How would you react? | INFJ Forum

How would you react?

just me

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2009
13,980
13,585
1,746
MBTI
infj
I just can't see myself acting like an idiot over something like the extremists are acting like the world over regarding a book. Do you think this was planned and used as an excuse? Maybe something to do with 9-11? Loss of a terrorist's life in Pakistan? How would you react?

I cannot help but mumble the word "peace" in the back of my mind while watching this on TV. I think of the mentality it would take to act in such a way. Anyone want to reason it alright? Maybe give them a few excuses? Remember how Libya and Egypt were helped by our President? True colors? All this is alright in their book?
 
May I ask to what are you referring?
lol. context, please. :) I haven't read the news today.
 
May I ask to what are you referring?
lol. context, please. :) I haven't read the news today.

Oceanbreeze, he is referring to the unrest and killings that occurred at the US Embassy in Libya, Egypt (no killing here, just protesting) and Yemen because of a movie or documentary on the internet that spoke bad about their prophet Mohamed.

Just me, it is hard to understand the mentality, isn't it? I do not know if it was spontaneous or stirred-up by Al-Queda...it is just crazy, to me, the way they act.
 
I just can't see myself acting like an idiot over something like the extremists are acting like the world over regarding a book. Do you think this was planned and used as an excuse? Maybe something to do with 9-11? Loss of a terrorist's life in Pakistan? How would you react?

I cannot help but mumble the word "peace" in the back of my mind while watching this on TV. I think of the mentality it would take to act in such a way. Anyone want to reason it alright? Maybe give them a few excuses? Remember how Libya and Egypt were helped by our President? True colors? All this is alright in their book?

You also live in an abundant and secular society.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tfg345i4u5lw
I don't know much about this. And I really don't want to defend thoughtless violence, but this isn't really just about one incident of poor representation.
I hear ya, though, it can be extremely hard to understand the motive for something that we'd never do.
 
The reasons for the embassy attacks and the riots were much bigger than the anti-muslim movie. Only reason that seems as if that's the reason is because US Media is basically run through the Pentagon (mass media outlets are tied to weapons companies through their Board of Directorates). I can't think of anything that explains the current situation better than this video, I suggest that everyone checks it out

[video=youtube;fSF-WmuDncU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSF-WmuDncU&feature=player_embedded[/video]
 
Seems like it is plain religious extremism, considering the fact this is the same general population-slash-mindset that killed a Dutch cartoonist for featuring the prophet Muhammed. Granted, an entire film making fun of him is a little more extreme than one cartoon, but it is the same mindset of criticize Muhammed and die. Also, Salman Rushdie was marked for execution for disrespecting Islam as well. Disrespecting the religion or anything approaching criticism does not go over too well.

Anyway.

I hope that extremism is not met with extremism, as I'm fairly sure there are plenty of non-extremist Libyans and Egyptians, but this whole situation does not look good.

Oh, and to answer the OP, well, I certainly wouldn't kill anyone or get upset if someone made an unflattering movie about Jesus. The Pope is irellevant to me and if people want to poke fun at Abraham Lincoln, I guess that's okay, but he is actually an interesting historical figure, so it would be better to study him, I would think, but what ever.

P.S. And I think it is a good idea to find out where the producers of that movie live and work and stay the hell away. I predict a shortened lifespan for them.

P.P.S. AND you know the film itself was made by religious extremists. So they're actually intentionally pissing each other off.
 
Last edited:
I just can't see myself acting like an idiot over something like the extremists are acting like the world over regarding a book. Do you think this was planned and used as an excuse? Maybe something to do with 9-11? Loss of a terrorist's life in Pakistan? How would you react?

I cannot help but mumble the word "peace" in the back of my mind while watching this on TV. I think of the mentality it would take to act in such a way. Anyone want to reason it alright? Maybe give them a few excuses? Remember how Libya and Egypt were helped by our President? True colors? All this is alright in their book?

I can't conclusively say Libya was helped by our president. I have reason to believe we overthrew Gaddafi's regime because he was planning on leaving the petrol-dollar and starting his own African Union. The African Union would have empowered the people of Africa but would have hurt the US economy, so we had to put in place a government that complied with our rules. I don't know if the citizens of Libya are necessarily happy we intervened, we caused a lot of blood shed and harm.

