I Don't Know What Title To Put >.<

[Bellosome]

I've recently watched the movie Comet. It's a great movie, it sort of depicts different mbti relationships (seeing as i am in an intj-infj relationship i somehow related to it.)

The guy in the story never believed in love--but believes in the idea of it (similar of an intj) but in the end, he cannot see life without love because of the girl.

Anyway, the moral of the story was that, there's always a great love. But, not all ends well. It might be beautiful, the other might not be able to move on and in the end, what matters was how you learned from it.

I guess my question is,
How can you say you truly "love" a person? (Romantically speaking) I know love doesn't have a definite meaning but i'm sure some of you have said "i love you" from ex lovers, but then the relationship ended.. Is love conditional? If you've been into many relationships, Can you say, that you have loved all your exes the same way? Or you loved one more than the other?

 

[endersgone]

In my honest opinion, if you really do "love" someone it isn't conditional. Things may not work out/one or both parties might be hurt or resentful, but the love for them is still there.

I think love can come in a variety of forms, and it's never totally the same from one relationship to the next. There isn't a proper way to gauge less vs. more for myself, maybe others have it. For me love changes too much to be binarily separated.

 

[Asa]

There are different kinds of love and there are a lot of emotions and relationships between 'lust' and 'love' that have no descriptive words.

 

[Bellosome]

There are different kinds of love and there are a lot of emotions and relationships between 'lust' and 'love' that have no descriptive words.

I was asking romantic love. I just feel like, personally, when i asked on another thread what love is, in general, i don't think i've experienced it unless we're talking of familial love.. Since the answers were that love is non reciprocal.. So i'm trying to figure out how does it work romantically if people and their needs change overtime..

 

[endersgone]

I was asking romantic love. I just feel like, personally, when i asked on another thread what love is, in general, i don't think i've experienced it unless we're talking of familial love.. Since the answers were that love is non reciprocal.. So i'm trying to figure out how does it work romantically if people and their needs change overtime..

*edit*
There is no set form or way to love someone (or feel about it), it's going to feel different depending on yourself and who you're with. I guess as an example..in the context of a relationship I feel it in a variety of ways; our friendship, depth of our emotional connection, physical touch, words of affirmation.. These are all different forms of love for me that I find important in my relationships (and love feels like these are being fulfilled), I'm generalizing when I say the word love, as it's a culmination of all these different forms (but different people show these things in different ways, of course....so it can be different). People's needs may vary over time, but that lessens as you become more settled in your life/lifestyle. Certain things will stick out to you as being indispensable to what you need to feel: loved, appreciated, supported, etc... ultimately leading to you seek these things in an SO (and filtering people out who don't fulfill/fit your needs).

 

[Asa]

I was asking romantic love. I just feel like, personally, when i asked on another thread what love is, in general, i don't think i've experienced it unless we're talking of familial love.. Since the answers were that love is non reciprocal.. So i'm trying to figure out how does it work romantically if people and their needs change overtime..

I meant romantic love. There are different kinds of romantic love and there are a lot of emotions and relationships between 'lust' and 'love' that have no descriptive words.
^^ Edited a bit

Every relationship is different, so I can't label your relationships.

Some loves are meant to be short.
People have this idea that every relationship has to last forever, but it isn't true. Sometimes the perfect length of a relationship is only a few months or years. You grow together, enrich each other's lives, learn, have a lot of fun, then some tears, and move on. It's beautiful in a painful way.

I've never "been in love with" anyone except my SO. I was not in love with the people who came before him, no matter how deeply I cared for them. I had nothing to compare my feelings for my exes to, so I mistook it for love. It does not mean I did not 'love' them in some way, but it was nothing like my relationship with my SO. My time with them was still worthwhile. I learned from every relationship, even if it was a terrible pairing.

 

[endersgone]

I meant romantic love. There are different kinds of romantic love and there are a lot of emotions and relationships between 'lust' and 'love' that have no descriptive words.
^^ Edited a bit

Every relationship is different, so I can't label your relationships.

