring about her looks. Also, after holding it in for 19 years, I told her that her comments hurt my feelings.

Unable to accept this "criticism," she lashed out on me as if she was possessed by a demon and told me that I am an evil, ungrateful child. She told me that she hates me and that she will never take care of me again, and that I am stupid for thinking that she cares about her looks. I don't even know what the fuck I did, but honestly I don't know what to do anymore. I feel like breaking down.

I can't believe my own mom was capable of saying those things to me. I don't know what to do, or how to fix things with her. I tried talking to her again and told that i love her so much and she screamed "no you don't."

Has anyone else dealt with NPD, or a parent with NPD? I feel hopeless right now

 

[Lark]

Love and hate are the two strongest human affects and emotions, its not uncommon to see that they exist in the same person in close or caring interrelationships. Relationships between family members can be particularly problematic too, particularly during adolescence or between adults and their parents, there's a whole long history there and change in those relationships will be up against that.

One thing I would say when it comes to diagnosing another family member as mentally ill or exhibiting a personality disorder, particularly parents, is to be aware that the old saying "the fruit doesnt fall too far from the tree". If this is true, then there's a high likelihood that you possess traits which are a legacy of being reared by that sort of individual.

I'm not trying to be an asshole by writing that and would have to consult some other source to tell you about dealing with NPD but I tend to believe there is a lot of truth in maxims like "nothing human is foreign to me" when it comes to understanding yourself and others and dealing with it all.

 

[Poetic Justice]

My brother is narcissistic and has spent much of his life trying to negatively imapct mine.

You don't need this persons permission to be happy, you don't need it to be right, you don't need it to be beautiful.

 

[SpecialEdition]

Calling [MENTION=2578]Kgal[/MENTION]

 

[Keirouen]

My mom cares a lot about her looks too. Makeup and the gym have been her best friends her whole life. She cares about my looks too but her obsession really only extends to herself. Also she doesn't have any obvious self-esteem issue.

When I was a child she was always dressing me up and doing my makeup. So I used to care too much about my looks in middle school. But I accepted myself and I know I can look incredible if I want to.

Your situation is different. My mom knows I'm logical and objective. She knows that I know I look good. She knows I don't really care what she thinks of my looks. The only thing ingrained in me about my appearance is having long hair and an aversion to excessive piercings and tattoos. But hell, she got her black eyeliner tattooed so she had less to bother with XD

Now NPD. My dad would say my mom is a narcissist. My mom would say I'm a narcissist. I would say I have narcissistic tendencies (intjs can't help it) but I fight to control it.

I belive me and my mom are both narcissists. She always compared my whole family and me specifically to other people she knows to point out our flaws. My dad had huge arguments with her where he pointed it out and she wouldn't listen. She only listened when I pointed it out and acknowledged I'm right. But she slips once in a while.

If your mom is willing to hear you out there's a chance of coming to terms with it. For the record, I think what you did was the right thing to do. Don't feel bad about what you said. If you feel you weren't tactful and hurt your mom's feelings, just find a calm moment and further explain your feelings.

I'm starting to realize now that my mom accepts me for who I am largely because I stand by what I say. I don't back down. I'm firm with my beliefs. She has no choice but to accept me.

But with all her flaws, you know she's not a very "usual" estj lady. You have my support. I hope for the best!

 

[LucyJr]

Hi guys.

I need your help. I strongly believe my mother has Narcisstic Personality Disorder. She's has all the symptoms. She constantly needs admiration and attention, no empathy for others, and she's extremely sensitive.

For all the 19 years of my life, all she would ever do is break down my self esteem. Everyday I have to hear about some stupid flaw about my looks from her. Sure I know she "cares," but she does it in a really condescending, hurtful way. It has really broken down my self esteem and I can't even look mirror without thinking that I'll be good enough for her.

She's always so negative, and it really drains me out. Today I just had enough of her negativity and told her that she should be more positive and to stop caring about her looks. I told her she is beautiful the way she is and that she should stop caring about her looks. Also, after holding it in for 19 years, I told her that her comments hurt my feelings.