I think people should also understand Jihad and remove some of the negative connotations associated with the word Jihad. Depending on how it's interpreted, Jihad could mean "If someone is invading your country and harming you, it is your duty to fight back". I choose to believe that many Muslims interpret Jihad in this way. And that people of all races and ethnicity practice Jihad because Jihad is simply "self-defense". We cannot forget that we are occupying their land and stealing their resources.

Lastly, "The mentality to act such a way" is not that difficult to understand. Imagine (as a man) how you would feel if other men were invading your country, occupying your land, and stealing your resources. Imagine if one of those people killed your best friend or bombed one of your family members. Imagine if one of those people raped your mother or sister. You would want to retaliate and defend yourself. I find it very easy to understand their mentality and sometimes I'm amazed at our ability to vilify them despite the fact we are occupying their country and not vice versa.

This video makes me question the truth about Libya because I haven't seen one pro-NTO rally with this many people. The media seems to keep showing small crowds of NTO rebels celebrating, but nothing even close to this massive swarm of pro-Gaddafi Libyans. The intention of this rally was to send a message to the west and tell us to leave them alone, unfortunately it didn't get much air-time.

[video=youtube;jWzNhk3zv4U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWzNhk3zv4U[/video]
 
We cannot forget that we are occupying their land and stealing their resources.

Lastly, "The mentality to act such a way" is not that difficult to understand. Imagine (as a man) how you would feel if other men were invading your country, occupying your land, and stealing your resources. Imagine if one of those people killed your best friend or bombed one of your family members. Imagine if one of those people raped your mother or sister. You would want to retaliate and defend yourself. I find it very easy to understand their mentality and sometimes I'm amazed at our ability to vilify them despite the fact we are occupying their country and not vice versa.

I agree with you to a certain extent, but those governments are more than willing to take economic aid from the US aren't they?
I am of the opinion we should stop sending aid to these countries. The money could be better spent here at home.
But then the US would still be the bad guy for doing so wouldn't we?


"Maybe we ought to consider a Golden Rule in foreign policy: Don't do to other nations what we don't want happening to us. We endlessly bomb these countries and then we wonder why they get upset with us?"
Ron Paul

 
The reasons for the embassy attacks and the riots were much bigger than the anti-muslim movie. Only reason that seems as if that's the reason is because US Media is basically run through the Pentagon (mass media outlets are tied to weapons companies through their Board of Directorates). I can't think of anything that explains the current situation better than this video, I suggest that everyone checks it out

[video=youtube;fSF-WmuDncU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSF-WmuDncU&feature=player_embedded[/video]

I watched the video and thought the young man had a good handle on his knowledge of the subject - a good width & breadth of his grasp on the world situation.

I both found myself agreeing at points and disagreeing at points.

While it is true that America is not a perfect nation and is definitely not a "saint" (to personify the nation), it is equally true that the extremists can be equally criticized for their barbaric acts also. For example, to video tape yourself cutting the head off of a reporter (what did he do?) is horrible. Or how about killing 3,000 New Yorkers (civilians, not soldiers and some Muslim themselves)? What purpose did it serve except to "up-the-ante" so to speak?

So, while I thought this young man made some good points and connected the dots in some cases fairly well, I think he somewhat fails by being myopic in his vision and only seeing the virtue of the side he favors (which seems like the Arabic countries since he does not think Israel has any right to exist - an extreme position to take).

It seems to me that the biggest casualty in any conflict is the truth - that is killed off quickly as each side justifies their actions and why they are right to do what they do and, of course, the other side vilifies their opponent.

Anyway, he made some good points but his one-sided, biased commentary made his observations suspect because he did not try and give a balanced view of this very complex world-situation. Not everything is as "black & white" as we would like to make it and that is actually why some things are so difficult to resolve - because of the fog and huge grey center that exists.

I would like to see [MENTION=5090]Apone[/MENTION] and [MENTION=472]Poetic Justice[/MENTION] weigh in on this with their thoughts....
 
