Me and an ESTP

Ask Dr Cokenut.

 

CokeNut would be the one to ask... she's the resident ESTP... she is also my g/f and signifcant other...

if you were asking if it is possible, yes... but it also takes a good deal of understanding from you both... its all on what you want...

 

Hey PandaGirl - I hope this provides some insight for you ... but feel free to ask away on anything that you want to know. Jax and I have been together for well over a year and it has been downright testing at times ... and exceedingly wonderful at others.

I think the ESTP/INFJ attraction happens because we are awed by our counterpart; we feed off of the traits we see in the other that are lacking within ourselves. It’s exciting to be able to see the world through the eyes of another, especially if the other sees a world 180 degrees from your own.

You speak of love after only one month of dating … that is scary stuff to an ESTP. At this point we are still trying to figure out different ways to get you naked! Seriously, at this point we are still having fun; we haven’t even begun to think long term, at best we may be thinking how you fit into our here and now, but that’s about it.

INFJs claim to have heightened intuition, but sometimes you get so stuck in your world, behind your tall walls, that you forget there are real people on the other side. A week after we started dating Jax told me that I was capturing his heart - I replied by telling him that if he spoke anymore such nonsense I was going to dump him like a bad habit. A week later he told me he loved me, and I broke up with him. I WAS TERRIFIED!!!! Who was this psycho that falls in love (and worse yet, admits to it) after only two weeks? When I told Jax it was over he said he knew I would say that but he couldn’t stop himself from saying he loved me. Why? Because while he was busy dreaming of the next 30 years he forgot to listen to his intuition telling him that I was scared and I was not ready to hear it!

I guess the bottom line is that yes, we are sensor junkies - our reliance on passion and emotion are not just a guide to our romantic relationships; they are absolutes. If our mate can not ignite our passion and feed our emotions, then the relationship is irrelevant. We may still get with you, and even admire you and wish things were different, but we will never be happy with you.

When your ESTP refers to missing something intangible he refers to that ‘something’ that makes his body and emotions react … that spontaneous laughter, that kiss for no reason, a wink in public, a naughty whisper in his ear … he needs you to turn him on, challenge him, surprise him, invigorate him and adore him. Yes we demand adoration, nothing less will ever be enough — ESTPs are not needy, we are greedy beyond belief.

Your ESTP has already told you that he knows what he wants; don’t doubt it for a minute, but keep in mind that ESTPs live in the here and now — what we want at any given time is based on any number of factors: life experience, passing time, change in circumstances, emotional maturity, etc. What is more important is that YOU know what you want. Are you really willing to put up with the ESTP personality? We are very touchy feely which can drive any self respecting INFJ to dream of poisons in our coffee; and we are also easily bored which means that you will have to constantly find ways to keep our interest. It’s a lot to ask, and you have to be ready to do it. Jax stepped up to the plate, but he is able to do it because when he can’t do it anymore I have the sense to give him some recharge time … will your ESTP be willing to let you catch your breath when you have exhausted yourself attempting to make him happy?

 

Wow CokeNut I just feel like I got slapped in the face. :shock:
Your description of ESTP relationships really made sense and answered some questons
I didn't even know I had about them!

 

LOL! Have you ever tried dating an ESTP?

*passes ice bag for the black eye*
Sawwy!

 

TMD!!!! :mrgreen:

 

I actually assumed you hadn't said 'I love you', but I since it did happen to me I wanted to give you a true story of just how much it freaks us out, lol. However, keep in mind that INFJs are intuitive, but ESTPs can read people within minutes. He was probably reading into every facial gesture, every word you say, every small change in tone when speaking, even what you wore to any given date. He was looking for signs of you falling for him. You see we don't actually hurt people on purpose, and if we see we might hurt you, we would rather do it sooner than later. Keep in mind that you may not have been falling as hard as he thought you were, this is my observation based on what I know of INFJs and my own type.

