Indigo's Type Has Come Into Question Again

[IndigoSensor]

Ok, so I am bringing my type into question again. Several things have spurred this (talking to people, self reflection, and recent reuslts). I know many of you here feel that I am an INFJ. I need to seriously concider if I am an ISFJ though, even possibly an INTJ or ISTJ. I am going to focus on INFJ/ISFJ though, as I feel those two types are the biggest in question. Now, I recently took another cognitive function test again. While this one is not as reliable and thoruguh, it still is good at giving insight. It gave me: Si=Te=Ni>Fe>Fi>Ti>Ne>Se.

It is pretty clear to me (despite that result) that my Fe is stronger then my Te. Reason being is I feel more of an alignment with Fe in terms of emotions. I am not able to compartemetalize them and make them do what I want. I try really hard to do so, and I will in a way "force" it, but it never gets to the point that I want. I care far too much about the emotions and situations of others for me not to be controlled by Fe over Te. I am just able to use Te on myself, and I can link it with Fe when I am leading something.

This now brings me to the biggest issue: Si vs. Ni. These two scores for a while have been extremely close. Ni seems to always win out by a tiny amount, but not always. On classic MBTI tests, I have never once tested as a senor, but my intuitive score is often low, in the 20's/30's. This is because of me largely (while disliking both) preferring Ne over Se, which ends up making this score as such. I truly do have aspects of both Ni and Si, but I am wondering if I am over estimating my Ni. I am a highly intutive person. I rely on it for nearly everything. However, for big things, using inutition is so stressful for me. I much prefer Si, because I can rely on what has already happened; it's reliable. I refrence the past for everything when it comes to giving advice, predicting things, ect. It makes things more concerete for me and tangiable. I can truly trust it. I wonder if I have tricked myself into thinking if it is inutition. Another point for Si, is the fact that I can not break social rules, at all. I am so easily embaressed by people doing anything out of the norm in social contexts. Just watching them makes me feel unconfortable, and I will have the urge to yell at my friends for doing so. It's rude, and should not be done unless we are on our own.

I have a very high Judging score (in the 70's/80's) and I think this is because of Si and Ni. While they are both perceving functions, they appear like judging functions because of how they are filtered. I wonder if Si is the reason for this. I am anal retentive to a high degree, and if things are not done just right, I get flustered. Of course, if I give myself enough time I can bend my own rules to apply to something new, but I need the time to do it and accept it.

I don't want this to go for too long as an intro. I will stop right here for now, and add more and discuss as people comment and reply.

 

[Ria]

Hi Indigo,

I have to tell you how wierd this sounds because I just came in from sitting outside in the rain, smoking a cigar. I was aware almost immidiately, how almost "sad" I became, when I was in the rain. It's as though my Fe was so open to the outer world and I again, began to question my type. I know my Ni and Ne are very strong, yet I question if it's my "senses" that dictate my feelings sometimes too. How come we seem to be so in synch at times???

However, I still think that both of us are mainly INFJ. That is what I typed you. I don't believe you are INTJ, as I know how stressful your recent past has been. Considering that, I feel more so, that you are simply in the process now of focussing your thoughts and energy on stratagising your present life. It's normal to slip in and out of type, and I'll never forget how on the ball you were, with your PM that evening. Your intuition was spot on. Shifts and resistance is natural, you have to be able to adapt, then when the dust eventually settles, you'll find yourself back to feeling like an INFJ again, lol

 

[Quinlan]

*GASPS*

*long pause*

INFJ

 

[slant]

Look how much typing was in that first post! INTJ!

 

[jn56uytrx]

Another point for Si, is the fact that I can not break social rules, at all. I am so easily embaressed by people doing anything out of the norm in social contexts. Just watching them makes me feel unconfortable, and I will have the urge to yell at my friends for doing so. It's rude, and should not be done unless we are on our own.

Is this Si? It sounds more like Fe to me, but I admit I'm not very sure about the details of what Si is.