I watched the video and thought the young man had a good handle on his knowledge of the subject - a good width & breadth of his grasp on the world situation.

I both found myself agreeing at points and disagreeing at points.

While it is true that America is not a perfect nation and is definitely not a "saint" (to personify the nation), it is equally true that the extremists can be equally criticized for their barbaric acts also. For example, to video tape yourself cutting the head off of a reporter (what did he do?) is horrible. Or how about killing 3,000 New Yorkers (civilians, not soldiers and some Muslim themselves)? What purpose did it serve except to "up-the-ante" so to speak?

So, while I thought this young man made some good points and connected the dots in some cases fairly well, I think he somewhat fails by being myopic in his vision and only seeing the virtue of the side he favors (which seems like the Arabic countries since he does not think Israel has any right to exist - an extreme position to take).

It seems to me that the biggest casualty in any conflict is the truth - that is killed off quickly as each side justifies their actions and why they are right to do what they do and, of course, the other side vilifies their opponent.

Anyway, he made some good points but his one-sided, biased commentary made his observations suspect because he did not try and give a balanced view of this very complex world-situation. Not everything is as "black & white" as we would like to make it and that is actually why some things are so difficult to resolve - because of the fog and huge grey center that exists.

I would like to see [MENTION=5090]Apone[/MENTION] and [MENTION=472]Poetic Justice[/MENTION] weigh in on this with their thoughts....

Great points, and I totally agree. America isn't a perfect nation, and there are plenty of other nations that would ruthlessly pillage and destroy others if not for our presence, and i'm sure our country deals with problems of such magnitude that they would petrify Americans if ever disclosed. Another thing is that the world is wild and unpredictable, and sometimes you can't play by the rules when countenancing evil. But this is something essential that needs to be acknowledged.

Muslims didn't do 911.

9/11 was a false flag operation executed by the neoconservative warmongers/profiteers in the US (Cheney, Rumsfeld etc) and the very radically conservative, dual US-Israeli citizen Zionists (Paul Wolfowitz, Lewis Libby etc). Paul Wolfowitz (Secretary of Defense under Bush) and Lewis Libby (Cheney's Chief of Staff) and a few dozen others were part of a think tank called "Project for a New American Century" and were writing policy papers about overthrowing Saddam, invading Afghanistan, and expanding the US military empire in the 90's. In '98, Libby, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and others wrote a letter to Clinton urging him to "turn [his] Administration's attention to implementing a strategy for removing Saddam's regime from power" because "our ability to ensure that Saddam Hussein is not producing weapons of mass destruction, has substantially diminished." And in another paper titled "Rebuilding America's Defenses", written mostly by Libby in September 2000, discusses the importance of expanding the American military empire and increasing military spending (20% of the Pentagon's budget went towards defense spending under Reagan, but only 8% under Clinton) and he says, and i QUOTE, the process of [revamping defense spending], even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor." Libby was also sentenced to jail for 30 months for leaking the identity of an undercover CIA agent who was in the process of finding out who was actually behind the manipulation of intelligence that justified us going into Iraq. And on top of that, he wrote the speech that Colin Powell gave in 2003, where he lied to the UN about why we "need" to go to Iraq.

This sums it up pretty well though:

" When some people hear the word "conspiracy" they start thinking of a tinfoil hat crowd and invoke images of space aliens, paranoia, or a variety of cults and nonsense. Well there are a lot of wacky conspiracies about many things but that does not mean that conspiracies don't or can't happen. For example, the Iran Contra Affair was a massive government conspiracy hidden from the press and public for years. It involved billions of dollars and multiple countries. It has since been admitted to but many of the people involved did not get into trouble. They were given presidential pardons either by Bush Sr. or Bill Clinton. Most of them still have jobs and are working in the government right now! [as of April 20th, 2006] That is a fact. The CIA and Mossad have gotten away with countless covert operations and false flags. There are too many to name. So for those who think a covert operation or conspiracy can't happen, you need to open a history book, or at the very least start doing some online research. To just reject conspiracies as a whole just because there are some kooks who think the moon landing was fake or Elvis or Tu Pac are still alive etc is not a reason to just reject the concept all together. I have had people tell me conspiracies never work and that they can't be done because someone always snitches. Well that argument just does not float in reality.