Believe me, it would have gotten old. Jax loved it at first, and he still does in moderation, but he will say no and (inadvertantly) push me away when he's had enough or is just not in the mood for physical interaction.

We are always looking for 'the one' we truly believe that person is out there. I was married and divorced twice by the time I was 32, and I had been in 3 serious relationships in between. The thing is that even though we hate to be alone, we really hate to be bored. We wind up going from relationship to relationship, or just palying the field until we are ready to begin our quest anew. In our sick twisted minds 'the one' will be strong, charismatic and so utterly devoted that our heart will sing at the mere sight of him ... but if you think about it INFJs have just as unrealistic a dream as ESTPs, in fact it is the exact opposite, when you find 'the one' you will just know, and he will be the most caring and loving and gentle soul and he will understand you and ... yadda yadda yadda ... think of everything you want and figure that we want the opposite.

Why is it not sustainable? And what better sign of true love than a person who sets out to love you and spark passion in you everyday for the rest of his life?

Do INFJs realize that there is a here and now and that to truly be in love you have to step out from the walled fortress and experience it?

You guys will probably always be the best of friends ... but if you both want a shot at a relationship you will have to put aside everything you know about relationships - you are the fish and the bird looking for common ground ... the only way to find it is to think outside the box.

I'll bet that he already realizes that what you had is good and special, but like I said it is just not enough. Good and special are never enough for an ESTP unless we are talking about a reliable used car.

 

My pleasure! Its nice to be able to be useful

He does have those qualities, just not in the quantities that you need. Just as you do have the qualities he needs, just not as much as he needs. And that is the key ... Jax and I don't compromise; we don't say I'll meet you half way, we say this is what i want, and i will take it for as long as you can give it then I'll give you a break. So when he's tired of paying attention I let him recharge, and when he knows that I've missed him or I need TLC he lets me hang all over him like a bad shirt. No compromise, only true determination to understand, appreciate and accept the others needs.

As for falling in love ... I can truly say that I have loved with all my heart only three times, but I have been in love many, many times. I know this seems fickle, and I KNOW some of you are thinking that there is only one true love ... God NO! how dark and gloomy a thought ... only one love? Love is miraculous and wonderful and magnificent, why would God only allow us one per lifetime? No I believe you love and whatever the circumstances are that take that love away, your heart remains. Give it time to heal and USE it again!!!! Would you stop using your leg if you broke it once?

The fact that only two of your ESTPs loves were relationships means that he was probably in love with someone he could not have. We are capable of loving from a distance.

Emotions may be fleeting, but one replaces another. The spark fades, but another replaces it. As for being left with someone you don't like? We don't get involved with people we don't like ... we will screw them ( ), but we wont get involved.

And what makes you think we don't form our attachments based on solid qualities? I could never give my heart to an unkind man, and certainly not to someone who couldn't make me laugh ... you are confusing sex and casual relationships with actual committed relationships.

Obscenely greedy ...

Jax had a second job in a bar, and I went to that bar on a regular basis including every wednesday to sub on their pool league. He'd had his eye on me for months when he finally got a Wednesday night off and was able to go to the bar as a patron rather than an employee. We got to talking, a fun song started playing and we danced. That song turned into a slow song, he held me and we danced some more. At some point he decided that he had better make his move or he might not have the chance again ... he kissed me and I saw STARS! Talk about Yummy! Things went from there ... for ESTPs the something is there immediately, now whether the other person can hold our attention for long is another story ...

He really does care for you, and he is kicking himself for not being able to settle for less than what he wants, especially because he knows that what he wants is a lot and what you are offering him is good and sincere and enduring ...

A scorpion was walking along the bank of a river, wondering how to get to the other side. Suddenly, he saw a fox. He asked the fox to take him on his back across the river.
The fox said, "No. If I do that, you'll sting me, and I'll drown."
The scorpion assured him, "If I do that, we'll both drown."
The fox thought about it and finally agreed. So the scorpion climbed up on his back, and the fox began to swim. But halfway across the river, the scorpion stung him. As poison filled his veins, the fox turned to the scorpion and said, "Why did you do that? Now you'll drown, too."
"I couldn't help it," said the scorpion. "It's my nature."