Unable to accept this "criticism," she lashed out on me as if she was possessed by a demon and told me that I am an evil, ungrateful child. She told me that she hates me and that she will never take care of me again, and that I am stupid for thinking that she cares about her looks. I don't even know what the fuck I did, but honestly I don't know what to do anymore. I feel like breaking down.

I can't believe my own mom was capable of saying those things to me. I don't know what to do, or how to fix things with her. I tried talking to her again and told that i love her so much and she screamed "no you don't."

Has anyone else dealt with NPD, or a parent with NPD? I feel hopeless right now

NPD is not a isorder that can be treated with drugs, or with any psychological tools and methods, except perhaps counseling.
The real problem is behaviour, some deeply ingrained vices that are like strong habits. If you are interested in more, I recommend to read Ethics by Aristotle or some treatise on habits and moral vices in classic philosophy. You will understand exactly what is the root problem of narcissism.

 

[Lark]

Erich Fromm considered narcissism a trait of all individuals, compounded or reinforced by culture and social character as society and the economy required, he suggested that one of the factors in terminable counselling or therapy was an awareness of ones own narcissism and a willingness to work it out.

In so far as I understand it the worst cases of narcissism are totally unconscious or rationalised as something other than narcissism by those experiencing it. Although that could be said for a lot of personality disorders or disorderly conduct more generally. It also indicates a sort of Socratic hope that there is no such thing as evil or wicked conduct where there is awareness and ignorance has been banished (a very old saying that "if they knew good, they would do good").

I read some good sources on narcissism which described the narcissistic personality as being highly deployed, they are constantly on the offensive as the best kind of defense and their egos are incredibly fragile. So an immense amount of psychological investment in psychological denial and psychological defensiveness is necessary. I'm sure this isnt the experience of anyone who has had any dealings with narcissists, anyone I know who has fit that frame of reference I've been advised by professionals is not susceptible to any kind of intervention until they experience a complete crisis and breakdown. Those are much rarer than is commonly thought and most crisis are partial dont occasion the sorts of complete or near complete psychological instability or destabilisation which presents the opportunity for change.

These sorts of personality structures are occasioned following massive psychological injuries, usually early in life, sometimes compounded during later years and adolescence when the brain's plasticity is at its greatest, so its imprinted, stamped on the brain and as changeable as someones height, eye colour, hair colour or physical stature. A lot of the time that they do come into contact with professional help its not as a result of the underlying NPD problem but some presenting problem or something symptomatic, such as depression or mood swings or dysfunction all occasioned by the individuals experience of the world as at best too unaccomodating and uncompromising or at worst an open conspiracy against them.

Although one caveat to all this is that when using a set of behaviours as diagnostic criteria there's lots and lots of variables to be considered, the sustainability of the behaviour and change are only a subsequent question once the existence of a diagnostic label has been determined or not, whether the labelling of behaviour is liable to improve prospects for adjustment or adaptation or not is an open question too.

 

[Kgal]

My brother is narcissistic and has spent much of his life trying to negatively imapct mine.

You don't need this persons permission to be happy, you don't need it to be right, you don't need it to be beautiful.

Wow....I'm so sorry to see you in pain. Reading your post brought up some old memories of sadness within me. I can imagine you might be feeling betrayed about now.... Confused and worried and afraid too.

What Poetic Justice says is the truth. It might take you several steps before you come to integrate it into your world view...but don't fear....you'll get there. So throw away the hopeless feeling state of mind. You won't need it.

So on to the steps. The stages of Grief come to my mind....Hmmm.... It sounds as if you are not going to be stuck in the denial phase which means you are moving to the anger phase.

When I found out my mom was a narcissist it was as if a light bulb went off in my head. Then I found this site on Narcisstic Mothers and my mind was blown at how accurate their descriptions of the roles within the family matched my own. I was the perfect daughter and my sister was the rebel daughter. Our father even matched the role they described. This knowledge helped me understand the disorder and it's impacts on my family and my self. It helped me formulate plans of action leading to my own healing. This ultimately led me to take my power back from my mom and attain peace of mind. http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/

You will be able to do all of these things too if you allow your self to go through the grief process.

