Materialism as a cult | INFJ Forum

Materialism as a cult

RyuTech

Community Member
Dec 17, 2016
182
500
106
Germany
MBTI
INFP
Enneagram
2w1
I just found a documentation about the effects of materialism on ourselves and the world as a whole as it stands right now. It reflects many of the values and thoughts i came up with on my own over the time.

Please spend this one hour to watch it too and tell us your thoughts in here. Id like to translate this into german to to share it more but want to discuss it first.

Heres the link to the documentation:
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/escape-cult-materialism/

It definitely had an effect for me watching this. I wouldnt share this if i would not think its important to think about. Please share your thoughts! Thank you in advance.
 
I just found a documentation about the effects of materialism on ourselves and the world as a whole as it stands right now. It reflects many of the values and thoughts i came up with on my own over the time.

Please spend this one hour to watch it too and tell us your thoughts in here. Id like to translate this into german to to share it more but want to discuss it first.

Heres the link to the documentation:
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/escape-cult-materialism/

It definitely had an effect for me watching this. I wouldnt share this if i would not think its important to think about. Please share your thoughts! Thank you in advance.
Have you got some links to text based explanations of the theory? I'd rather read something, than have to watch a long video.
 
Have you got some links to text based explanations of the theory? I'd rather read something, than have to watch a long video.

I just found it and got hooked up with the topic so i dont have other sources yet. Ill link everything i find in here when i collected some.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Flavus Aquila
I just found it and got hooked up with the topic so i dont have other sources yet. Ill link everything i find in here when i collected some.
I didn't watch the whole video, but just skipped to four random spots.

I got the impression that it is advocating a type of utopian, or primitive socialism, of the type embraced by the travelling hippies of the early 60's; kind of a post-class warfare socialism, with elements of naturalism/primitivism.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gust and RyuTech
Just finished up watching it. I'll have to think on it and formulate a reply.

For now, summize to say that since I'm not materialistic naturally, and have a hard time relating to things & money aquistion in a positive manner. Therefore, I need to think;)

What are YOUR thoughts regarding a Materialistic culture @RyuTech ??
 
  • Like
Reactions: Free
I completely agree with it beeing a longterm problem not just for the single person but for humanity and this world as a whole. The Innovations and Industrialization definitely has made life easier nontheless. We have to find a way to get rid of this cage though and start thinking by ourselves again. If we blindly follow this machine called society further we will end up in multiple wars, many people dying and suffering everywhere. We need to rethink what we need in life and what makes us happy in the first place.

We need to coexist with this world as individuals and start caring again instead of taking more and more stuff we dont need. This whole society is a world created in our minds as we dont try to reflect on it making us rise from this cage and enabling us to different views as every person should have their own understanding of life to give birth to creativity and emotions resulting in relationships and bonds that make us happy. A good start would be to try stop buying stuff you dont need and using the money either for your actual health by traveling and distancing yourself from having it easy or use it to give those who suffer something back as everyone should know that everything you own has its history in how it got here.

People did die and more people will die while suffering if we dont start to think and make this world our own again. Right now this world is caged but we can get out if we want to.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Littlelissa and Zen
I watched the first 10minutes and watched the end of it...

The video promotes some utopian ideal. I really did not like it because they don't explain how to get away from this so called "brainwashing" with facts or anything remotely realistic.

I also don't understand how buying stuff means it suddenly becomes our identity. Not everyone buys stuff to show it off. You can easily differenciate people who are materialistic show-off types from the ones who are not.

I get what they are trying to say. If people put more effort into cooperating and helping eachother than just being selfish and fending for themselves, life would be better. But it isnt realistic. Some people take advantage of other people. Some people hurt others. Some people steal and lie. Some people are lazy. Why would anyone want to give their money to those people.

If you want everyone to cooperate and share everything, then everyone would need to be perfect. Which is not the case. Some people will get mad about doing so much more than some lazy person and then it creates problems.

This reminds me of that reality tv show called: Utopia. They all thought it was so cool to live in their own lil world and be able to create their own rules. They soon realized that they needed some type of currency in order to maintain some form of order within their lil society. People got frustrated, mad, jealous, drunk, violent....

If everyone decided to be minimalists and not submitting to self-slavery as they called it in that documentation, then the world would be even more chaotic. Less people would work and that means less people paying taxes...means less services for everyone, etc.

I'm not as well spoken as some INTJs or INTP's but I would like for them to try to explain what im trying to say lol or anyone, really.