Some loves are meant to be short.
People have this idea that every relationship has to last forever, but it isn't true. Sometimes the perfect length of a relationship is only a few months or years. You grow together, enrich each other's lives, learn, have a lot of fun, then some tears, and move on. It's beautiful in a painful way.

I've never "been in love with" anyone except my SO. I was not in love with the people who came before him, no matter how deeply I cared for them. I had nothing to compare my feelings for my exes to, so I mistook it for love. It does not mean I did not 'love' them in some way, but it was nothing like my relationship with my SO. My time with them was still worthwhile. I learned from every relationship, even if it was a terrible pairing.

I don't mean to argue, but I think this is a primary reason for the failure of many relationships. People are looking for a particular type of "feeling", how do you differentiate love and caring? -- so many people are searching for an intoxicating feeling to define their love by. I can't speak for you personally or how you experience love, but I think many have "love" vs "in love" in their minds --- it's just terminology we've applied to a certain set of circumstances and/or a relationship (it doesn't encompass what love really means). I hate the application of these different terms, they ultimately mean the same thing-- we just focus on our state of mind and the emotional highs/lows we seem to experience.

(side note---I have no idea how you experience it so.. really this is just a side rant not directed at you... I just like discussing this topic)

*rant rant, I'm getting old, rant rant*
I point this out in particular because many leave (or betray) their partners of many years simply to experience the intoxication again. It becomes a never ending cycle of emotional highs and lows that is preferable to the status quo we become accustomed to. It's actually pretty interesting psychologically that we often prefer more stress -- up/downs in love, but it's depressing to me too.

I guess it all comes down to a personal definition for love--- mine is different from many others.
apologies I can't shut my damn mouth, lol *last edit*

 

[Bellosome]

I've never "been in love with" anyone except my SO. I was not in love with the people who came before him, no matter how deeply I cared for them. I had nothing to compare my feelings for my exes to, so I mistook it for love. It does not mean I did not 'love' them in some way, but it was nothing like my relationship with my SO. My time with them was still worthwhile. I learned from every relationship, even if it was a terrible pairing.

This is what i was thinking about. I mean, people mistake caring deeply as love.

I'm just arguing with myself to be honest. >.< i'm sorry if my reply was sort of snappy. I try to justify what i feel or what the other feels. if it's just caring deeply or just attachment, comfortability or real love..

all my family members has strong Te. So it's hard for me to relate. I was shaped to believe that love is learned, not felt. And i am questioning everything now that i have strong feelings towards it.

Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate it

 

[Sriracha]

ISFJ POV: Love changes over time. Unconditional love requires you to roll with the punches, and strive towards (I think the word I'm looking for is) harmony with your partner. Of course you have all the warm fuzzy feelings in the beginning, and that may last for many years ... in very rare circumstances does that last forever. Mr.S and I have been through a lot of good times and a lot of bad times; a lot of feeling connected and feeling disconnected; a lot of role change adaptions and stress; a lot of understanding how we process information differently and take action differently, but also relying on each other for support/advice on what to do.

It's been 18 years next month for us in marriage, that means 23 years altogether. I look at Mr.S now and feel at harmony in our marriage. I look at Mr.S now and look back at everything we have gone through ... the support he has given me through 2 children, both of my parents dying, etc. There is no one else on the planet that can take his place in those respects. There is no other man who can say they knew my parents, and somehow that is extremely important to me. Now the support perpetuates onto me with his parents, giving support to his mother who is taking care of his ailing father. It's unfortunate that these are the times which keep you connected as a family, but I see how much we really do rely on each other. One family unit functioning as one entity.