I think among the types of people I have the most fondness for in my life, ISFJ is in there. They have typically been women and they have typically been the quiet servant types. I feel a sense of resonance will their willingness to serve quietly in the background. I also feel resonance with their kindness and care for others. I sense that they admire my insights and perspectives, but generally when we begin to wade into this territory is where I begin to lose the sense of resonance and feel different.

Aside from the breakdown of functions (because despite what natural ordering is, I believe we can develop facility with any of the functions), do you resonate with people of these other types? On what level?

 

[Duty]

The possibility of you being a thinker is obscenely remote.

You're either INFJ or ISFJ. Because you're a bit of a nutter and concerned about self reflection, I think that brings you easily into the N part of that separation.


You're one of the most INFJ people I've talked to Indigo. I'm going to post a big post on Spiral Dynamics soon, and I think you'll find a lot of yourself in the "Blue" level of that. Blue sounds a lot like SJ land, but it isn't. Most people on this board are blues and oranges, with greens dotting the landscape here and there. I purpose that you're INFJ, you just see the "blue" in you.

You'll see what I mean when I make my post.

 

[Duty]

Is this Si? It sounds more like Fe to me, but I admit I'm not very sure about the details of what Si is.

Tovlo speaks truly. This is Fe, not Si.


Question: Do you tend to judge yourself based on how the world responds to you, or based on an internal value system of your own design?

 

[arbygil]

Indy, to be honest I think MBTI is more of an overall picture rather than specific "rules" of type. I think what you feel is Si is more your judging function and maybe Fe. You know we're all a mix...but it's the total picture that makes you who you are.

My take, anyway.

ETA - Oh, yeah: You're an INFJ with strong Si, boyo.

 

[sassafras]

Indy, you are an INFJ. Deal with it

 

[Soulful]

You are trying to type yourself according to an 'imperfect' system. Sometimes MBTI fits like a glove, and sometimes the shades are more grey. Perhaps you are an INsFJ; an INFJ with an optional Si "wing", to borrow from the enneagram.

I think your type is INFJ or ISFJ rather than INTJ/ISTJ, for sure. If I had to choose, I would say an INFJ with well developed T and Si preferences.

 

[IndigoSensor]

I am actually legit surprised that not a single person, thinks I am an ISFJ, and everyone (excluding slant), thinks I am INFJ.

I am still not going to take this sitting down just yet, I am still processing it. This isn't the first time that someone has told me I am confusing Si for Fe. On the surface, that seems rather impossible, but I can see it being a possibillity. Simply for the fact that my use of Si is almost entirely in the context of dealing with people. Indeed it could also be from my judging score.

While also yes, I am intuitive, and I come across very much this way. I truly wonder if it is really intuition. More and more I realise that I feel like many times when I explain something, or give advice, I am just echoing what I recently went through, what someone else has told me, or something I saw. It all seems to come from stuff I have experienced already. I get very parinoid if I can't pin something down, and at times I feel like I am a bit too gruff when it comes to giving advice, and "intuiting" things. I end up bring up the practicality of things at some point, and making the notice that it is one of the most important factors.

Another thing is I do understand that this is an imperfect system, and that not everyone fits right. Still, I feel that I can make myself fit into a box, and that is what I am trying to do right now. I will make it work somehow. And that, right there, is another sign of Si, making things work even if they have changed or become unreliable.

This is why I am unsure.

 

[arbygil]

Indy, I can tell you that I went on a similar journey, with maybe the same types of questions. I thought I was a hardcore sensor when I first started - and I'd never really known about MBTI. I honestly thought I was simply "highly observant"...I thought I was sensor supreme, for lack of a better word. In my mind I was picking up clues and I was even able to trace back my steps and show folks how I observed things. But truth was, sometimes I just "knew" and I couldn't trace back those steps...and in reality, I was doing things that weren't normal for Sensors. It took effort for me to trace back my steps but if asked I could do it.