The Neocons made 9/11 happen with the assistance of a foreign government, the same government where PNAC's papers were first written, and the same foreign nation who we have caught spies from who have been stealing secrets from the US about Iran, and who made up the shadow government of the Office of Special Plans which is who cherry picked and fabricated the lies told about Iraq in order to start that war. The Wars in the Middle East were for separate reasons, Afghanistan was about a few pipelines as noted but more so about controlling large quantities of un-tapped uranium (a reason for both the Russian and US invasions) and secondly for controlling opium as the CIA uses drug money to fund it's off the book black operations such as the now known massive secret prison systems, (torture camps and human medical/scientific testing). Location-wise Afghanistan is coupled with other color coded revolutions to circle China and Russia with US bases and puppets. The main goal however, which the PNAC think tank states, is to keep the eye on the pie: Iran, which Afghanistan and Iraq both boarder. The invasion of Iraq was to solve Israel's oil crisis and stop the threat of a secular Middle East which would become a true economic player and was a threat to the aggressive state of Israel.

911 was the Mossad. But that is not an Israeli intelligence agency per say it is a terrorist agency for the military industrial complex which feeds off of the hatred of the bigots and useful idiots concentrated in Israel. The US and Israel are not really different countries in a way. The US and Israeli agencies and their Neocon governments work for their own interests and those interests are guided by a racist, political ideology mixed up with a fascist version of a religion and Straussian philosophy. There is a total disconnect between the people of America (the sane ones) and the government. US foreign policy works for Likud Israeli interests first second and third. This is because the Zionists and MIC have overlapping financial interests. But most of all the press is Zionist. There is no war greater right now than the information war. Nothing would fix things faster than taking back the media or totally discrediting the corrupt lying fear mongering war cheerleaders we have now.

What has been hidden from you and the dots which have not been connected in any 911 films is the Israeli connection. 911 has been hit with heavy disinformation. This tactic worked well for Area 51 a secretive base that was wasting trillions of dollars. Because of disinformation and a lot of idiots, if anyone said a thing about area 51 it was unfairly linked to everything from space creatures to crop circles.

911 was an inside job which was part of a larger plan for perpetual war, hatched in Israel. Understand that Israel is not Jewish people OK please understand this. Israel is a violent nation that engages in false flag operations routinely and serves the interests of the MIC not any particular ethnicity. For a long time during the Cold War, Israel was the medium the MIC used to bully the Middle East indirectly and increase arms sales across the board. 911 and the recent wars in the Middle East were carefully planned attacks carried out by a faction of Zionist Neocons and the Israeli Mossad. The policy papers that acted as propaganda for the war were written by Dual Citizens with Israel. The equity firms profiting from the Iraq War like Carlyle and Trireme and the law firms processing contracts like Feith and Zell, the Anthrax attack, and the anthrax attack speech, the PNAC documents, the DPG the lies from journalists about Iraq's WMD are all connected back to the same Zionist cabal in the DOD and office of [Dick Cheney]. Just think back to the propaganda about Iraq before the war and then go read what PNAC was writing in the 90s."

The stuff above was written by the same guy in the video and is loaded with facts, Patrick Williams i'm going to shoot you a PM and link you to the source because there's a lot more to it (but it's a long read so there's no rush). I don't want to link to other forums from this one so anyone who wants to read the rest of what was in the quotation marks above PM me. And this stuff isn't "anti-Jew" it's heavily supported with facts and evidence.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tfg345i4u5lw
Watch as the idiots act like idiots. No, I did not point my finger.

War is a necessary evil. There are parts of Islam at war with everyone, including other factions of Islam. Some of them will always be wild, as it was written. They only understand things we shun.
Saying what was said regarding 9-11 and who caused it is the most absurd thing I have heard in a long time. I would be ashamed. However, I am not surprised to see someone flip in from the other side with their remarks as such.
 
Last edited:
[MENTION=6042]Faltizan[/MENTION]

You do realize that these people you're referring to are regular human beings and not supervillans and supergeniuses from fiction, right?
 