Mr.S knows me more than anyone. He's the only one that has seen me at my best and at my worst, yet I have not scared him away (I find that miraculous in itself b/c he has ALWAYS been so grounded.) I didn't marry Mr.S for warm fuzzies. Needless to say I had no feelings but despair at the time b/c my mother died 3 months prior. I walked down the aisle feeling happy and sorrow at the same time, knowing she wouldn't be there, knowing she'd never know my future children. Even as I type that I have tears rolling down my face. Yet, this didn't scare him. I have so much respect for Mr.S, and getting to that place has been a long journey ... getting to a place of having a sound mind is a long journey as well. I believe as long as both people are striving to do better, or be better (doesn't have to be at the same time, or together) the relationship will get to where it needs to be.

I think quite honestly the one thing that has keep us married for so long is the amount of alone time we have from each other. I'm not the type that could marry someone who was in a 9 to 5 job. I like being alone, I don't enjoy a power struggle over who is doing what, and I especially get tired of having to check in my whereabouts. The time apart gives us both a break from that monotony, and gives us both an opportunity to exhibit individual independence.

ETA: This is to note that obviously what I wrote is not for everyone. Some are not cut out for long term relationships, some are not cut out for them at all ... it's really not a big deal. You do what YOU feel is best for you without pressure from friends or family.

 

[Bellosome]

Lol

I don't mean to argue, but I think this is a primary reason for the failure of many relationships. People are looking for a particular type of "feeling", how do you differentiate love and caring? -- so many people are searching for an intoxicating feeling to define their love by. I can't speak for you personally or how you experience love, but I think many have "love" vs "in love" in their minds --- it's just terminology we've applied to a certain set of circumstances and/or a relationship (it doesn't encompass what love really means). I hate the application of these different terms, they ultimately mean the same thing-- we just focus on our state of mind and the emotional highs/lows we seem to experience.

(side note---I have no idea how you experience it so, really this is just a side rant not directed at you... I just like discussing this topic)

*rant rant, I'm getting old, rant rant*
I point this out in particular because many leave (or betray) their partners of many years simply to experience the intoxication again. It becomes a never ending cycle of emotional highs and lows that is preferable to the status quo we become accustomed to. It's actually pretty interesting psychologically that we often prefer more stress -- up/downs in love, but it's depressing to me too.

I guess it all comes down to a personal definition for love--- mine is different from many others.
apologies I can't shut my damn mouth, lol *last edit*

Lol. You have properly put to words all my thoughts. Because, if love is unconditional, why does people set standards? And then they'll say "i love him" they get married then years later it's either they cheat,seperate or divorce.

I've read articles about how would you know someone truly loves you--to which i find absurd because we experience it differently..

Personally, i'm just scared to be one of those people who will mistake a deep care over love. Hence why i made this thread. I've been debating with myself the "why's" and "hows" that comes with romantic relationships. I never questioned friendships and family love, just romantic because lately, people are throwing the love word like it's nothing..

 

[Bellosome]

ISFJ POV: Love changes over time. Unconditional love requires you to roll with the punches, and strive towards (I think the word I'm looking for is) harmony with your partner. Of course you have all the warm fuzzy feelings in the beginning, and that may last for many years ... in very rare circumstances does that last forever. Mr.S and I have been through a lot of good times and a lot of bad times; a lot of feeling connected and feeling disconnected; a lot of role change adaptions and stress; a lot of understanding how we process information differently and take action differently, but also relying on each other for support/advice on what to do.

It's been 18 years next month for us in marriage, that means 23 years altogether. I look at Mr.S now and feel at harmony in our marriage. I look at Mr.S now and look back at everything we have gone through ... the support he has given me through 2 children, both of my parents dying, etc. There is no one else on the planet that can take his place in those respects. There is no other man who can say they knew my parents, and somehow that is extremely important to me. Now the support perpetuates onto me with his parents, giving support to his mother who is taking care of his ailing father. It's unfortunate that these are the times which keep you connected as a family, but I see how much we really do rely on each other. One family unit functioning as one entity.

