Krishna - Buddha - Jesus

[JonMac]

This is a BBC documentary called "The Hidden Story of Jesus." Despite the somewhat dramatic title, it basically shows the almost incredible similarities not only in the teachings of Krishna, Buddha and Jesus, but also in their stories. Very interesting and thought-provoking. I put the link rather than embedding the video because it is a playlist of several videos. The link goes to the first video and, when it is finished playing, the others will automatically play in order.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhUjIwzuCVI&list=PLE4D40547EBA2B34B&index=1&feature=plpp_video

 

[Kgal]

@Kmal @vandyke @Cornerstone @Serenity @Trifoilum [MENTION=4956]Asarya[/MENTION] [MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]

If the stories are all similar - as to their birth/life/teachings/death:

Then - do you think these men actually lived?

Do you think they all came from God?

What about the fact the religions surrounding Krishna and Buddha say god is within us and we are of god...yet the God of Jesus is outside and some place(heaven) we need to try to get to?
@JonMac Why did you post this?

Thank you btw. I will download them and watch.

 

[JonMac]

@Kmal @vandyke @Cornerstone @Serenity @Trifoilum [MENTION=4956]Asarya[/MENTION] [MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]

If the stories are all similar - as to their birth/life/teachings/death:

Then - do you think these men actually lived?

Do you think they all came from God?

What about the fact the religions surrounding Krishna and Buddha say god is within us and we are of god...yet the God of Jesus is outside and some place(heaven) we need to try to get to?
@JonMac Why did you post this?

Thank you btw. I will download them and watch.

I posted this because I found it interesting, and on another thread I had stated that there is a big difference between what Jesus taught and what Paul taught ABOUT Jesus, and mentioned the Gnostic Gospels. Jesus' teachings (love your enemy, do unto others, etc.) were completely foreign to Judaism, but they were absolutely orthodox to Hinduism and especially Buddhism. Your question as to the nature of God being internal vs external is a good one. If you read the Gnostic Gospels which, unlike the Paulian Christian Bible, have been untouched for 1700 years, they portray Jesus' teachings as being very much in line with Buddhism and Hinduism as far as God being inside of us, rather than outside of us. For example, from the Gospel of Thomas (which serious theologians and historians date to Jesus' lifetime):

"If those who lead you say to you: ‘Look, the kingdom is in the sky!’ then the birds of the sky will precede you... Rather, the kingdom is inside of you."


In that same book, he again instructs his followers to look within...

"When you come to know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will realize that you are the children of the living Father. But if you do not come to know yourselves, then you exist in poverty, and you are that poverty."

I guess my view is that, if you take the teachings of these individuals...and ONLY their teachings, without all the commentary added after the fact...you have a set of teachings that do not contradict one another and can comfortably coexist. I find it very interesting in the documentary that Hindus have no problem with Jesus or his teachings and celebrate him as another incarnation of God. Similarly, Buddhists recognize Jesus as a Bodhisattva, and see him as an enlightened being. Are Christians as accepting and as open or willing to learn from the teachings of these other teachers?

Just food for thought...

 

[Brodskizzle]

Psst: it's 'cuz they're all INFJ!

But seriously, I think the reason they're similar is because people find the same things inspiring, and the minor differences are caused by differences between Jewish and Indian culture. As a fourth-party observer, yes, I believe they all lived. I'm not sure I'm wise enough to know if they came from God, but they were all brilliant men who did good deeds, and that should be enough for anyone.

 

[JonMac]

Psst: it's 'cuz they're all INFJ!

But seriously, I think the reason they're similar is because people find the same things inspiring, and the minor differences are caused by differences between Jewish and Indian culture. As a fourth-party observer, yes, I believe they all lived. I'm not sure I'm wise enough to know if they came from God, but they were all brilliant men who did good deeds, and that should be enough for anyone.

Agreed. In the documentary the Karmapa (a Buddhist lama) says, "Their thoughts and teachings were similar because their motivation was the same. If we look back into history, the stories of these holy beings are always similar."

 

[Patrick Williams]

@Kmal @vandyke @Cornerstone @Serenity @Trifoilum [MENTION=4956]Asarya[/MENTION] [MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]

If the stories are all similar - as to their birth/life/teachings/death:

Then - do you think these men actually lived?

Do you think they all came from God?

What about the fact the religions surrounding Krishna and Buddha say god is within us and we are of god...yet the God of Jesus is outside and some place(heaven) we need to try to get to?
@JonMac Why did you post this?

Thank you btw. I will download them and watch.

