Is this Hell? | INFJ Forum

Is this Hell?

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Paladin-X, Jul 29, 2012.

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  1. Paladin-X

    Paladin-X Permanent Fixture

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    Complacency and ignorance seems to be a growing common trend in society. Once upon a time, people seemed to be working towards something. The betterment of mankind, providing for a family, helping others. Now, it seems we are trained as robotic functions of corporations and society. Store clerks and bartenders, customer service and tech support, the teacher, the doctor, the lawyer, etc all seem to be treated less as individuals and more as robotic functional roles. Very few of us say please and thank you to them, or even ask how the day is going.

    We are far too ignorant of what goes on around us. Perhaps because it is overwhelming? Perhaps because we've given up? Perhaps we just don't care? I only ever hear excuses (and I give them myself :( )

    Most are too busy or blind to see what's going on around them, few offer to help the older lady who's dropped her purse, or even just holding the door. We complain about small injustice's in our lives, yet do nothing to change it. Trapped in a prison, that not just society has created, but that the individual has created for him/herself. People have become far too selfish in their search for independence that they have lost touch with the essence of community. Too many parents worrying more about their own lives and dragging their kids around (or getting babysitters/sitting them in front of the TV). What happened to family values? Most of us seem to be in 'keep my head above water' mode, barely trying to survive in a world overcome by stress, fear, and anxiety. Too many have fallen, unable to grasp the essence of contentment, instead always seeking quick pleasures to bring about states of joy and call it happiness.

    Man has worked hard to bring about technology to make our lives easier. Yet instead, we now have more than ever to do. We often believe that after putting in a good 50 years of hard work, one can finally be happy and at peace in retirement. We started with good intentions to make the world a better place, only to stagnate. We became complacent and overwhelmed, sticking our heads in the sands of ignorance to cope.

    If the road to perdition is paved with good intentions, then this must be Hell, if ignorance is bliss.


    NOTE: All old adages, expressions, religious preachings, etc that reference the goodness in hard work, it was said with a simpler life in mind. Not the dominating slave train of modern life.


    I'll tack this on here to add to the wall of text:

    While I draw extreme parallels to a dismal existence, I do not mean to convey a sense of pessimistic doom for humanity. Unfortunately, I lack the ability to properly express my thoughts.

    This will mostly likely be taken as an offence, but I do not mean it to be so - Optimism is another form of ignorance and complacency. Pessimism as well for that matter. The optimist is the one that hopes, despite all odds, that things will work themselves out. The pessimist will assume, that despite all efforts, things will fail. I do not understand why we must be one or the other. Instead of waiting to see if others will try and succeed or try and fail, what will you do affect humanity?

    NOTE: I noticed that so far everyone relates to the good that is being done, is done by others. This is not to assume that you are or are not affecting your fellow man/woman. It is merely an interesting observation.
     
    #1 Paladin-X, Jul 29, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2012
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  2. Kgal

    Kgal Magic Star Dust
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    Ummm....yes.... I would agree this existence fits the description of what most would call Hell.

    What's on your mind?
     
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  3. OP
    Paladin-X

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    [MENTION=2578]Kgal[/MENTION]
    Nothing in particular. Just saying stuff. Hoping for discussion of some kind, I think. I'm never really sure.


    I think a big contributing factor is that we don't know who to trust anymore. So we throw up more walls and personas in our interactions with others. Nobody really knows anyone anymore.

    Another study was done about the triggers of fight or flight. They showed people pictures of various animals, then faces and buildings (still not sure why buildings?). In any case, the study showed that people could easily identify the safe animals from the dangerous ones. They could not do so with the faces and buildings. They showed faces that clearly demonstrated various emotions, such as happiness, sadness, anger, etc. People's fight or flight response was not triggered at all. Granted, there's no context, or other feelings to associate to that face, but how then can we associate fear with certain animals?

    So people are becoming less trusting and ever more vigilant of others, sometimes even their own spouses and kids! It is becoming easier to shy away from others or hide behind masks and ignorance, becoming more and more disassociated with humanity and community.
     
    #3 Paladin-X, Jul 30, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2012
  4. muir

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    I agree with you man....the corporate dominated society is one where people are compartmentalised into little boxes....it ain't natural and it ain't healthy!

    I'd like to say more later but i've gotta go to bed......i get what you're saying though
     
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  5. Lemonworld

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    No, I don't believe this is hell. A crumbling paradise, perhaps.

    When in doubt I look for all the small wonders that surround me everyday. When I can't find them, I know I'm not looking hard enough. So I keep looking, and looking. Society might be miserable, but I don't intend to be. Even on the hard days, there is always something to be amazed and fascinated by.

    ...Just being my natural optimistic self. :m176:
     
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  6. lenina

    lenina Community Member

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    all the greatness and beauty of mankind deconstructed into trivial and disperate tasks. not hell, but pretty far from God.
     
