Is not saying/telling something can be considered as lying? | INFJ Forum

Is not saying/telling something can be considered as lying?

Bellosome

Bellosome

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hello! :) since INFJs are known to be taking our time when it comes to opening up and trusting people, i was wondering if not telling everything can be considered as lying?

personally i don't. lying to me is something one is intentional or sort of denying.. while not telling, to me is something i wanted to keep private or something i'd rather not tell but will say it if asked or if needed..

reason i asked is that a friend of mine argued about it.. she said it's also a form of lying but i think otherwise..

thoughts would be great! thank you!
 
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Everyone deserves privacy in their mind if they choose to have it.

In some relationships, some people withhold certain information that is important to making decisions, in a way that controls the kinds of decisions that the other person makes. Or sometimes people cheat on their tax reporting by withholding certain financial information. Those kinds of things are sometimes called a lie of omission. So yes I think it can be a lie to withhold information.

But I think it depends on the situation a little bit. Nobody should have to give up the secrets of their heart if they don't want to.
 
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I think lies are deceptive while keeping silent (secret) is not. Yes, there is lying by omission, however, there are times when keeping silient can avoid hurting some one else's feelings or causing malaice.

Another thought is, it's only a lie if another finds truth that supports the lie. Keeping ones own counsel is not lying but merely remaining silent.
 
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There is a difference between privacy and deception.

There are some things no body has a right to know about you. That information should only be volunteered.

Deception involves other people and causes harm or is used to avoid consequences and/or manipulate.
 
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@bellisima I've been really torn on this currently myself. My ex partner has involved me slightly in what she said was a minor fib, by her friend, to her friends husband. The couple are both friends of ours, they are lovely people. Sadly quite a few years ago, the lady had an affair with her husbands best friend. They nearly split up, but then reconciled.

I don't know, or want to know the details but apparently they still row about it every so often. Unfortunately about 6 months ago, the lady left after a row, and told her husband she'd stayed at our house for that night. My ex persuaded me to go along with it, though I told her I didn't want to, and would not lie if asked about it.

My ex thought I was just being awkward, but I wasn't. Thankfully it never came up, but it's still left me feeling like I've been dishonest with a friend, since I unfortunately know his wife has lied to him and I haven't told him. I feel like if I do tell him, it might cause a big row over nothing, but by not telling him, I'm now a reluctant participant in a lie.

I've decided not to say anything, but it really has bothered me. Her friend said she'd stayed at a hotel, but didn't tell him that as he'd think she was up to something. I feel like if he later finds out I knew he will rightly be angry with me. All I could say is that I didn't want to know anything about it, or cause any arguments. To my mind his wife should have just told him the truth and had the row if necessary.

I guess what I think is yes omitting telling things can be "lying" especially where the effect or intention is to mislead someone.
 
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it's technically not lying, but the question isn't valid. Lying can fall under the category of being a shitty person, and in the same context, so would withholding information. Depends on the situation of course. It's like comparing rotten apples and rotten oranges, yet trying to justify their difference on the merit of being different. And even that is an exaggeration; it's more like comparing rotten oranges and tangerines.
 
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In the context of your post, though...

You don't owe anyone information. Even in a relationship you don't owe your partner anything, but it would probably be a good idea to be honest, and to give as much as he gives.

If you feel someone shouldn't know something about you, lying is parallel to not saying anything. Is it exactly the same? No, but nothing really is. If he/she was prying for information, lying to him/her would be warranted and ethically equivalent to not willingly offering the truth.
 
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ruji said:
it's technically not lying, but the question isn't valid. Lying can fall under the category of being a shitty person, and in the same context, so would withholding information. Depends on the situation of course. It's like comparing rotten apples and rotten oranges, yet trying to justify their difference on the merit of being different. And even that is an exaggeration; it's more like comparing rotten oranges and tangerines.
Click to expand...

I have two observations:

1. One can be a bad person and tell the truth while you say nasty, hurtful things. It horrible but not lying.

2. I fear @ruji needs to clean out his fruit bowl.
 
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Scientia said:
I have two observations:

1. One can be a bad person and tell the truth while you say nasty, hurtful things. It horrible but not lying.

2. I fear @ruji needs to clean out his fruit bowl.
Click to expand...
I didn't want to layer my thoughts with disclaimers, however I did briefly cover that concept:
"Lying can fall under the category of being a shitty person"
"Depends"
 
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bellisima said:
personally i don't. lying to me is something one is intentional or sort of denying.. while not telling, to me is something i wanted to keep private or something i'd rather not tell but will say it if asked or if needed..

reason i asked is that a friend of mine argued about it.. she said it's also a form of lying but i think otherwise..

thoughts would be great! thank you!
Click to expand...

I think it's a great question with a lot of dimensions!

The outright answer to it is NO, because that's confusing openness with truthfulness. One can be extremely private (as all introverts are, on average, more so than extraverts) without being less truthful. Not answering is invoking the right to not reveal information the other doesn't have the right to know.

A separate point is that omitting information in situations where your intention should be to not mislead is certainly to be counted as a failure. However, it isn't the case to me that one always ought not to mislead someone. To take an example, suppose a known murderer asks you the hiding spot of a victim he intends to hunt down -- the more convincingly you mislead him, the more morally you likely have acted.

Similarly, faced with letting slip something that someone has no right to know, vs misleading them, I'd say misleading them is superior.

Now, does this mean I support a world where we mislead people? NO! I think in the ideal world, people would respect each others' privacy, and be good-intentioned, so that such unfortunate questions don't arise. I support a world where we are rational and free to discuss ideas, and respect privacy. Indeed, if I had to mislead someone in my friend circle, I'd think very quickly they'd be out of my friend circle, as it isn't working.
 
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ruji said:
In the context of your post, though...

You don't owe anyone information. Even in a relationship you don't owe your partner anything, but it would probably be a good idea to be honest, and to give as much as he gives.

If you feel someone shouldn't know something about you, lying is parallel to not saying anything. Is it exactly the same? No, but nothing really is. If he/she was prying for information, lying to him/her would be warranted and ethically equivalent to not willingly offering the truth.
Click to expand...

@ruji you're male ? I thought you were female. I'm not sure why.

Have you heard of Johari windows ? Not a rival of Microsoft. Just a theory about openness. I think infj usually have a tendency towards privacy that can at times be unhealthy or unhelpful. I don't like to intrude on anyone's privacy, or they mine. But generally I the johari windows thing is on the right track.
 
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thank you all for the wonderful responses.

im going to get back at this and explain what happened when my boss is done sucking the life out of me --- they're probably dementors..
 
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hiiiii..

so, i might have posted the question in a rush and just realized how it wasn't clear... so anyway,

i have a friend who had just broken up with her long time boyfriend (which i don't really think is long since it's just 2 yrs..but nonetheless) and well, she was seeking for advise and emotional support.. so being good friend that we are, we were trying to be there for her and all.. But, she didn't tell us that all the while we assumed that she wasn't okay and sort of depressed from the breakup, she has been dating other guys. I guess part of me was thinking that, it wasn't like it's our business whether she dates right away or not.. that's why at that moment, i didn't think it was a lie.. we ASSUMED that she wasn't ready to date because we THOUGHT that she wanted to give the relationship another try.. and having read all your responses, i guess it is a form of lie.. :( since she omitted the fact that she's already dating others while we were trying to help them work out their differences...

i guess i have to say sorry to my other friend..

which now leads me to post to another thread somewhere in this forum..


once again, thank you thank you all for the responses.
 
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I didn't tell the island of Far Harbor that Avery was a synth, was that a lie?
 
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