We use all the 16 processes. But what makes us who we are isn't that we can use those processes, or even use them well. It's our preference for those things. And sometimes we can do something for so long that we think we prefer it...but we could in fact be using that process because of stress or because we feel our main one isn't working too well.

Keep exploring who you are - you're still young! Ni can be a pain, especially when you can't turn it off. It's like hearing white noise all the time and suddenly you're tuning into it.

 

[IndigoSensor]

MBTI test

Ok, so here are the results of the MBTI test. I just took it again to "update" it. This time, I was rather scrupulous when it came to the questions, particular with anything that seemed N/S like. I often would default responses on this test, but I reconcidered them some, and I got these results this time. First time I ever got an S on this test.

[SIZE=+1]Your Type is
[SIZE=+2] ISFJ
[/SIZE][/SIZE]11 - Introverted
01 - Sensing
25 - Feeling
44 - Judging

 

[Faye]

When you said that you are embarrassed by friends breaking social rules, what did you mean?

I'm embarrassed too, but that doesn't mean that my Ni is inferior, though I'm not saying you implied that connection.

I still think that you are INFJ with variation. Perhaps you've found it advantageous to switch into ISXJ modes given your environment. I have had to switch into Te because of my environment.

I still think that you're INFJ primarily though, and it doesn't mean that your N is small either. You definitely can sort through things intuitively.

 

[IndigoSensor]

When I say breaking unspoken social rules, I mean doing anything that could upset the peace. Speaking too loudly, saying things that are innapropriate/rude/politically-incorrect, making improper body gestures. Generally, making a scene. Or anything that draws too much attention. It is for this reason I stay away from protests (even if I agree with the cause).

I do agree that I use Ni, I have no disregarded it. I also though, have noticed that I tend to use Ni much more when I am stressed out. That is when it seems to come to the rescue in a way. Earlier, I was getting angry over something I had to do. I walked away from the computer, and layed down on the floor face down for a half hour. Not entirely sure why. With a little pressure internally, I made myself calm, and I was then able to get back and do what I needed to do. That is Ni, I know this. It was caused by stress though. It seems more commonly used in stress. Shoudln't Ni be used more often in a non-stressed way? If so this would signify that my Ni is false.

Really, it could also be that I have gotten so efficent with Ni, that i am now setting my personal standard for it way too high.

 

[Morgain]

Have you looked into Beebes theory yet?

Van Hase has recently posted a good tread about it. You could relate all the functions to the place they have in the INFJ and ISFJ profile and see if it correlates with how you use them.

Beebe theorized that the placement of each function within a type has a great impact on how an individual uses that function. In essence, this is really where personality comes into play with respect to cognitive functions. It's not a question of how well developed one's functions are, but how those functions are used by the individual.

for INFJ it would be

for ISFJ you will have to switch Ni with Si and Ne with Se

Ni dominant function

 

[jn56uytrx]

I do agree that I use Ni, I have no disregarded it. I also though, have noticed that I tend to use Ni much more when I am stressed out. That is when it seems to come to the rescue in a way. Earlier, I was getting angry over something I had to do. I walked away from the computer, and layed down on the floor face down for a half hour. Not entirely sure why. With a little pressure internally, I made myself calm, and I was then able to get back and do what I needed to do. That is Ni, I know this. It was caused by stress though. It seems more commonly used in stress. Shoudln't Ni be used more often in a non-stressed way? If so this would signify that my Ni is false.

I can appreciate wondering if Ni is dominant or shadow when you seem to notice it most under stress, however I did have two thoughts about what you said here.

1) A shadow or lesser function that displays itself during stress usually displays a negative expression of that function. It sounds as if your Ni is supporting you healthily during times of stress in this description.