  7. Kgal

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    One piece of the puzzle is lack of community involvement I think. As you say - we are so habituated towards individualism we have no common ground to stand with each other upon.

    I'll tell you a story I heard this morning - approximating the get together of community - that brought warmth and joy to my heart...

    My first cousin, K, called to tell me his cousin, R, sent a text message to everyone on his contact list. It was a call for everyone to drive to the old WalMart parking lot at 8pm Saturday night. So my cousin went. After everyone was gathered - R announced that he wanted everyone to participate in recreation of the Saturday night drag.

    I don't know if you're familiar with that age old timeless practice - but it seems to have fizzled out around down here in the rural south towards the end of the 90's. It was nothing - and Something - at the same time. We met at some specified parking lot and then drove about a 1/2 mile or so to another designated parking lot - turned around - and then drove back. In the middle of all of this - there was a lot of honking and waving and stopping at railroad tracks to play Chinese Fire Drill (no offense is directed towards anyone of Asian origin). We would also stop at the local Dairy Queen Drive-In - buy something to drink or Strawberry Sundaes - and then head out again. We'd often put the change in the ash tray and buy a gallon of gas with it. I can remember 17 cents a gallon. There were probably a hundred cars of people doing this. Girls would ogle guys....and guys would show off to the girls. :w: There was a lot of flirting going on too.

    So my cousin is laughing while telling me that everyone gathered there - Old and Young - climbed into their newly washed vehicles - and "made the drag". He said he met so many new people and they shared stories and honked their horns. One of them got stopped by the local police - but even this made for more stories. K said they stayed out in the parking lot till late that night discussing what they could do the "Next Time". As an aside he told me he did donuts in his white Charger - and all the women went Ooooo....and the kids yelled. Hahahahahaha.... he's a hoot.

    It seems people are beginning to wake up and feel the need for "community". I think this is more evidence that points to the fact that while the world seems fraught with violence, indifference, and fear - there is also Love.

    When I get despondent over it all - I am reminded that for every action there is an equal reaction. There is Yin and Yang...Ebb and Flow....the swing of the Pendulum. To us....it may seem as if this will go on forever and ever amen...but for all we know the pendulum is already in full swing in the opposite direction of Fear. I used to watch the news and despair that we as a species would ever embrace cooperation and compassion. Then I began to realize that what I was afraid of - was also what I was focusing on - and was ALSO what I was projecting on to the world. Which is namely Fear. As you know....whatever emotion we are intensely feeling is what we are "sending" outwards around us for about a 3 foot radius. When another sentient being comes into that space - they can sense it too. You may know of how large groups of people affect each other and sometimes will seem to all of a sudden come into synchronicity with each other.

    At any rate - I finally stopped watching the news - stopped listening to people who were filled with hatred and anger - and started actively looking for ways to practice being grateful and loving towards anyone I could. I know I may be a little grain of sand in the vastness of the universe - but I feel called to help push the pendulum back towards Love.

    I do it by trying to be that which I wish to see....
     
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  8. Brodskizzle

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    Sorry, I was looking for the INFJ forum, but I have apparently stumbled into Pessimist-palooza. (But what's the difference? :p) People are better and ballsier than you guys seem to think. There's a lot of brilliant stuff being done and no matter how much crap goes down, it only happens to clear the way for more good stuff. That being said, the green room at the theatre where I'm acting right now is quite possibly purgatory.
     
  9. OP
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    While I draw extreme parallels to a dismal existence, I do not mean to convey a sense of pessimistic doom for humanity. Unfortunately, I lack the ability to properly express my thoughts.

    This will mostly likely be taken as an offence, but I do not mean it to be so - Optimism is another form of ignorance and complacency. Pessimism as well for that matter. The optimist is the one that hopes, despite all odds, that things will work themselves out. The pessimist will assume, that despite all efforts, things will fail. I do not understand why we must be one or the other. Instead of waiting to see if others will try and succeed or try and fail, what will you do affect humanity?

    NOTE: I noticed that so far everyone relates to the good that is being done, is done by others. This is not to assume that you are or are not affecting your fellow man/woman. It is merely an interesting observation.
     
  10. Apone

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    "Hell is other people."-Jean-Paul Sartre.

    But if you actually take some time and go outside and look around you with a clear head, you'll realize it's not as bad as you think. Trees are not hell. Grass is not hell. Blue skies are not hell. Fluffy white clouds are not hell. Sunshine is not hell. And these are the things you should live for, or you'll go insane.
     
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  11. Tactical Panda

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    I don't know a person who can avoid a measure of complacency.
    I don't know a person who can avoid a measure of ignorance.

    With this sort of ignorance who is to say the answer exists out there beyond certainty and that after the best efforts the sun will set for humanity with us remaining ignorant?
    It seems uncertain unless success proves otherwise.
     