Mr.S knows me more than anyone. He's the only one that has seen me at my best and at my worst, yet I have not scared him away (I find that miraculous in itself b/c he has ALWAYS been so grounded.) I didn't marry Mr.S for warm fuzzies. Needless to say I had no feelings but despair at the time b/c my mother died 3 months prior. I walked down the aisle feeling happy and sorrow at the same time, knowing she wouldn't be there, knowing she'd never know my future children. Even as I type that I have tears rolling down my face. Yet, this didn't scare him. I have so much respect for Mr.S, and getting to that place has been a long journey ... getting to a place of having a sound mind is a long journey as well. I believe as long as both people are striving to do better, or be better (doesn't have to be at the same time, or together) the relationship will get to where it needs to be.

That was beautiful definition of love. That's love in my opinion too. *hugs* i know what it's like to lose a parent. The hurt doesn't go away, you just live with it. Thank you for your warm reply!

 

[Kgal]

I think quite honestly the one thing that has keep us married for so long is the amount of alone time we have from each other. I'm not the type that could marry someone who was in a 9 to 5 job. I like being alone, I don't enjoy a power struggle over who is doing what, and I especially get tired of having to check in my whereabouts. The time apart gives us both a break from that monotony, and gives us both an opportunity to exhibit individual independence.

I truly believe this is the reason Mr. Kgal and I still interact and love one another for as much (or little) as we can.
You said it beautifully when you said "...gives an opportunity to exhibit individual independence..." and I'd add and expand our awareness of Self.

 

[Kgal]

The "Falling in Love" process is starts out with conditions placed upon the relationship and the person involved.
We are in a state of Bliss first because certain chemicals are generated within the brain and are pleasurable for the body. This is one level of many factors that happen during the Falling In Love process.
So there we are....blissed out both in Mind and Body....just for even Thinking about the object of our love....our Beloved. Yes?
We know the saying "What fires together...wires together" means whatever data we take in during intense emotional states becomes "hard wired" in our brain...and is the underlying physical basis of Addiction.
On some level we become addicted to our Beloved.This happens because each time we turn our attention to the Beloved we instantly flood our bodies with the chemical and we feel Bliss. ...they become very desirable to us.
To further complicate the FIL process while blissed out in the presence of our Beloved we don't care what else they do...those annoying actions we don't normally tolerate...as long as they "do" that thing...or set of behaviors....that we fell in love with....AND maintains the bliss state we're in.
Now... research has shown this Bliss state of chemistry between the two persons in love with each other lasts any where from about 9 months to 2 years. After that it tapers off....
Once we begin to feel the loss of the chemical in contrast to previous months of bliss... then each participant in this relationship begins to move through their own various coping strategies to have more moments of Bliss with each other.
Similar to other addiction withdrawal processes the brain just can't keep making the chemical like it used to...It in fact needs a chance to rest and regenerate....so then problems arise in the relationships.
Those in long term relationships usually have children involved and parents can feel much love when they focus their awareness upon them. This helps keep the persons in a long term relationship because they are receiving love from other sources than each other. Hence those that have children with the first phase of a Falling In Love relationship have a tendency to stay together longer.
Those of us who do not have children use other coping skill including and especially... alone time....and a willingness to allow each other to change.

Eventually children leave and then it boils down to allowing each other to be creative and expressive for their own benefit. In that way one takes responsibility for generating their own feel good love chemicals by learning to love themselves first. Then it becomes easier to allow the partner to change as befits their own journey of self growth and awareness.
...which in my experience is true love.

