[INFJ] Listening: Engaging with Alternative Perspectives

[invisible]

I'm making this thread with a special interest in asking about INFJ experience, but of course other types are also very welcome to respond. I think that other types should also feel free to comment on their perceptions of the abilities of INFJ type individuals to engage with alternative perspectives (or these abilities as they relate to any other type for that matter): but of course please, when commenting on your perceptions about others, be gentle and kind. PAX!

How good are you at engaging with alternative perspectives?

Here are a few questions to think about with regards to this (but do not necessarily feel compelled to answer each of them in turn):

Is it easy for you to think about things that other people say, that may be in contrast to your preexisting conceptions, and that you may not have thought of?

How much effort does it require for you to fully engage with perspectives that conflict with your own? Is it easy, or do you need to make a special effort?

Do you get upset when someone expresses disagreement with you? (I do.) Why do you get upset? Is it because you dislike conflict, or you are sensitive to criticism, or for some other reason?

What are your listening "practices"? How do you perform the act of listening? Is listening a skill that you have developed, or that you continue to develop, or maybe it is an ability that is inherent to you? Do you actively attempt to improve the ways you listen to others, and truly hearing and taking on board what they have to say? Or do you consider listening to be a skill that you have mastered for all practical purposes? (It is OK to have mastered listening, just as it is OK to have not yet mastered listening.)

How much can we be sure that we understand the meaning of statements that other people make to the people who make those statements? How far do you go out of your way to understand the meaning of a statement that another person made as it was experienced by or was intended by that person?

 

[ImaginaryBloke]

I'm making this thread with a special interest in asking about INFJ experience, but of course other types are also very welcome to respond. I think that other types should also feel free to comment on their perceptions of the abilities of INFJ type individuals to engage with alternative perspectives (or these abilities as they relate to any other type for that matter): but of course please, when commenting on your perceptions about others, be gentle and kind. PAX!

How good are you at engaging with alternative perspectives?

Here are a few questions to think about with regards to this (but do not necessarily feel compelled to answer each of them in turn):

Is it easy for you to think about things that other people say, that may be in contrast to your preexisting conceptions, and that you may not have thought of?

I tend to see both similarities and differences to other things that I have seen, heard or read about before. It is all about looking for patterns. In case that I find no pattern when talking to someone, I ask for examples or keep talking until I grasp what the issue is about.

If another person has got something interesting to talk about, then I gladly participate in a discussion. We all have cultural baggage and psychological filters, so I function best when it is an abstract subject that is familiar to me.

How much effort does it require for you to fully engage with perspectives that conflict with your own? Is it easy, or do you need to make a special effort?

It depends entirely what the subject is about. If it is something innocent and they have something interesting to say, then I gladly try to listen to hear what they have got to say. That is a win-win scenario.

It could happen that the other person is trying to take advantage of me, is babbling corporate-speak, or religious nonsense. That is not a win-win scenario; it is win-lose. Then, I either (1) stick to my guns or (2) try to make the conversation as short as possible. This is the case of a monolog with another person; it is not a dialog.

Do you get upset when someone expresses disagreement with you? (I do.) Why do you get upset? Is it because you dislike conflict, or you are sensitive to criticism, or for some other reason?

Absolutely not. As long as a discussion is open-minded, then I gladly keep talking until my inner alarm clock says that it is tea-time.

If the other person gets upset somehow and "somewhy", I try to see the issue from multiple angles to clarify differences and hopefully come to an agreement. That is to resolve an issue so that we can move the discussion forward.

What are your listening "practices"? How do you perform the act of listening? Is listening a skill that you have developed, or that you continue to develop, or maybe it is an ability that is inherent to you? Do you actively attempt to improve the ways you listen to others, and truly hearing and taking on board what they have to say? Or do you consider listening to be a skill that you have mastered for all practical purposes? (It is OK to have mastered listening, just as it is OK to have not yet mastered listening.)

How much can we be sure that we understand the meaning of statements that other people make to the people who make those statements? How far do you go out of your way to understand the meaning of a statement that another person made as it was experienced by or was intended by that person?