These are just my thoughts on this:

If you look at the ancient religions & philosophies, you will see a common thread in them which is: humanity has been estranged from their natural position (union with God) and they need to journey back to this destination. This is, essentially, the goal of them all (too be very reductionistic to keep this short).

Humankind has a natural longing for God and that is why our history is full of religion in every culture - we are all searching for our way back home (were like E.T. ! : - ).

God, in His great love for humanity, has reached out to His creation to help it come back to its rightful place - in His bosom, next to Him, in fellowship with Him which is the reason we were created - to enjoy Him forever.

As God reached out to reveal Himself, shards of truth penetrated through the thick darkness or veil that shrouds the human heart. That is why, IMO, you see such similarities among the ancient religions as well as differences - each person was able to perceive some truth and, yet, like a weak radio signal that comes in and out, the truth they received was not complete or total so this explains both the variety as well as the core essences (IMO).

I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian and Christianity is much more interior than most people realize and this distortion is due to many historical factors in the West which are too complex to numerate here but, suffice to say, the Ancient Roman focus on jurisprudence and the Enlightenment and the Reformation all had a play in the modern version of a very shallow and practically lifeless version of Christianity we see in the West today.

Jesus said, in the canonical gospels, that the "kingdom of heaven is within you" (The Gospel of Thomas says this too, but it is also in the accepted Gospels too) and this is why the Monastic tradition began in Christianity (which the Protestant reformers rejected - Monasticism) and is still maintained among the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox.

Let me stop here but I will sum up to say this: The Creator loves His creation and both have been yearning to connect with each other. God, in His love, has reached out to humanity and revealed Himself as best as humanity could receive it but it is almost like trying to explains the colors of a rainbow to a person born blind - they may conceptually grasp what you are saying somewhat, but their conception will still be distorted.

Or it is like Plato's cave - One man escaped the cave and saw the light and went back to explain to the others and the ones who only knew the life of the cave thought he was crazy!

 

[Patrick Williams]

Sorry, last thing:

There are also very many similarities between Ancient Christianity, Kabbalah, Sufism and Buddhism (I do not know enough about Hinduism to comment on, sorry, not trying to exclude them but do not really know enough of Hinduism to talk about it).

 

[Billy]

This is a BBC documentary called "The Hidden Story of Jesus." Despite the somewhat dramatic title, it basically shows the almost incredible similarities not only in the teachings of Krishna, Buddha and Jesus, but also in their stories. Very interesting and thought-provoking. I put the link rather than embedding the video because it is a playlist of several videos. The link goes to the first video and, when it is finished playing, the others will automatically play in order.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhUjIwzuCVI&list=PLE4D40547EBA2B34B&index=1&feature=plpp_video

You think thats something? Look up the Egyptian God Horus.

 

[JonMac]

This is a picture that hangs in my living room. It depicts those whom I consider to be my spiritual teachers.

(Krishna, Buddha, Lao Tzu, Jesus, Rumi, Gandhi, Paramahansa Yogananda and the Dalai Lama)

 

[j654dgj7]

If the stories are all similar - as to their birth/life/teachings/death:

Then - do you think these men actually lived?

Absolutely. I believe that they are all incarnations of Krsna, and therefore similar.

Do you think they all came from God?

I believe Krsna was an incarnation of God - and therefore one with God. God/Krsna put the word to the rest of the world by assuming other material shapes, like Muhammad, Jesus, etc.

All of the major religions will therefore lead to reaching God - as long as you are aware of him, and dedicate your life to him in a genuine way. Should you only believe in Him halfway, best not to believe at all.

What about the fact the religions surrounding Krishna and Buddha say god is within us and we are of god...yet the God of Jesus is outside and some place(heaven) we need to try to get to?

I don't think there is a big divide between Christianity, Judaism, Islam and the Indian religions when it comes to God. The difference is only in the wording. In regards to Christianity, I'm not an expert to talk on it, but from what I have gathered from Christians, it says that you can only reach God (heaven) by praising Him, and by devoting your life to Him (in the major religions by following rules and laws)

However Buddhism completely rejects God and that there is a creator. To read more about it, check out this wiki article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Buddhism

 

[JonMac]

[MENTION=2578]Kgal[/MENTION] many Buddhists believe that God is pure consciousness...not personified the way many religions perceive the divine (as a person)...but is basically the ground of being, the source of all things (subtly different than a "creator")...completely formless and empty, but containing infinite possibility.

 

[Billy]

@Kgal many Buddhists believe that God is pure consciousness...not personified the way many religions perceive the divine (as a person)...but is basically the ground of being, the source of all things (subtly different than a "creator")...completely formless and empty, but containing infinite possibility.

Buddhists believe in God?