Why grieving you may ask? Because you're going to have to let go of the ideas - concepts - beliefs - you hold about your Mother. She is not the mother you think she is. She is not the mother you think she should be. She is not the mother you need now - nor was she the mother you needed as a child. In short: She is not a Mother....She is a person who birthed you and then raised you according to her needs.

This is hard thing to accept. There is no bond as strong and powerful as that with a child to it's mother and the one between Narcissist Mom and her daughters is thick.

The idea of losing the bond with the mother creates strong abandonment emotions of Fear to come up within us. This is a big challenge and one you will need walk through to get to the peace of mind you wish. There will be many painful moments for you as you uncover the negative beliefs you hold about your self came to you directly from your mom. You will see how she holds your safety over your head to trap you into loving her....serving her. You might howl in disbelief when recognizing the depths of her manipulation over you.

I suggest you read through topics of whatever speaks to you from the website. Really begin looking at your actions within the family. What thoughts and emotions come up for you? What training did you receive from your Mom to serve her needs against your own wishes - your own core ethics?

If you like writing - keep a journal of what comes to your mind as you observe your self with the new knowledge.

On the Anger: You might as well figure out another way of honoring and expressing your anger. You cannot project it on your mother. She will never accept it until you make peace with it in your self first. You will get no lasting satisfaction by yelling at her or trying to get her to take responsibility for your anger. To be clear - you have reason to be very angry - but such is the nature of the disorder you will get no resolution with your mother.

You will need to find a way to encourage and then allow the anger in you to come up and out.
I wrote some of mine in journal entries while growling deep from my gut. I also devised some earth rituals where I burned pictures of her and bawled my eyes out. I don't know your circumstances - but start looking for places and/or ways to express your anger in a safe environment.

I have a friend who plays the piano and he plays really angry sounding pieces so he can bang the keys. I have also danced and shouted words anger while visualizing my mom during the music while letting my imagination cut the cord between me and mom. Let yours play around with the idea of expressing and honoring and allowing your anger at your mom to come up and out of you.

Once you grieve and accept the fact your mom is not a mom - the rest will begin to flow for you. You'll find ways to establish boundaries to protect your heart by forcing some distance between you and her. Observing the dynamics of the relationship will give you ideas.

There's more to the process....but I think this is enough for you to ponder for now.

Just know you will get through this.

 

[Switchgirl]

You don't need this persons permission to be happy, you don't need it to be right, you don't need it to be beautiful.

Thank you so much for this. Honestly. I really hope things are going well for you, and that you're free from all of that suffering.

Wow....I'm so sorry to see you in pain. Reading your post brought up some old memories of sadness within me. I can imagine you might be feeling betrayed about now.... Confused and worried and afraid too.

What Poetic Justice says is the truth. It might take you several steps before you come to integrate it into your world view...but don't fear....you'll get there. So throw away the hopeless feeling state of mind. You won't need it.

Once you grieve and accept the fact your mom is not a mom - the rest will begin to flow for you. You'll find ways to establish boundaries to protect your heart by forcing some distance between you and her. Observing the dynamics of the relationship will give you ideas.

There's more to the process....but I think this is enough for you to ponder for now.

Just know you will get through this.

Hi [MENTION=2578]Kgal[/MENTION],

Thank you so much for your heart-felt response. It pains me to know that you’ve been through something similar, because no one deserves this treatment, but on the other hand I’m so relieved that you can relate to me so well. I can’t even imagine the pain and suffering you’ve been through, and despite it all, you've remained such a kind-hearted and empathetic person.

Also, thank you so much for sending me that website. As I read through some of the articles, my heart shook. We’re definitely not alone in this struggle, which is just awful.. Sometimes I question why she even gave birth to me.

I’ve never once felt any sense of warmth or love from her. Even as a child, when I tried to show her affection, I remember her pushing me away, or being repulsed by me. I was a well-behaved and quiet child, but even when I would cry quietly when she was being mean to me, I remember her digging her nails into my skin, then slapping and yelling at me to stop crying, because "it’s weak.”