2) I immediately thought about Beebe too when I read this from you. Before I felt secure in my MBTI type, a friend who was well-versed in Beebe archetypes went through an archetype exercise with me. She "tested" my functions (before explaining anything to me) by asking me which function tends to come to my rescue. Not knowing where things were headed I immediately recognized Ni as my hero (dominant function). Based on your description above, I had an immediate sense of Ni as hero coming to your rescue.


Edit:

If you're interested in exploring the archetype experience for various types in your discernment, take a look at the type sheets from this site. The archetype descriptions seem in line with what Morgain posted above, but give a little more detail and some exercises for exploration.

 

[WaeV]

Well, I don't have much to say about your being N or S, but I can assure you that you are not INTJ. That whole thread about "Is self-analysis selfish(bad)?" is pure Fe, guy. I'd say the majority of INTJ forum believes that selflessness is bad as wholly as many here believe that selfishness is bad. (Myself excluded, read my post in the other thread if you're curious about my stance.)

 

[VH]

I am actually legit surprised that not a single person, thinks I am an ISFJ, and everyone (excluding slant), thinks I am INFJ.

If I am on the fence about anything, it's about you being an INTJ (which is why I chose that vote on this pole), as you remind me a LOT of my INTJ best friend, especially with the way you make leaps of logic. However, I do believe you are an INFJ because I too believe you are confusing your Fe with your Si.

I am still not going to take this sitting down just yet, I am still processing it. This isn't the first time that someone has told me I am confusing Si for Fe. On the surface, that seems rather impossible, but I can see it being a possibillity. Simply for the fact that my use of Si is almost entirely in the context of dealing with people. Indeed it could also be from my judging score.

Fe has as a downside (and if anyone understands this it is me) a very resolute ability to feel how things should be. When combined with Ti, which pays attention to the micro picture of how things work, it creates a very clear sense of how the details are supposed to work. I am almost convinced that this is the case with you, and your self assessment because I am constantly doing the same thing. What you describe as Si isn't actually Si. It's Fe working in tandem with Ti.

Proof of this...

Your memory is good, but you don't express your worldview through your memories like an Si person does. You don't dwell on the details of what people have done as if they are now present reality like an Si person. Si isn't an indicator of how good someone's memory is. It's an indicator of how much they live in their memory.

Your perspective is based in seeking connections and hidden meanings. You're Ni dominant if ever anyone was. You are a posterboy for Ni dominance.

Further proof of this...

The only time you dwell on the past is when someone or something does something you felt it wasn't supposed to. When things go the way they you feel they are supposed to, you don't pay much attention. The two things that pull your attention more than anything are the unknown (Ni) and the supposed tos (Fe), followed third by how it works and relates (Ti and Te).

Even more proof of this...

Doing the same monotonous micro managing reptitive menial activity drives you nuts. This is the realm of Si, if nothing else. Si people are energized by doing reptitive menial activity. You are not. You are energized by seeking the answers (again, Ni). Si people are frequently vexed, often angered, and sometimes infuriated by people who have a problem with reptitive menial activity, wondering what the hell is wrong with us.

While also yes, I am intuitive, and I come across very much this way. I truly wonder if it is really intuition. More and more I realise that I feel like many times when I explain something, or give advice, I am just echoing what I recently went through, what someone else has told me, or something I saw. It all seems to come from stuff I have experienced already. I get very parinoid if I can't pin something down, and at times I feel like I am a bit too gruff when it comes to giving advice, and "intuiting" things. I end up bring up the practicality of things at some point, and making the notice that it is one of the most important factors.

Introverted Intuition is not 'intuition' on a psychic level. Ni is subconscious pattern recognition based on understanding of pattern. Ni doesn't work unless we already understand something. You know this. Ni first seeks to understand the pattern, and that urge is strong in you because you are Ni dominant. Once you understand the pattern, Ni then just pulls the answer out of what seems to be nowhere. The truth of the matter is, Ni is nothing more than a pattern based filing system through which we 'just know' things based on how we store the information. Again, what you are describing is actually VERY Ni.