Listening skills come naturally to me as an INTP. We can process an enormous amount of information and then find patterns within it. One one tool in my toolbox that I have found useful though is the Socratic method.

The main issues that I deal with are establishing whether the other person is open-minded and trusts me in having a discussion. A discussion can be an important discussion or simply a joyful one, but that is secondary to the spirit of open-mindedness.

 

[Scientia]

How good are you at engaging with alternative perspectives?

Is it easy for you to think about things that other people say, that may be in contrast to your preexisting conceptions, and that you may not have thought of?

How much effort does it require for you to fully engage with perspectives that conflict with your own? Is it easy, or do you need to make a special effort?

Do you get upset when someone expresses disagreement with you? (I do.) Why do you get upset? Is it because you dislike conflict, or you are sensitive to criticism, or for some other reason?

What are your listening "practices"?

I actually enjoy alternative perspectives if they are presented in a nonjudgemental and respectful, openminded and calm manner. Someone can disagree with me and then I might get all excited at the prospect of a debate, if the person is displaying the aforementioned qualities. I do listen well, not just to what people say but also to what they don't say. If, however, someone gets all up in my business trying to convince me that I am wrong by getting personal, insulting or raising his/her voice, I tend to shut out what the person says, even if it is valid because of they way it is said. I am averse to nasty conflict but thoroughly enjoy fun, verbal swordplay conflict.

 

[invisible]

@ImaginaryBloke, it is apparent that you are an excellent and well practiced listener.

I am interested in your willingness to listen to people who are religious or who have a more commercial perspective. Are there cases in which you are willing to listen to people who are speaking from religious or corporate discourses, or do you categorically avoid conversing with people who hold these perspectives? Can we still be good listeners if we refrain from "hearing" people whose voices originate from discourses that are contrary to our own beliefs or values?

Maybe it is simply not necessary to be interested in every thing, to take every thing in - we are entitled to our own interests, and it doesn't necessarily have any relation to whether or not we are any quality of listener.

 

[invisible]

As an INFJ, I would say that my listening skills are naturally poor. Sure, my Se files away masses of detailed information that comes to me form the world surrounding me. But I have to concentrate very hard to separate what is being said by the source from the intuitive noise that is going on in my head, which tells me that I already understand perfectly well what is being communicated, much better than the source of communication. Sometimes the struggle is so big that it is an effort to engage at all with what the source is saying - I have to FORCE myself just to hear what is being said in a sensory sense, or just to put my eyes on the text. I want to stop hearing, I want to run away and put my body out of reach, I want to put my eyes away from the writing. When I am called on to respond, I find myself wanting to repeat what I already believe, without actually considering things from the perspective that is contrasting with my own. I really need to drag my engagement towards the act of listening, it does not happen automatically.

I think the thing that has helped the most is studying literature, because it's very concerned with the value of subjective perspectives. Once a few years ago when reading a novel that centered on a very Christian character, I suddenly thought "Ah-ha! Now I finally understand." I was baptised as Catholic as a baby and took Holy Communion in my late childhood, although I never thought about it all that much, but I don't think that I really believed in it - then in my teens I rejected any identification with belief in it. Later, in a more adult way, I became quite atheistic, and began to reject the nature of belief itself, and particularly the beliefs systems of large organised religions. It was a lot of work for me to engage with things like that again, and to accept something like the value of faith, for example. I am still very atheistic in my beliefs (as well as erm a little bit mystical but that's another story), but it's more important to me to be meaningfully understanding of the beliefs of others, and I'm happy that I can be.

I know there have been some big voices on the forum in the past about criticising INFJ types, but I sometimes wish that people would be more willing to discuss the less positive aspects of being an INFJ, such as the possibility that sometimes we can be a bit hot-headed when our convictions are contrasted with others, and maybe a bit resistant to listening to others properly. Often on the forum I'm seeing people get very worked up about things, and refusing to properly take on board what the other person is saying, when I notice that the other person may be saying something very insightful and discriminating, and of course I have behaved this way myself many times. I have also sometimes attempted to gently give advice to people about things that I knew quite a lot about, much more than they knew about those things, perhaps due to my family or work background, and it has been as though my words have fallen on completely deaf ears - and I realise that I too have sometimes responded in this way to the advice of others more knowledgeable than I am. It seems wasteful of the MBTI as a tool, to be always using it to celebrate how shiny and cool we are. It's useful and affirming to celebrate being shiny, but the tool has a lot more potential than that.