Another twisted thing I remember is that she loved to bathe me in scalding hot water. The water was so hot that I remember crying to her, telling her that it was too hot and that it was burning me, but I all I can remember is her making the water even more hotter. It was absolute torture. It’s hard to accept the realization that what has been your “normal,” is actually far from normal. I’ve only realized now seriousness the trauma in my childhood after writing all of this.

Dealing with a Narcissistic parent can feel painfully lonely at times, and sometimes I even doubt myself. I guess I’m shifting back and forth between the grief and denial stage.

The problem is, is that she’s REALLY NICE. I’m just so confused! It doesn’t make sense to me at all.. Outside people absolutely ADORE her, and she really knows how to charm others! She has been really “sweet” to me as well, but I’ve noticed this niceness is only present if I constantly shower her with compliments, and stay on her side. If I say ONE LITTLE THING that disagrees with her t the slightest, she goes wacko demon mode. It all feels so freakin' superficial! I feel like I have a 2 year old mom! Funny thing is though, I feel as if I've been infantilized by her. She treats me like her baby, and hell sometimes I feel like I AM a baby, or a "Momma's girl." She always says to me "Mommy will always take care of you, you always NEED mommy." She's done a lot for me (tooooo much), and involves herself a lot in my life. It's just so ironic to me, because I thought it was out of love, but now I can see it is a form of control.. It's just too much to take in.

After her outbreak, she chose not leave her room for the entire day. I can’t help but feel so guilty when she gives me the silent treatment. I feel as if my relationship with her consists of walking on eggshells. If I say ONE wrong thing, I could come home to my mom dead because she committed suicide (she ALWAYS talks about committing suicide..).

I’ve been struggling with serious eating disorders, anorexia, and self-esteem issues, and I could never figure out why until I looked back and thought upon my Mother’s harsh words to me. One insidious trait that I’ve picked up from her is vanity. I’m constantly obsessed with my looks, contemplating plastic surgery, and terrified to gain any weight. My mom has been pounding in my head since childhood that “Looks are the most important thing in this world.”

Fortunately, my current boyfriend has been amazing and understanding, and has helped me with my self-esteem issues. It will take a while, but I feel like I’ll eventually be able to look at the mirror with confidence and accept myself for who I am one day. Recently, I’ve taken a more spiritual path and have tried meditation and yoga to put my mind at ease. It’s been helping a lot.

I definitely will have to take account in investing in a journal, because wow, just look how long this post is. You’re right about expressing anger in other activities, rather than expressing it to the N mom. That happened to me yesterday, and things did NOT end well.

I’d like to thank you again, [MENTION=2578]Kgal[/MENTION], for your kind words and advice. Your post has helped me in so much more than you could possibly imagine. Stay strong, love. I’m so sorry for this loooooong post! It felt so good to let this all out, though. I’d love to hear more about your situation, and other things you have done to cope, if you don’t mind.

 

[pacifc]

I have a personal experience with narcissist myself. From what I have felt, have seen, read and concluded is that such people are very hard convince. They would never accept other's point because they believe what they perceive is the ground truth. In such circumstances, the subconscious mind always makes them feel right about things so they never feel the guilt.

What I can say is: either deal with it or break it. In your case, I would suggest the first. Don't talk about that thing to her again but at the same time do not feed anything to her narcissism (admiration, excessive appreciation etc). Try avoiding the points at which you can likely run into conflict. Another thing is to move from home for studies or college. In this way, you would be coming home only on vacations and it is possible that since you are not frequent visitor. This can mitigate the problem of daily ego clashes that can lead to horrible scene in the end.

All the best

 

[Poetic Justice]

Narcissism at it's heart is a series of coping mechanisms for fears and insecurities. It is a a series of delusions and stretegies for maintaining their belief in those delusions.

They create a persona of infallability and perfection to protect themselves from criticism. Deep down they know they aren't perfect. But they really want to. They want to believe they are the person they make themselves out to be. They fear anything which reminds them that they aren't this person.