[MENTION=6042]Faltizan[/MENTION]

You do realize that these people you're referring to are regular human beings and not supervillans and supergeniuses from fiction, right?

Touché. I brought up those names in particular because I guessed some people would recognize them during the years Bush was in office (it wasn't just only them) but lol that's a good point I guess what I wrote above may look somewhat absurd and sensationalized. You can ignore what I said because perhaps I didn't phrase it too well but everything I've quoted is solid.

just me said:
Saying what was said regarding 9-11 and who caused it is the most absurd thing I have heard in a long time. I would be ashamed. However, I am not surprised to see someone flip in from the other side with their remarks as such.

"Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune." -Noam Chomsky
 
Touché. I brought up those names in particular because I guessed some people would recognize them during the years Bush was in office (it wasn't just only them) but lol that's a good point I guess what I wrote above may look somewhat absurd and sensationalized. You can ignore what I said because perhaps I didn't phrase it too well but everything I've quoted is solid.

Just to be clear, I never believe any story to be exactly as presented. I'm sure there is likely to be much more missing to the story than what was presented, but I do disagree with the story you present for reasons that I believe a humanistic perspective would challenge.

Namely, the motivations don't seem to make sense. The political/economic reason does not seem to add up in my mind. Deliberately sacrificing American citizens in order to better protect American interests is a contradiction. You stand to lose more than gain and those gains would be merely material while that being sacrificed is moral. What would be the point then? It seems absurd. The idiom that 'loose lips sink ships' makes it seem unlikely to not have been revealed plus the variables involved, logistics, contingencies, a lack of human error or negligence makes it seem fantastical.

But this is all besides the point of the original topic, so if you want to discuss this issue further I think it'd be better to make a new thread to continue doing so.
Again, I'm sure there is more to the story, but logically figuring it out is difficult enough that it makes deliberately planning and executing such a plot seem a bit far-fetched.
 
The reasons for the embassy attacks and the riots were much bigger than the anti-muslim movie. Only reason that seems as if that's the reason is because US Media is basically run through the Pentagon (mass media outlets are tied to weapons companies through their Board of Directorates). I can't think of anything that explains the current situation better than this video, I suggest that everyone checks it out

[video=youtube;fSF-WmuDncU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSF-WmuDncU&feature=player_embedded[/video]

The video seems like pure speculation to me. I agree with everything except that this had nothing to do with a movie, and going off on tangents about the sins of America doesn't exactly build a compelling case against religious extremism as the primary motivation here. It does however make it seem pretty likely that this wasn't just about a movie… and it's not like it isn't in America's best interest to keep Americans thinking that these people are religious nutjobs like so many Americans are religious nutjobs… but again, motive doesn't actually prove anything, which is the problem. I suppose if we were hearing from the people who were responsible, we might know more about it…

It's probably likely that a lot of people found themselves angry for different reasons and came together to express that anger-- much like OWS. I don't think that rioting and destruction always has a clear, logical motivation… sometimes it's just because a lot of different people are pissed off about things beyond their control.
 
I see a power grab at the root of this, brought about by those who seek weak people in weak times to plunder their minds and use their bodies. The timing is part of Al Qaeda's profile, as are the goals too few people can see.
 
They are obliged by the rules of their religion to fight anyone who disrespects their prophet. Plus, they apparently are rewarded in heaven for doing so

It is clear that a large number of them blame all westerners for the actions of any westerner. This isn't limited to muslims. Many people from probably every culture think this way btw so it's not just a muslim thing

Finding and killing the people who actually made the film must have seemed a bit like hard work so they lashed out at the nearest white folks

Also, there are probaly extremists or people who relate to the extremist point of view in every town with a reasonably large muslim population. These people probably encourage the others to join the fight. They are looking for any excuse
 
Heh. Just watched the video. I agree with pretty much everything thing he said. If the american government wasn't such a narcissistic bitch they probably wouldn't have reacted so strongly to the movie about their prophet

I wouldn't be surprised if some poeple in al'quada are actively searching the internet, looking for things like the movie to help anger people into joining their fight

The reason the fight even exists is because of what he said in the video on this thread