 

[Bellosome]

The "Falling in Love" process is starts out with conditions placed upon the relationship and the person involved.
We are in a state of Bliss first because certain chemicals are generated within the brain and are pleasurable for the body. This is one level of many factors that happen during the Falling In Love process.
So there we are....blissed out both in Mind and Body....just for even Thinking about the object of our love....our Beloved. Yes?
We know the saying "What fires together...wires together" means whatever data we take in during intense emotional states becomes "hard wired" in our brain...and is the underlying physical basis of Addiction.
On some level we become addicted to our Beloved.This happens because each time we turn our attention to the Beloved we instantly flood our bodies with the chemical and we feel Bliss. ...they become very desirable to us.
To further complicate the FIL process while blissed out in the presence of our Beloved we don't care what else they do...those annoying actions we don't normally tolerate...as long as they "do" that thing...or set of behaviors....that we fell in love with....AND maintains the bliss state we're in.
Now... research has shown this Bliss state of chemistry between the two persons in love with each other lasts any where from about 9 months to 2 years. After that it tapers off....
Once we begin to feel the loss of the chemical in contrast to previous months of bliss... then each participant in this relationship begins to move through their own various coping strategies to have more moments of Bliss with each other.
Similar to other addiction withdrawal processes the brain just can't keep making the chemical like it used to...It in fact needs a chance to rest and regenerate....so then problems arise in the relationships.
Those in long term relationships usually have children involved and parents can feel much love when they focus their awareness upon them. This helps keep the persons in a long term relationship because they are receiving love from other sources than each other. Hence those that have children with the first phase of a Falling In Love relationship have a tendency to stay together longer.
Those of us who do not have children use other coping skill including and especially... alone time....and a willingness to allow each other to change.

Eventually children leave and then it boils down to allowing each other to be creative and expressive for their own benefit. In that way one takes responsibility for generating their own feel good love chemicals by learning to love themselves first. Then it becomes easier to allow the partner to change as befits their own journey of self growth and awareness.
...which in my experience is true love.

Wow.. This is VERY detailed, thank you.

So does that mean, that the initial "attraction"(i dont want to use love) is just our minds producing the feel good chemicals.. And the actual love is a choice to stay with that person inspite and despite of everything that you dont like about them...?

 

[Kgal]

Wow.. This is VERY detailed, thank you.

So does that mean, that the initial "attraction"(i dont want to use love) is just our minds producing the feel good chemicals.. And the actual love is a choice to stay with that person inspite and despite of everything that you dont like about them...?

I think it would be helpful if we could look at it as All Inclusive. It is not This or That....but more like This AND That.
Yes...the initial attraction is our minds producing feel good chemicals...
....AND it is also our heart leading us towards an experience we ....shall we say...need to have in order to further our evolution.

AND best of all... the whole experience can contain within it also fantastic physical encounters leading to exquisite orgasms and cosmic awareness.

So you see it can be all of these things going on simultaneously. Just because the feel good chemicals are produced does not diminish the overall potential for a fantastic experience of falling in love. Right? I do not say these things to reduce the FIL down to labels and constructs. I speak of these things to help us gain and understanding of the intricacies of the process...however wonderful and painful it may turn out to be.

I somewhat agree with you that the actual Love...what I suspect you are referring to as Unconditional Love.... is the choice to stay with the person even though you find your self in resistance to aspects of them.
It's more than that though....for we do not want to portray ourselves as being a martyr for "putting up with their flaws". All that is ...is another form of judgment....and we seek to move away from that kind of behavior.
To get to a place of unconditional love we begin by noticing we are judging their flaws. We notice our emotional reaction and mind chatter when these alleged flaws are noted. Then we start questioning our selves Why we think they're flaws.
This can one of the best purposes for staying with our Beloved....as one of their gifts to us of being in relationship with us is to mirror hidden aspects of our selves to us. It can be the fact we secretly wish we were more playful....and they become the catalyst for us to play....and we grow in confidence in our ability to play.
It could be they present triggers to our hidden trauma which gives us a chance to bring that up...look at it...and let it heal.
My ongoing relationship with an INTJ has been a huge learning mirror and catalyst for me. Hahahahahah.... Holy Cow what a wild ride it's been with him.

At any rate we could make the decision to stay with our Beloved for our personal gain too....if we can learn how to feel what arises and see it as an opportunity to love more deeply. Not only ourselves...but the Beloved. You see I've found whenever I look at my belief system around alleged flaws...whether it be another person...or my own... I find the framework of the belief really doesn't belong in my way of thinking and being anymore. So I let those beliefs go...and the ability to Love increases in my heart.