You not doing as your told reminds them that they don't have absolute authority. You being better than them at something reminds them that they aren't the best at everything. Etc

You have three options:

1. Pretend their delusions are true. They will value your contribution to their ego so much that it's likely they won't want to piss you off too much and will reduce the amount of abuse they give you

2. Wait for them to (maybe) realise their faults and try to change. This can happen. YOU CANNOT MAKE IT HAPPEN!! They have to do it themselves. Any attempt to help them will be seen as a threat to their fragile ego. After all, in order for them to act on your advice they have to acknowledge that they are imperfect

3. Say "goodbye" and get on with your life, absent this anchor around your neck. I know she's your mother but depending on how bad she is I would say this is a definate option

 

[Kgal]

Thank you so much for this. Honestly. I really hope things are going well for you, and that you're free from all of that suffering.



Hi @Kgal ,

Thank you so much for your heart-felt response. It pains me to know that you’ve been through something similar, because no one deserves this treatment, but on the other hand I’m so relieved that you can relate to me so well. I can’t even imagine the pain and suffering you’ve been through, and despite it all, you've remained such a kind-hearted and empathetic person.

Also, thank you so much for sending me that website. As I read through some of the articles, my heart shook. We’re definitely not alone in this struggle, which is just awful.. Sometimes I question why she even gave birth to me.

I’ve never once felt any sense of warmth or love from her. Even as a child, when I tried to show her affection, I remember her pushing me away, or being repulsed by me. I was a well-behaved and quiet child, but even when I would cry quietly when she was being mean to me, I remember her digging her nails into my skin, then slapping and yelling at me to stop crying, because "it’s weak.”

Another twisted thing I remember is that she loved to bathe me in scalding hot water. The water was so hot that I remember crying to her, telling her that it was too hot and that it was burning me, but I all I can remember is her making the water even more hotter. It was absolute torture. It’s hard to accept the realization that what has been your “normal,” is actually far from normal. I’ve only realized now seriousness the trauma in my childhood after writing all of this.

Dealing with a Narcissistic parent can feel painfully lonely at times, and sometimes I even doubt myself. I guess I’m shifting back and forth between the grief and denial stage.

The problem is, is that she’s REALLY NICE. I’m just so confused! It doesn’t make sense to me at all.. Outside people absolutely ADORE her, and she really knows how to charm others! She has been really “sweet” to me as well, but I’ve noticed this niceness is only present if I constantly shower her with compliments, and stay on her side. If I say ONE LITTLE THING that disagrees with her t the slightest, she goes wacko demon mode. It all feels so freakin' superficial! I feel like I have a 2 year old mom! Funny thing is though, I feel as if I've been infantilized by her. She treats me like her baby, and hell sometimes I feel like I AM a baby, or a "Momma's girl." She always says to me "Mommy will always take care of you, you always NEED mommy." She's done a lot for me (tooooo much), and involves herself a lot in my life. It's just so ironic to me, because I thought it was out of love, but now I can see it is a form of control.. It's just too much to take in.

After her outbreak, she chose not leave her room for the entire day. I can’t help but feel so guilty when she gives me the silent treatment. I feel as if my relationship with her consists of walking on eggshells. If I say ONE wrong thing, I could come home to my mom dead because she committed suicide (she ALWAYS talks about committing suicide..).

I’ve been struggling with serious eating disorders, anorexia, and self-esteem issues, and I could never figure out why until I looked back and thought upon my Mother’s harsh words to me. One insidious trait that I’ve picked up from her is vanity. I’m constantly obsessed with my looks, contemplating plastic surgery, and terrified to gain any weight. My mom has been pounding in my head since childhood that “Looks are the most important thing in this world.”

Fortunately, my current boyfriend has been amazing and understanding, and has helped me with my self-esteem issues. It will take a while, but I feel like I’ll eventually be able to look at the mirror with confidence and accept myself for who I am one day. Recently, I’ve taken a more spiritual path and have tried meditation and yoga to put my mind at ease. It’s been helping a lot.

I definitely will have to take account in investing in a journal, because wow, just look how long this post is. You’re right about expressing anger in other activities, rather than expressing it to the N mom. That happened to me yesterday, and things did NOT end well.

I’d like to thank you again, @Kgal , for your kind words and advice. Your post has helped me in so much more than you could possibly imagine. Stay strong, love. I’m so sorry for this loooooong post! It felt so good to let this all out, though. I’d love to hear more about your situation, and other things you have done to cope, if you don’t mind.