 

[ImaginaryBloke]

@ImaginaryBloke, it is apparent that you are an excellent and well practiced listener.

I am interested in your willingness to listen to people who are religious or who have a more commercial perspective. Are there cases in which you are willing to listen to people who are speaking from religious or corporate discourses, or do you categorically avoid conversing with people who hold these perspectives? Can we still be good listeners if we refrain from "hearing" people whose voices originate from discourses that are contrary to our own beliefs or values?

Maybe it is simply not necessary to be interested in every thing, to take every thing in - we are entitled to our own interests, and it doesn't necessarily have any relation to whether or not we are any quality of listener.

Well, [MENTION=1814]invisible[/MENTION], I lack social fluidity to speak in parables like Jesus to make them better people. But I do the best that I can.

I try to have an open ear when someone wants to speak to me. Some people have agenda that is contrary to mine. It has happened twice that someone tried to recruit me to his religion. But dominant Ti finds dogmatic religion to be illogical, so there was no point in continuing those discussions.

What I mean by "corporate-speak" is salespeople trying to sell something (in a derogatory, hasty manner) and unknown people trying to connect with me on LinkedOn. (No one has offended me so far here though :w: .)

If you are foreigner who wants to converse with me, there are two recommendations:

(1) Just a friendly discussion without an agenda to check-mate me (inferior Fe).
(2) Some interesting perspective (auxiliary Ne).

For those who already know me, I also recommend:

(3) An interesting topic (dominant Ti).
(4) An interesting observation that connects with the present, or just a memory (tertiary Si).

...and for everyone, ...

(5) Just anything funny in general.

Just funny to have this discussion. I seldom get to speak with people, to be honest.

 

[ImaginaryBloke]

I know there have been some big voices on the forum in the past about criticising INFJ types, but I sometimes wish that people would be more willing to discuss the less positive aspects of being an INFJ, such as the possibility that sometimes we can be a bit hot-headed when our convictions are contrasted with others, and maybe a bit resistant to listening to others properly. Often on the forum I'm seeing people get very worked up about things, and refusing to properly take on board what the other person is saying, when I notice that the other person may be saying something very insightful and discriminating, and of course I have behaved this way myself many times. I have also sometimes attempted to gently give advice to people about things that I knew quite a lot about, much more than they knew about those things, perhaps due to my family or work background, and it has been as though my words have fallen on completely deaf ears - and I realise that I too have sometimes responded in this way to the advice of others more knowledgeable than I am. It seems wasteful of the MBTI as a tool, to be always using it to celebrate how shiny and cool we are. It's useful and affirming to celebrate being shiny, but the tool has a lot more potential than that.

Is that inferior Se that is unable to deal with too many things at once, or that the current moment just happens to be too disturbing?

And when that happens, Ni shuts down?

 

[ImaginaryBloke]

Each MBTI type is expressing a mental state of mind using body language and facial expressions. This is a way of communicating to whom you are willing to talk.

Just two points concerning me:

INTPs are often in their heads too much to engage in conversations with foreigners. It is also the case that the nature of Sweden is melancholic, so I just think that people are reserved and difficult to approach.

 

[Eventhorizon]

To be able to have a conversation where different perspectives can be entertained both sides must be willing to listen to each other and make an actual attempt to do so.
As you can imagine political leaning is something I am interested in. How can a person see something radically different than I can. I have believed that common ground is possible in the past but as time goes on have slowly but surely realized it simply is not.

Other perspectives about other things not as important are easily entertained by me. Especially when I dont really care about the outcome. So long a facts are given I can accept many opinions even if they differ from my own. But again if its something that is ultimately going to affect me, that perspective must include logical rational thinking in its conclusion.