Another thing is I do understand that this is an imperfect system, and that not everyone fits right. Still, I feel that I can make myself fit into a box, and that is what I am trying to do right now. I will make it work somehow. And that, right there, is another sign of Si, making things work even if they have changed or become unreliable.

This is why I am unsure.

Yet again, Ni is picking up on things (the similarities between what you assume is Si and the way your Ni and Fe manifest) and then your Fe is forced to change how it feels things should be.

Ok, so here are the results of the MBTI test. I just took it again to "update" it. This time, I was rather scrupulous when it came to the questions, particular with anything that seemed N/S like. I often would default responses on this test, but I reconcidered them some, and I got these results this time. First time I ever got an S on this test.

[SIZE=+1]Your Type is
[SIZE=+2] ISFJ
[/SIZE][/SIZE]11 - Introverted
01 - Sensing
25 - Feeling
44 - Judging

You're taking a 01% lean on a self assessment test seriously?

Your S score is because you're identifying more with the sorts of things the questions that assess S functions are asking. You're neck deep into tedium with your classes, and you're opening yourself to the possibility that there is more to yourself than you had previously considered, because you were so comfortable with the INFJ box, then realized it wasn't a perfect fit. Fe and Ti want things to be perfect. Ni seeks answers.

For these reason, I say you are an INFJ. The only other possibility for you is that you are an INTJ. I've seen men and women over estimate their respective T and F functions, due to gender bias. As a gay man, it is possible (though very unlikely) that you're over estimating your F function, and you're actually an INTJ with a well developed Te and Fi pairing that creates an effect similar to Fe and Ti. I've seen a strong Te in you, as you are VERY good at seeing the big picture and how things relate. I've also seen a fair amount of healthy Fi in you, as you strive to be a good person and help others on a one on one basis (This is exacltly what my INTJ does, except she's much more of a hard ass about it). In both cases, you seem to be Te and Fe strong with solid Ti and Fi supporting. INTJ is the only other possibility I would ever entertain for your best fit type.

Remember, no one, and I mean NO ONE (Jung agrees) is going to fit any of these types perfectly, because types fit us not the other way around. We are all bigger than the type that best fits us. You are definitely an Ni domininant. There is no getting around that. And that leaves only two options... INFJ (which I believe to be your best fit) and INTJ (which I believe to be a back up type for you).

 

[Soulful]

You are trying to type yourself according to an 'imperfect' system. Sometimes MBTI fits like a glove, and sometimes the shades are more grey.

Another thing is I do understand that this is an imperfect system, and that not everyone fits right. Still, I feel that I can make myself fit into a box, and that is what I am trying to do right now. I will make it work somehow. And that, right there, is another sign of Si, making things work even if they have changed or become unreliable.

Sorry Indigo, I knew you know this, I worded myself poorly. What I meant was that it might be an incomplete system that's undeveloped to the point of not being equipped to handle certain variances or levels of development. That said, I also have a somewhat rudimentary understanding of MBTI and some of the processes, so maybe it's much more developed than I realize.

I can see why you are considering ISFJ as a type. I am curious how you identify with both INFJ and ISFJ type descriptions? Personally, I really like this one: http://personalityinstitute.tripod.com/INFJs.htm (you can switch the N for the S in the html address). There are several sites with excellent overviews. I don't know, again, if that's more rudimentary than going about it by examining the order of your processes though.

Another thought is that you strike me more as an NF than SJ, if looking at it through the NF/SP/NT/SJ lens. You actually don't seem like an SJ at all, from what I've observed. Your natural propensity towards being yourself, and not conforming to a senseless status quo, in addition to your drive for self-reflection and self-understanding really make me think NF, rather than SJ. There is more to type than this, for sure, but that's why I say INFJ when you ask, because I can't shake some of these characteristics that seem to be dominant in what guides you through life/how you approach life.

I am curious about something else. When did you develop Si? Was it always present with you, or a tool you began to use in order to figure out your social world when you were younger?