 

[JonMac]

Buddhists believe in God?

I believe I said "many Buddhists"...not all. Really, it's more of a perception thing. They generally qualify it by stating they do not believe in a "creator God," meaning a deity who purposefully created the universe and rules over it. The term Buddhists use is "the ground of being." As I said, referring to pure consciousness, empty of form yet containing infinite possibilities.

 

[Lerxst]

These are just my thoughts on this:

If you look at the ancient religions & philosophies, you will see a common thread in them which is: humanity has been estranged from their natural position (union with God) and they need to journey back to this destination. This is, essentially, the goal of them all (too be very reductionistic to keep this short).

Humankind has a natural longing for God and that is why our history is full of religion in every culture - we are all searching for our way back home (were like E.T. ! : - ).

God, in His great love for humanity, has reached out to His creation to help it come back to its rightful place - in His bosom, next to Him, in fellowship with Him which is the reason we were created - to enjoy Him forever.

I'm going to stop you there. This won't come across very well in text form, but when I say, "Don't include me in your overall definition of humans and God." it's not a personal attack. I'm perfectly happy in my beliefs and don't need or want people "losing sleep" over me when they think of their religion.

As far as Christianity goes, consider me a void; an empty space that doesn't exist and doesn't need to be justified or explained since I don't exist.

I believe I said "many Buddhists"...not all. Really, it's more of a perception thing. They generally qualify it by stating they do not believe in a "creator God," meaning a deity who purposefully created the universe and rules over it. The term Buddhists use is "the ground of being." As I said, referring to pure consciousness, empty of form yet containing infinite possibilities.

Try explaining the concept of "annata" or lack of "soul" and you'll have the same problem. It's easier for a lot of Buddhists, especially Western ones, to use God as a meme rather than a definitive entity.

As for the original topic....

I've pointed out a few times how eerily similar Buddha and Christ were, as for the stories of their life. Krishna is really no surprise though since Buddha was born a Hindu and his belief system stems from that religion; it makes sense that those two would be similar.

So either Buddhism/Hinduism leaked Westward over 500 or so years and some of the teachings blended with the traditional Jewish concepts to give Christ his push in that direction, or... through some unexplained, supernatural course of events, 500+ years after Buddha and 3,000+ years after Krishna, Christ was also led down a divine path thanks to the word of God.

Oh, and a third theory - Most of Chrst's life didn't happen as documented, but was written about after the fact when people (the Apostles) had already heard of the other spiritual journeys taken before him. The fact that the oldest known Bible is also 1600 years old, leaves about a 400 year gap for people after that to just "fill in". That's 400 in which they could have learned about other spiritual figures and journeys... 400 years of improvisation. Not to mention, that even that Bible doesn't agree with the present-day one.

 

[Sriracha]

... and there are many others too, i.e. "Zoroaster".

 

[Billy]

I believe I said "many Buddhists"...not all. Really, it's more of a perception thing. They generally qualify it by stating they do not believe in a "creator God," meaning a deity who purposefully created the universe and rules over it. The term Buddhists use is "the ground of being." As I said, referring to pure consciousness, empty of form yet containing infinite possibilities.

Oh I see... yeah I recall when I was actually visiting in China that I learned that Buddhists don't believe in god. The ones in China tend to fill in the god gap with other religions, specifically traditional Chinese religious beliefs that have nothing to do with Buddhism That or they are atheist Buddhists.

 

[Billy]

Humankind has a natural longing for God and that is why our history is full of religion in every culture - we are all searching for our way back home

Could not disagree more. Not all of us long for god or have god shaped holes in our hearts nor are we all trying to get back home to god. You should clarify that that's what it is for YOU. Because its most certainly not the case for a great many of us.

 

[JonMac]

So either Buddhism/Hinduism leaked Westward over 500 or so years and some of the teachings blended with the traditional Jewish concepts to give Christ his push in that direction, or... through some unexplained, supernatural course of events, 500+ years after Buddha and 3,000+ years after Krishna, Christ was also led down a divine path thanks to the word of God.

And don't forget Jesus' "lost years," from the time his family fled to Egypt until he began his teachings at around age 30. The interesting thing about that is there was a significant Buddhist population in Alexandria at that time, so the idea that Jesus interacted with, and was possibly influenced by, Buddhists is certainly feasible. As I said in a previous post, his teachings were very much in tune with the Buddha's, but were very very different from what Old Testament Judaism taught. Also, when a high lama dies, his attendants search for his reincarnation, usually travelling in threes, and they follow signs, very often a star. So the three wise men, from the East, no less, would absolutely be a familiar idea to any Buddhist. There are also ancient scrolls in Buddhist temples in India and Nepal that talk about Issa...who came as a child from Palestine and was taught by Buddhist monks until he was an adult, at which time he returned to his homeland.