 

[Artisan]

I'm making this thread with a special interest in asking about INFJ experience, but of course other types are also very welcome to respond. I think that other types should also feel free to comment on their perceptions of the abilities of INFJ type individuals to engage with alternative perspectives (or these abilities as they relate to any other type for that matter): but of course please, when commenting on your perceptions about others, be gentle and kind. PAX!

How good are you at engaging with alternative perspectives?
Is it easy for you to think about things that other people say, that may be in contrast to your preexisting conceptions, and that you may not have thought of?

Pretty good. I often surprise people with how open I am to their suggestions, perspectives and ideas.
Sometimes with them telling me so. (Recently someone was almost completely frozen in shock when I within seconds of hearing it implemented his suggestion.)

What people do not seem to realize though is that I always hear them out and carefully mull over what they've said.
I take all their points into careful consideration. Part of this is that I believe that my perspective and way of doing things does not necessarily have to be the right one.
And I believe that this is what makes me as open as I am towards other perspectives and in contrast to mine.
I also don't req. some study or vast amount of evidence for everything because I do listen to logic.

How much effort does it require for you to fully engage with perspectives that conflict with your own? Is it easy, or do you need to make a special effort?
It's easy.

Do you get upset when someone expresses disagreement with you? (If so,) Why do you get upset? Is it because you dislike conflict, or you are sensitive to criticism, or for some other reason?
I don't get upset but I do feel a little bit sad when someone seems to disapprove of me. Disagreement often appears to coincide with disapproval, and yes I am sensitive to criticism if it's not constructive.

What are your listening "practices"? How do you perform the act of listening? Is listening a skill that you have developed, or that you continue to develop, or maybe it is an ability that is inherent to you? Do you actively attempt to improve the ways you listen to others, and truly hearing and taking on board what they have to say? Or do you consider listening to be a skill that you have mastered for all practical purposes? (It is OK to have mastered listening, just as it is OK to have not yet mastered listening.)
Inherent. I do not practice listening. I just listen and consider what is said.

How much can we be sure that we understand the meaning of statements that other people make to the people who make those statements? How far do you go out of your way to understand the meaning of a statement that another person made as it was experienced by or was intended by that person?
I confirm it by asking questions that will show me what I understood and what I misunderstood. Sometimes this can make me look like capt. obvious, but I do it none the less because I care about interpreting someones words as they were intended.

 

[Littlelissa]

I actually enjoy alternative perspectives if they are presented in a nonjudgemental and respectful, openminded and calm manner. Someone can disagree with me and then I might get all excited at the prospect of a debate, if the person is displaying the aforementioned qualities. I do listen well, not just to what people say but also to what they don't say. If, however, someone gets all up in my business trying to convince me that I am wrong by getting personal, insulting or raising his/her voice, I tend to shut out what the person says, even if it is valid because of they way it is said. I am averse to nasty conflict but thoroughly enjoy fun, verbal swordplay conflict.

I actually enjoy alternative perspectives if they are presented in a nonjudgemental and respectful, openminded and calm manner. Someone can disagree with me and then I might get all excited at the prospect of a debate, if the person is displaying the aforementioned qualities. I do listen well, not just to what people say but also to what they don't say. If, however, someone gets all up in my business trying to convince me that I am wrong by getting personal, insulting or raising his/her voice, I tend to shut out what the person says, even if it is valid because of they way it is said. I am averse to nasty conflict but thoroughly enjoy fun, verbal swordplay conflict.

A good debate requires both people to be willing to listen to the other person's perspective. I can tell when that isn't going to be the case and at that point I stop being interested in the 'debate'.