But the documentary is okay if you want to help people realize that their life isnt just work and "stuff"...but it was slightly confusing to understand what specific message their were trying to give because the video was all over the place.
 
Loved the video RyuTech. This is a subject that is close to my heart and I have done extensive research on the subject and posted many similar posts on the forum. I thought the video provided a great history on how materialism and consumption has taken a hold of our society. I found the solutions a little simplistic because last I checked we are not becoming a very enlighten society.

It reminded me of "The Story Of Stuff"


Here is calculator you can try out to see how many earths it takes to support your life style?

Try it. Select your location and answer the questions. I think you'll be surprised with the results.

http://www.earthday.org/take-action/footprint-calculator/

Forgive me for indulging myself but I will take the liberty to repost a past post of mine that I believe received very little attention.


How to save the world? I am obsessed with this question but I am slowly but surely finding the answer. Although I still recycle my soda can deep down I know that this action will not save the world. Sure recycle responsibly, car pool and ride your bike to work but guess what? It won't help all that much. The Earth is still heading towards the final count down. The answer is in activism and unity. We need to put pressure on the big mega changes. We need to become citizens again and fight in a smart unified way. Only then can the changes really become meaningful.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi3w-SRxu3QAhWrAMAKHfJPAYQQFggmMAI&url=http://www.salon.com/2015/03/21/the_secret_to_saving_the_world_how_ordinary_people_actually_can_prevent_global_disaster/&usg=AFQjCNHcneZTGKO_OO3QZ6Qp7k0NGxCBlA

We have to become responsible citizens again. We have to find the courage to change the way we have been doing things.

17feb7d9a2a459af95fefbb2698dccc4.jpg
 
Last edited:
Try it. Select your location and answer the questions. I think you'll be surprised with the results.

Mnqinp1.jpg

English: It needs 2.5 times our planet to keep my lifestyle

red = food
orange = housing
yellow = mobility
green = consuming
blue = "i cant translate that properly? something socket-footprint.. idk

Many things are forced by the lifestyle of my family im living with. I could reduce it by living on my own but my energy problem would probably stay since im pretty much addicted to it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zen
It needs 2.5 times our planet to keep my lifestyle

I still hope salvaging meteorites will offer some additional possibilities for energy and resources. If we can pull that off we could maybe live on 1.5-2 times the planets resources. But thats probably the maximum we should live with.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zen
I found a nice piece of Art reflecting on this in its own way :)

don__t_trash_your_dreams_by_aquasixio-d5clzyo.jpg


Quote of the artist AquaSixio:

"Don't trash your dreams, they deserve a better lot, another goal,
I know it's hard, long, and sometimes, the result is disappointing,
But, don't trash them, talk about what you expect from the world,
Talk about your hates, your fears, your perplexity, your wishes,...

Please, don't trash your ideas, you hide treasures in your head,
You forget to breathe, you are snuffing out the flame in you,
Don't give up, please, you are a working of the human evolution,
We are young, we need to evolve and you are one of our echos...

Singing about you is singing about us, hustle and open our mind,
Don't trash your dreams, you'll get bored and make war to have fun,
Poeple will be blind, obsessed by power and ready-made thoughts.
Sheeps will govern the world and you will dream of grass and grass.

And I don't want to be a sheep !"
 
I just found a documentation about the effects of materialism on ourselves and the world as a whole as it stands right now. It reflects many of the values and thoughts i came up with on my own over the time.

Please spend this one hour to watch it too and tell us your thoughts in here. Id like to translate this into german to to share it more but want to discuss it first.

Heres the link to the documentation:
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/escape-cult-materialism/

It definitely had an effect for me watching this. I wouldnt share this if i would not think its important to think about. Please share your thoughts! Thank you in advance.

Here is a link to the Post-Materialist Manifesto that you might find interesting...also there are some links that go along with it.
What are your thoughts?
https://www.infjs.com/threads/merkabah.27025/page-217#post-895161
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandie33 and Free
There should be and could be enough to go around if resources were shared fairly. This is not a utopian vision at all. Rather much more common sense that the current model which is trashing the planet and making people feel empty and unfulfilled (as the video states, relative measures of happiness have declined as we have become more and more materialistic as a society since the 1950's)

We really need to scrap the system and start again! Take the fat cats out of the picture, democratise power. Just throw away our need and tolerance for the people who are at the top pulling the strings. We need to reject the version of events and the truth that they present.
This is by no means the only version of reality possible. Think about, it society could be structured and organised in many different ways. I think people forget this, and they call any ideas about change utopian, or unrealistic.