I'm sorry it took me so long to respond to this.... I...uhhh...guess I couldn't deal with it until now. I saved your post and had it waiting in my inbox for the right timing and I suppose now is the time....

I had a conversation with my Sister on Friday about this topic and I told her again she might as well grieve the loss of the mother she never had...for she will not ever have one. She had been going on and on about all of the things she's done for Mom and/or things she's accomplished and Mom never acknowledges them....never. I asked my sister why was it so important to her that Mom tell her she's done very well (on many things). I told her I tell her she's great....her long term love/boyfriend/mate tells her she's wonderful all the time and she has many friends and relatives who tell her the same. She admitted she didn't really understand why she needed Mom to tell her....and she's miserable for trying to the one thing where Mom will tell her she's wonderful.

Do you see how insidious the Narcissistic relationship is? Here she is - 56 years old - and still wanting the approval from her mother. It would be better if Mom was dead. That way my sister could grieve her passing and then learn to be her own nurturing mother for the inner child who never received any. She can accomplish that now....if she would actively start the grieving process over the death of the imaginary mother in her mind. She keeps thinking if she does that one thing....that one perfect act....that Mom will finally wake up and be a loving mother. [shakes head no].... That'll never happen....unless Mom has a near death experience and sees the Light.

As for why your mother had you....there could be an infinite number of reasons. My theory as to why my Mom had us is because that was what women did. They had babies and families and lived life happily ever after. Mom thought if she had children they would love and adore HER for the rest of her life. No matter what I did for her it was never enough....never...and she was extremely jealous of me.

One of the most damaging behavior patterns she instilled in me was the fact I was never good enough and I was too needy. As a result I grew up being a giver but not a receiver. It took me 50 years to break through into a recovery of sorts from that deeply ingrained pattern and I'm still working at eliminating it. I'm wayyyyyy better....but not totally free from it yet.

I'm sorry for the pain she inflicted upon you as a child. Those were traumatic events and the emotional baggage is still imbedded within your body. I highly encourage you to find a counselor/therapist who is adept in EMDR and explore releasing those old traumas. It will help you greatly with your disorders you're struggling with.

YES! They can act and appear soooooo nice! This is infuriating - isn't it? It makes you question your sanity and doubt yourself undermining your self confidence. About 3 years ago I can remember being so gratified when Mom acted the ass she is right in front of my cousins. Later as we talked about it they said they never knew Mom could be that way and acted in such a manner to me. I told them it's been that way my whole life. They were soooo sorry to see it and said their Mom's had never treated them with such disrespect.

You are very welcome for what I shared and I hope you are able to heal yourself of those wounds inflicted by her. Anytime you want to talk - tag me here and I'll come and talk when I can.

In the meantime....
- express your gratitude every day for being a loving human being
- give your self your unconditional love
- keep writing out your emotions in your journal - especially the hatred and anger you feel towards her. (Growl if you need to :w.
- start looking at her like she's a person - NOT your mother

May you be at ease.
Namaste'

 

[Artisan]

I'm no expert on how to deal with people, but for me, a lot of the problems I had with my mom are a lot lot less since I moved out and ended up calling my mum no more than maybe once every 2 months.
I never tried to change her and I never feel like calling her. I actually always have to mentally prepare myself to make a call to my mom. And the only reason I call, Is cause she starts crying and stuff to my brother if I don't.

Shes messed up in other ways then a NPD though. All I can say is a lot of parents who cause pain to their children will never realize it or believe it is true when the child mentions it. Usually up until they're dying or the very end.

As for the comments she makes that hurt you, just keep in mind, Every person is beautiful in their own way. And you absolutely do not need to believe a person who's words always hurt you. Even if you do believe them that is only your perception which was influenced by her. If you ask any person on this forum, I am sure they will see things in you and perceive you in ways that will warm your heart.

If you feel the need to just get it all of your chest, and need to talk to someone in a similar position but a different boat, or just wanna talk feel free to pm me.
Because I understand what it is like to feel hurt by your own mother, all be it in different ways then you.