 

[Littlelissa]

As an INFJ, I would say that my listening skills are naturally poor. Sure, my Se files away masses of detailed information that comes to me form the world surrounding me. But I have to concentrate very hard to separate what is being said by the source from the intuitive noise that is going on in my head, which tells me that I already understand perfectly well what is being communicated, much better than the source of communication. Sometimes the struggle is so big that it is an effort to engage at all with what the source is saying - I have to FORCE myself just to hear what is being said in a sensory sense, or just to put my eyes on the text. I want to stop hearing, I want to run away and put my body out of reach, I want to put my eyes away from the writing. When I am called on to respond, I find myself wanting to repeat what I already believe, without actually considering things from the perspective that is contrasting with my own. I really need to drag my engagement towards the act of listening, it does not happen automatically.

I think the thing that has helped the most is studying literature, because it's very concerned with the value of subjective perspectives. Once a few years ago when reading a novel that centered on a very Christian character, I suddenly thought "Ah-ha! Now I finally understand." I was baptised as Catholic as a baby and took Holy Communion in my late childhood, although I never thought about it all that much, but I don't think that I really believed in it - then in my teens I rejected any identification with belief in it. Later, in a more adult way, I became quite atheistic, and began to reject the nature of belief itself, and particularly the beliefs systems of large organised religions. It was a lot of work for me to engage with things like that again, and to accept something like the value of faith, for example. I am still very atheistic in my beliefs (as well as erm a little bit mystical but that's another story), but it's more important to me to be meaningfully understanding of the beliefs of others, and I'm happy that I can be.

I know there have been some big voices on the forum in the past about criticising INFJ types, but I sometimes wish that people would be more willing to discuss the less positive aspects of being an INFJ, such as the possibility that sometimes we can be a bit hot-headed when our convictions are contrasted with others, and maybe a bit resistant to listening to others properly. Often on the forum I'm seeing people get very worked up about things, and refusing to properly take on board what the other person is saying, when I notice that the other person may be saying something very insightful and discriminating, and of course I have behaved this way myself many times. I have also sometimes attempted to gently give advice to people about things that I knew quite a lot about, much more than they knew about those things, perhaps due to my family or work background, and it has been as though my words have fallen on completely deaf ears - and I realise that I too have sometimes responded in this way to the advice of others more knowledgeable than I am. It seems wasteful of the MBTI as a tool, to be always using it to celebrate how shiny and cool we are. It's useful and affirming to celebrate being shiny, but the tool has a lot more potential than that.

In my experience I have been guilty of interrupting people when they're talking, which I know can drive people mad, understandably. I think it's to do with my mind jumping round and the next thought popping up and out of my mouth before I've had a chance to stop myself. This is not a good trait, and I get very upset when people point that out. What to do? Bite my lip and know that if I can keep a thread of all the things I want to say then all will not be lost if I am patient. I appreciate conversations that can happen in a less linear way, with other people who don't mind jumping around, that way we can interrupt each other quite happily and everyone gets what they want to say. Pure ace.
It's difficult if, in my mind, a very opinionated person has something to say about something but has no intention of letting anyone else have any views about that thing that might be different, and yet they expect you to listen endlessly to their uninterrupted flow. However, I must admit I can also be pig headed about my strongly held views, so I'm also guilty of that. I can be closed to others, without realising the mistake, if I have a very strong idea about something that has some value to me. Good evidence given to the contrary though, I think would be listened to, but then my opinionated ears must not be already closed. Once I see I'm doing this I don't mind admitting my mistake.

 

[Littlelissa]

"As an INFJ, I would say that my listening skills are naturally poor. Sure, my Se files away masses of detailed information that comes to me from the world surrounding me. But I have t connect very hard to separate what is being said from the intuitive noise going on inside my head, which tells me that I already perfectly understand what is being communicated...I have to force myself to hear what is being said."

I was accused of being rude in a circle of friends by someone I considered my superior. I was very mortified, I had an over-riding desire to help him finish his story. Glad others have experienced this... Perhaps if I let others end their sentences, they'll let me finish mine too.. umm, maybe I should work on that.
Just to say I don't really think in terms of superior/inferior, I mean superior in age. It's embarrassing to be told of in front of people by someone considerably older than you. Made me feel like a horrible person... but I admit, however wonderful I amI've still got quite a lot of work to do..
being a bit flippant somethimes is another thing as well.