 

[Bellosome]

Your explanation has cleared the fog in my head and the doubt in my heart and more.. It has helped me, realized the root of why i'm questioning these things. Thank you for your words..

 

[Kgal]

Your explanation has cleared the fog in my head and the doubt in my heart and more.. It has helped me, realized the root of why i'm questioning these things. Thank you for your words..

It is my immense pleasure to see the fog clearing for your heart. Namaste'

 

[charlatan]

I guess my question is,
How can you say you truly "love" a person? (Romantically speaking) I know love doesn't have a definite meaning but i'm sure some of you have said "i love you" from ex lovers, but then the relationship ended.. Is love conditional? If you've been into many relationships, Can you say, that you have loved all your exes the same way? Or you loved one more than the other?

I don't personally have a distinction between the *deepest* of caring and love that I have ever found convincing, but if you mean romantic love, sure one can draw a distinction (but I never accept the view that romantic love is greater, only different). Personally, I think the most plausible view I've found is that not everyone is romantic to equal degrees -- there is no reason one person's non-romantic love cannot be as intense, committed, and life-and-death as another's romantic love.
And to be totally honest, I think some overestimate how romantic they are in psychology, and may try to force the concept to fit.

Relationships are a whole other issue -- relationships involve pragmatics, not just love, romance, or caring; and I think at times recognizing pragmatics ended a relationship rather than reasons inherent to the relations between people can lead to the love remaining past the relationship's end.

I believe there are broadly two types of psychological drives to love: one is connection, and the other is nurturing. Connection is the element where you find intense meaning in the fact that such a person exists, where they fulfill some gap that otherwise remains, and thus the tender feelings you have for them are magnified. Nurturing is more akin to the relation a mother has with child. They are powerful in different ways.

The typical problem in romance is that connection is closely related to attraction, which can be a selfish emotion (whereas nurturing rarely is). Hence the typical warning of passion overtaking love in romance.

I personally admit I have a bias to the nurturing kind, because I think it is a lot simpler not to screw up, and equally powerful. But I also am anti-narrowness and accept in the right cases, connection and chemistry fueling love can happen.

 

[Bellosome]

I believe there are broadly two types of psychological drives to love: one is connection, and the other is nurturing. Connection is the element where you find intense meaning in the fact that such a person exists, where they fulfill some gap that otherwise remains, and thus the tender feelings you have for them are magnified. Nurturing is more akin to the relation a mother has with child. They are powerful in different ways.

The typical problem in romance is that connection is closely related to attraction, which can be a selfish emotion (whereas nurturing rarely is). Hence the typical warning of passion overtaking love in romance.

I've never really thought of these two and it's difference. And it's probably what i am confused of. I think, people tend to connect love (with selfishness and societies' standards) that the true value of it is set aside. I don't know how to explain much further but i agree with everything that you said. Thank you.

 

[charlatan]

I've never really thought of these two and it's difference. And it's probably what i am confused of. I think, people tend to connect love (with selfishness and societies' standards) that the true value of it is set aside. I don't know how to explain much further but i agree with everything that you said. Thank you.

Basically I think one of them is simpler, the other is more complicated, intertwined with your identity, and so on; the simpler one is just plain based on tenderness. Romantic love is quite an idealistic concept as finding your other half is like finding yourself, whereas nurturing and tender love is typically more simple.

I think romantic love can be beautiful but I am kind of against how it's done in society, because it's sort of turning into a commodity something that really is an above-and-beyond kind of idealism -- as if everyone somehow will fit into that type of sentiment, rather than "just" caring deeply.
I think for some, their deepest passions and their tendermost loves are simply not going to be the same -- the standard notion (note that I understand there are many other notions) of romantic love is all about the case where they coincide, which does and can happen, but needn't.