  12. Kmal

    Kmal Well-known member

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    [MENTION=5437]Paladin-X[/MENTION] No, this is our garden, maybe more, in the sense that we reap what we sow. I know that if I make my garden beautiful and loving and inviting others will see and do the same and since the personal gardens make up the whole garden, one has tremendous power. 'Dont let your garden go to hell.' :p Contextually, its funny and relevant. You have the power to sow the right things in your garden and maybe affect the world, maybe not, but you will always have your garden.
     
  13. barbad0s

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    I think I understand where you are coming from. Many aspects of our society now are hellish. We are advancing faster than ever in developed countries with science and technology, and discovering that people are getting sadder and sicker and more closed off from one another all at the same time. But so it goes.

    We may still change with time. Nobody knows what the future has in store for everyone.

    Where did you think you wanted to direct this discussion towards, specifically? About how this could play out in the future or potentially be "fixed"?
     
  14. knight in battle

    knight in battle Well-known member

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    I work toward the betterment of society everyday, in my way, in my capacity.
    You never know how much a small focused act of social improvement can tear down the Hell that still remains.
     
  15. Billy

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    Really? I thought it was a staple of the human condition.

    VS what time? even 2000 years ago it was the same... instead of lawyers and bartenders we had butchers, brothel owners, gladiators, senators, etc. Roles.

    In a sense I agree, people thrive on ignorance, it makes it easier to fulfill said roles. But this is the way it has always been. There was no time when there was some great number of brilliant people around, no more than today anyway.

    This is only partially true. Community is a cultural thing. The sense of community wanes as you rise in the class structure. And increases the the lower you go. Have you ever partied on a street filled with mostly Mexican and Colombian immigrants? You will feel major community there. Its in the middle class to upper class where you lose this trend, as it is replaced by technology and property. This is why I have given up any dreams for riding my intellect into a higher class. While I may want the money as a tool to help the people around me, I dont want to lose my common-ness. I like blending into the impoverished masses, they are more genuine people in general. I am a populist at heart.

    You have a strange sense of nostalgia that doesn't make sense. It wasn't any better in "the old days" family values? you mean like dad beating mom and the kids and no one caring? The friends and neighbors minding their business and the cops saying "well she probably deserved it, he was the king of his castle"? I forget the term but there is a psychological name given to this type of nostalgia, that is studied. And from what I understand its been proven to be bunk, because as society evolves it actually gets better and more efficient for all and less so for the ones who ruled it previously.

    "keep our head above water mode" is written into our bodies and DNA by nature. Nature does just enough to be successful and no more. Ever looked at how your body is designed? sharing a hole/tube to eat and breath out of? A flawed design assuring us that a % of humans will die from choking. Bad design, but good enough for nature. We are children of nature, is it any wonder we follow suit?

    Who are you to say its stagnating?



    How could you possibly know that? I read a lot about ancient Rome, and one thing I found amazing was just how incredibly similar humans back then were to humans today. Makes sense. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
    I'll tack this on here to add to the wall of text:

    I think I got the gist of what you meant, I just think I disagree... its largely based on a limited point of view and its very subjective.

    So dont be either, suspend judgement until the facts are in on as many things as you can. Then for the rest, go with your gut. We cannot know everything, so some level of ignorance is acceptable.
     
  16. OP
    Paladin-X

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    [MENTION=1451]Billy[/MENTION]

    I live in a fantasy world. Why argue with a deluded individual? :p

    My point of view is not limited, it is extensive, I only know how to communicate it in a limited way. Unfortunately, I see things as whole concepts and do not know how to break them into parts to properly explain myself to others. I may often choose the wrong words to convey a meaning, which thus leads others to only understand the very basic surface level of what I am trying to say. NOTE: I am not saying that one is incapable of grasping what I grasp, only in that I am the one that fails in trying to explain my thoughts to others. Which leads to despair for me, a lot. I am mostly alone in this world because I do not know how to interact with others, nor they with me, I suspect. Instead of truly trying to understand me, it is easier to judge and ignore me. It is not that I wish for others to have to learn how to interact with me, I am not that deluded. Instead, I painfully desire to learn how to interact with others.

    Self-pity rant over. :D

    Initially I was amused by the comparison of two expressions about ignorance and good intentions. My mind wandered off on some tangent in its telling.

    Haha! It is perhaps the exponential growth of human beings that exacerbates my perception of increased ignorance! Perhaps ignorance has always been the constant! I hadn't thought of it that way. :)
     
    #16 Paladin-X, Aug 19, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2012
  17. JGirl

    JGirl no chocolate flavored gum? wow

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    if hell represents the worst possible existance imaginable, then no, we are far from it.

    personal hell is another place entirely - this is the only hell i believe exists - one of our own creation as mortal beings.
     
  18. Auron

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    Best post in thread.


    We are not in hell. And if you think we are, then maybe you should pay a visit to the real one, provided it exists.
     
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  19. Cornerstone

    Cornerstone Well-known member

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    Oh, I like that.

    The choice of words, not the heartbreaking reality.
     
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