 

I know it’s hard to accept that you are not enough ... but let me help you with that ... STOP IT!!!

Its not about not being enough, it’s about where he is and where you are at this time. He is still chasing the dream, let him do just that knowing that ESTPs live in the here and now and as I've said before, things may change.

After I broke up with Jax he kept his distance and gave me space, but he continued to text me and whenever we bumped into each other he was kind and polite even though I had really hurt him. He never said he missed me or asked to get back together; he seemed to finally be listening to his intuition and truly sensing my fear, and he respected it — that was the smartest thing he did.

Be his friend and be available, but keep your distance ... nothing is sexier to an ESTP than a good challenge - especially if some hot nukkie is the reward!

Remember that I said that we need a lot and are obscenely greedy ... no one is ever going to be enough, but he can only learn this in time. The problem is that society has taught us that your significant other is supposed to be everything to you ... that is not possible for an ESTP because we are exhausting companions. The only way for us to be happy and fulfilled in a relationship is to have full lives and healthy relationships with others ... no, not swinging, lol! I mean close friends, family, charities, coworkers, etc.

You say that you could overlook everything even though he may not be enough for you ... why would you want to do that? Why settle ... If he is not good enough for you tell him. Next time you guys are talking let him know that you really enjoy his company and will remain his friend while he goes about his quest for ‘the one’ but you will not be an emotional stepping stone or an occasional one night stand.

 

just for humor sake:

 

There was this one article I read online and found a link to it on this forum (forgot which topic).
It actually was talking about the MBTI and the processes of each type. It said that even though
INFJ and ESTP have completely diferent letter some of their process (like Fi Ni or whatever I don't really
understand these) are still in order. The true opposite would be ISTJ since all of their processes
are inverted from INFJS.

 

Hey Panda ... you realize that you will never truly understand him, don't you? :?

Jax and I were broken up for exactly one week. What can I say? he played it totally cool and I soooo missed his kisses!
I called him one afternoon and invited him to the movies, he accepted, and we went from there. The thing is that I called him because he gave me the impression that if for some reason I couldn't fully commit to the relationship he would be ok if I broke up with him again.

I think it was a grave mistake on your part to throw yourself at him ... Like you said, not all ESTPs are alike, but I assure you that you would never really regain my trust I would always see you as someone who is only my friend in the hopes of gaining my affecction. And yes we are manipulators, but isn't what you did just as manipulative?

You should have said: 'that would have been a very nice ending to the evening at another time, but tonight it ends with just goodnight' Letting him kiss you only confirmed in his mind that you are still holding out hope of a relationship; had you withheld the kiss he would have thought of you all weekend.

You opened the door for him to talk of other women when you sent the pictures of the guys; he either figured it was safe to talk about chicks, or he figured you were playing games and (being the competitive a-holes that we are) he wanted to one-up you. Here's what you should have replied to his story about the other woman: "Wow, what a great story! I am so glad that you are getting out there and having fun. I can't wait to hear about the next date!"

As for why he won't tell you directly that you are just friends and he is dating others ... its may be because we really don't like to hurt the one's we love, and so we sometimes beat around the bush in hopes that you will figure it out on your own.

You seem like a really cool girl ... here's my advice if you want any sort of hope (however slim it may be) - Be his friend, and nothing more.

 

Coke nut your replies are so relatable. I am an infj married to estp boy. I am happy to be with him but sometimes I feel so exhausted. Whenever I stop to catch my breath, fights erupt, at a magnitude that is terrifying to me. We have been together for 3 years. Now he has started dating after fights that you cannot understand me. Gives me silent treatment. Asks me to go out of the room or talks of ending the relationship. He has loved me. I love him crazy.

 

Sounds healthy