Perhaps this model were in is a real version of a hell like reality, rather than 'the' only reality. It was created, and it can just as easily be changed, with some vision to do so.

If money, or rather the making of money wasn't in the equation it'd be easy enough to solve the problem of resources.

Products can be made to last, rather than fall apart after a few years.
I think the Eden project has a model where things are lent out and shared rather than individually owned.
Scrap the big industries and democratise the control of pharmaceuticals, agriculture and the food industries and the manufacturing of products.
Stop War and the manufacture and investment in weapons.
Put an end to the mindless consumerism and production of materials which is unsustainable.
Stop using unnecessary pollutants and toxins.
Put an end to the mind control of the media.
Stop making people a means of production.
Value community, culture and the arts.
Go back to organic farming, and small business, community models.
Take the politics out of public services which can be operated for the people.
Take the politics out of politics!

Easy enough, it just takes a change of perspective and priorities.
I know it sounds hard to manage without becoming autocratic, but I think there should be an over-arching moral framework and direction behind long term strategies. It's too easy for governments to come in and make arbitrary bad decisions that derail things that should be left alone at best, or improved on.

I think possibly we could do with some kind of over- seeing high moral authority, that looks over what happens globally and keeps things in line, with no vested interest for themselves. I really don't know how this could work, but I like the idea of people being accountable, and being able to ensure that actions benefit humanity at large, rather than a small few . Some actions that don't serve humanity should just not be allowed to happen at all. It would be easy enough to work out what these actions are by measuring the value in each effect that is caused, with honesty and integrity. If peoples well-being was placed at the very heart of decision making the results we would see would be completely different from reality as we see and experience it now.

Were living in times that are becoming more and more surreal, ever nearer to reaching a crazy crescendo.

Over all though I think we need to have a collective shift. There has to be a shift in consciousness so that new positive humanitarian values reach a point of critical mass, and we start tipping the balance of the scales in the opposite direction.
Only a growing awareness of our shared humanity, mutual inter-dependence and the dignity and inherent value of each person will change the tide. In other words humanistic values.
 
Last edited:
There should be and could be enough to go around if resources were shared fairly. This is not a utopian vision at all. Rather much more common sense that the current model which is trashing the planet and making people feel empty and unfulfilled (as the video states, relative measures of happiness have declined as we have become more and more materialistic as a society since the 1950's)

We really need to scrap the system and start again! Take the fat cats out of the picture, democratise power. Just throw away our need and tolerance for the people who are at the top pulling the strings. We need to reject the version of events and the truth that they present.
This is by no means the only version of reality possible. Think about, it society could be structured and organised in many different ways. I think people forget this, and they call any ideas about change utopian, or unrealistic.

Perhaps this model were in is a real version of a hell like reality, rather than 'the' only reality. It was created, and it can just as easily be changed, with some vision to do so.

If money, or rather the making of money wasn't in the equation it'd be easy enough to solve the problem of resources.

Products can be made to last, rather than fall apart after a few years.
I think the Eden project has a model where things are lent out and shared rather than individually owned.
Scrap the big industries and democratise the control of pharmaceuticals, agriculture and the food industries and the manufacturing of products.
Stop War and the manufacture and investment in weapons.
Put an end to the mindless consumerism and production of materials which is unsustainable.
Stop using unnecessary pollutants and toxins.
Put an end to the mind control of the media.
Stop making people a means of production.
Value community, culture and the arts.
Go back to organic farming, and small business, community models.
Take the politics out of public services which can be operated for the people.
Take the politics out of politics!

Easy enough, it just takes a change of perspective and priorities.
I know it sounds hard to manage without becoming autocratic, but I think there should be an over-arching moral framework and direction behind long term strategies. It's too easy for governments to come in and make arbitrary bad decisions that derail things that should be left alone at best, or improved on.

I think possibly we could do with some kind of over- seeing high moral authority, that looks over what happens globally. and keeps things in line, with no vested interest for themselves. I really don't know how this could work, but I like the idea of people being accountable, and being able to ensure that actions benefit humanity at large, rather than a small few . Some actions that don't serve humanity should just not be allowed to happen at all. It would be easy enough to work out what these actions are by measuring the value in each effect that is caused, with honesty and integrity. If peoples well-being was placed at the very heart of decision making the results we would see would be completely different from reality as we see and experience it now.

Were living in times that are becoming more and more surreal, ever nearer to reaching a crazy crescendo.