 

[Patrick Williams]

Could not disagree more. Not all of us long for god or have god shaped holes in our hearts nor are we all trying to get back home to god. You should clarify that that's what it is for YOU. Because its most certainly not the case for a great many of us.

Billy,

You were paraphrasing St. Augustine there - are you sure you're not a closet Christian?! : - ) (Just kidding).

Obviously, I do not mind if you disagree with me (and even if I did, it wouldn't matter, would it?) because that is how we come to the truth - through amiable dialogue and disagreements and, ultimately, that is really what all of us want, to live our lives founded on truth, right? I mean, who wants to die and realize their whole life was built on a lie or a false perception? So, yes, disagreement can be good and help if we are truly searching for truth.

So, was I wrong to say ALL of humanity was searching for God? Maybe. Maybe I should have said that human history is filled with religion and most people search for meaning, purpose, truth and reality in this life...maybe that would have been more accurate.

However you would like to word it, it is fair to say that the history of humanity is filled with religion much, much more than the absence of it. Every ancient culture and civilization was very religious - even ancient Rome. Whether is was the Druids or the pagan mystery religions of the middle east, humanity has been marked by a deep and consistent religious bent - why? Humans, by and large, DO have a certain draw to things spiritual and that is because they ARE spiritual at there core.

Maybe I should not make such sweeping generalizations but the human art of language is filled with that and we intuitively understand it. For example, when hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans the Nightly news reported that New Orleans was "devastated". Now, I ask you - was ALL of New Orleans devastated or just significant parts of it? Obviously, not all of it was but enough of it was to be able to say that "New Orleans was devastated". So, when I say, "Humanity" I mean "by and large" and, of course, there are always exceptions to the standard.

Anyway, what you pointed out was good but I do think history does show a religious bend within humanity more than it does otherwise. Think through the 10,000 plus years of history and you will see that it is littered with religious ceremony, customs and values (and I am not just referring to monotheistic religions either but think of the Druids, Isis, Baal worship, etc...).

OK, I got to start dinner here (spaghetti with meat balls). I hope that clarifies it some. You are right in saying my generalizations do not apply to everyone without exception - I agree with you on that but I still do maintain that, by and large, history shows humans, the vast majority of them, do tend to have a desire to connect with the Eternal One or the spiritual realm, however they perceive or understand that.

 

[Kgal]

...

So, was I wrong to say ALL of humanity was searching for God? Maybe. Maybe I should have said that human history is filled with religion and most people search for meaning, purpose, truth and reality in this life...maybe that would have been more accurate.

However you would like to word it, it is fair to say that the history of humanity is filled with religion much, much more than the absence of it. Every ancient culture and civilization was very religious - even ancient Rome. Whether is was the Druids or the pagan mystery religions of the middle east, humanity has been marked by a deep and consistent religious bent - why? Humans, by and large, DO have a certain draw to things spiritual and that is because they ARE spiritual at there core.

Maybe I should not make such sweeping generalizations but the human art of language is filled with that and we intuitively understand it. For example, when hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans the Nightly news reported that New Orleans was "devastated". Now, I ask you - was ALL of New Orleans devastated or just significant parts of it? Obviously, not all of it was but enough of it was to be able to say that "New Orleans was devastated". So, when I say, "Humanity" I mean "by and large" and, of course, there are always exceptions to the standard.

Anyway, what you pointed out was good but I do think history does show a religious bend within humanity more than it does otherwise. Think through the 10,000 plus years of history and you will see that it is littered with religious ceremony, customs and values (and I am not just referring to monotheistic religions either but think of the Druids, Isis, Baal worship, etc...).

OK, I got to start dinner here (spaghetti with meat balls). I hope that clarifies it some. You are right in saying my generalizations do not apply to everyone without exception - I agree with you on that but I still do maintain that, by and large, history shows humans, the vast majority of them, do tend to have a desire to connect with the Eternal One or the spiritual realm, however they perceive or understand that.

Uh....I believe you're wrong about this religious attitude being more prevalent with human history than otherwise.

What about the hunter gatherer tribes? What about before agriculture and cities?

My ancestors held nature in reverence and strived for harmony with it. They did not worship a god.

I think religion came about because someone wanted to control the masses.

I think humans came up with this afterlife with God up in heaven idea because the ego is afraid to die and life in the cities under the control of a few turned out to be miserable.

Now. The idea of the Sprirtual journey/quest - I'll agree that's been around for a long long time. But not religions nor God.