Over all though I think we need to have a collective shift. There has to be a shift in consciousness so that new positive humanitarian values reach a point of critical mass, and we start tipping the balance of the scales in the opposite direction.
Only a growing awareness of our shared humanity, mutual inter-dependence and the dignity and inherent value of each person will change the tide. In other words humanistic values.

Couldnt have said it in a better way ! Thank you <3 Love your thinking :D
 
After some thinking about it as sick and immorale as he was (i wont say his name though its bad history of our country) there was one thing i still remember what he tried to achieve. He used to say he wants the country to be self-sufficient. I think thats actually the right goal but we have to see it globally. We have to make the world as a whole self-sufficient so we share what we need and get rid of the thinking someone is privileged in any way because he owns resources like oil which other countries dont have. "I own" should become "We share". A friend of mine back in school days worked on his own society plan once he called it "neo-communism" the name itself might pain some hearts and thoughts but he actually managed to pull of a plan where youre still able to achieve profit by doing well in life and work hard while maintaining the everyday needs. A simple system where a small percentage of everything produced is kept by a government and shared with those who earned that little extra compensating their work. Of course theres still a possibility to misuse that but its more likely to work out to slowly change habits instead of rushing drastic changes. I used to tell him it wont work because money and wealth's values for people are too high to throw them over and i never got an answer telling me how we could even get there. The only possibility i see that "could" work would be to break the money system in some way. Like forcefully make banks go bankrupt and intentionally worsening the situation on the market through people with high influence. Up tp the point money is considered not working anymore and we have to rethink.

(That was all over the place now but share your thoughts :) Sorry for my weirdness)
 
After some thinking about it as sick and immorale as he was (i wont say his name though its bad history of our country) there was one thing i still remember what he tried to achieve. He used to say he wants the country to be self-sufficient. I think thats actually the right goal but we have to see it globally. We have to make the world as a whole self-sufficient so we share what we need and get rid of the thinking someone is privileged in any way because he owns resources like oil which other countries dont have. "I own" should become "We share". A friend of mine back in school days worked on his own society plan once he called it "neo-communism" the name itself might pain some hearts and thoughts but he actually managed to pull of a plan where youre still able to achieve profit by doing well in life and work hard while maintaining the everyday needs. A simple system where a small percentage of everything produced is kept by a government and shared with those who earned that little extra compensating their work. Of course theres still a possibility to misuse that but its more likely to work out to slowly change habits instead of rushing drastic changes. I used to tell him it wont work because money and wealth's values for people are too high to throw them over and i never got an answer telling me how we could even get there. The only possibility i see that "could" work would be to break the money system in some way. Like forcefully make banks go bankrupt and intentionally worsening the situation on the market through people with high influence. Up tp the point money is considered not working anymore and we have to rethink.

(That was all over the place now but share your thoughts :) Sorry for my weirdness)
In actuality, we as Infjs should know that even if we work together we are working alone together. Everybody is selfish in the world but the one that is the most.. is the one that isn't ashamed of it
 
In actuality, we as Infjs should know that even if we work together we are working alone together. Everybody is selfish in the world but the one that is the most.. is the one that isn't ashamed of it

Working alone together is still better than working alone for yourself (those fat cats at the top) or working for someone else without realizing (those hard workers caught in materialism). Working alone together is actually what we should aim for to keep our individuality while maintaining a balance of needs for everyone. If you work together as a unit everything will end up in a cultlike society just again where people dont think for themselves but do what they are told to do by the community. What you say about selfishness is true but i think that this selfishness is in fact the result of us growing up with materialism. The natural selfishness of humans is not about things its about knowledge we long for and people we care for and of course our own safety. Just give everyone acess to all goods and knowledge and you will see theres not much left to greed for!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Skarekrow
Working alone together is still better than working alone for yourself (those fat cats at the top) or working for someone else without realizing (those hard workers caught in materialism). Working alone together is actually what we should aim for to keep our individuality while maintaining a balance of needs for everyone. If you work together as a unit everything will end up in a cultlike society just again where people dont think for themselves but do what they are told to do by the community. What you say about selfishness is true but i think that this selfishness is in fact the result of us growing up with materialism. The natural selfishness of humans is not about things its about knowledge we long for and people we care for and of course our own safety. Just give everyone acess to all goods and knowledge and you will see theres not much left to greed for!
Communist? Jk u have a point but everyone is not as yearning. Working together is just an appearance in a utopian society maybe but idk if its possible
 
  • Like
Reactions: Soulfire