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[ENTP] Help me with INFJ relationships

Discussion in 'Relationships and Sociology' started by Lavarule, Dec 4, 2017.

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  1. Lavarule

    Lavarule Newbie

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    Recently I've discovered that most of the women I've ever been seriously attracted to were INFJs. So I have some questions about a current situation I would like to discuss.

    The background, this woman is part of my social circle. Last year we got pretty close, thought maybe she wanted to be more than friends. Then she got embarrassed, withdrew and door slammed me. A few months later she let me back into her life, but every time I've seen her since it's been intense with lots of mixed signals.

    So, here are a few thoughts to comment on:

    Eye-Contact/Deathstare - She makes crazy eye contact with me, looks like she wants to eat me. I watched a youtube that this isn't flirtatious just something that INFJs do. I hold it because I'm an ENTP and I know that it's just a game. I LOVE great eye-contact, so sexy. Does it mean anything, I've never seen her do it to anyone else.

    Touch - She's never touched me, not in a flirty way. We've only hugged twice ever (one was an awkward side hug and the other was a very emotional time for both of us, and I had to initiate it), which is really odd from my other female friends who always want to hug. She hugs other people, but never me. In fact, the last time we were together, at one point she moved away quickly when I got too close (although she later sat close to me).

    Rejection - At one point I tried to make a move. This was while she wasn't talking to me (which in retrospect, was a poor choice) and she reacted poorly. I've read that INFJs are typically kind with their rejections, but she wasn't.

    Comfort - By nature, I'm very flirty and friendly with everyone. I wonder if this scares off the INFJs in my life. If they think that I'm just being flirty and not really interested. How can I keep things fun, but still build some comfort and connection with them?

    In general, I've noticed this a couple times, when an INFJ gets a little flirty they will then back off and not want to talk to me. They don't give much opportunity for me to respond before they get scared. Would love suggestions for responding to INFJ flirting without frightening them.
     
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  2. Pin

    Pin Commander-in Chief / Ren's Counterpart

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    Bluntly ask her if she likes you, if she doesn't give you a "yes," move on.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #2 Pin, Dec 7, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  3. flufiang

    flufiang Community Member

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    Personally, I feel that you should start distancing yourself and look elsewhere, this hot and cold thing can carry on for years with you looking back saying ‘why did I waste so much time!’, I firmly believe that if someone wants to be with another so much, it would be a mutual increase in actions indicating exactly that.... by no means am I saying she’s a terrible person, I’m just saying you should be using your efforts on someone who’s as invested as you in building and growing the connection. DO NOT SETTLE for less than you would give
     
  4. OP
    Lavarule

    Lavarule Newbie

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    Normally great advice. A few things.

    First off, in this situation, I'm as guilty of the hot/cold thing as she is. Something I'm trying to change.

    Second, I have moved on. Completely distanced myself from this woman for about 6 months, but she's popped back up into my life recently.

    Finally - this isn't an isolated case. Had another INFJ girl doorslam me twice in the last year, both times my fault, and another who has been doing the hot/cold thing recently too.

    The common factor is all my dysfunctional relationships is me, I just want to better understand what's going on.
     
  5. halfamazing

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    I'm going to be thinking out loud, so take what I say in pieces.. In reality, you are here because you want to know about your own self. So, let's begin...

    First, the fact that you have met so many ASSUMED "INFJ" women is a bit odd in my opinion. With so many issues you have been having with them, I don't see how any of them could possibly be sure of their own identities. Not to mention, there are way too many INFP mistypes that it isn't funny... Hopefully, you aren't just pulling INFJ out of a bag simply because they are demonstrating reserved/awkward behavior.

    2ndly, INFJs aren't MBTI test-subjects. Again, not to offend you, but everyone is different. Therefore, I would try to stay away from all of your preconceived INFJ character notions. I am an INFJ and as soon as you start to understand me, and I know that you are deliberately trying to figure me out, I will deliberately throw you for a loop- unless I am really comfortable with you.

    3rd, while keeping away from MBTI, I would start trying to figure out why you are so adamant on being attracted to and preying on disturbed individuals. And now, that have your attention....

    "I've noticed this a couple times, when an INFJ gets a little flirty they will then back off and not want to talk to me. They don't give much opportunity for me to respond before they get scared"

    I am curious about you now- AS YOU ARE YOURSELF.. I want to know why are you so interested in these types of women- especially with your personally type? What does it say about who you are- being drawn to women who frequently door slam, are wishy washy, have no fortitude, and can't face their fears?

    Think back in your past and let's start there. At the end of the day, you know well and good that these aren't the women for you. The problem is, you are dealing with your own insecurities that you haven't really found a way to deal with those on YOUR own level.
     
  6. OP
    Lavarule

    Lavarule Newbie

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    Excellent points.

    I know two that I believe are INFJ - one told me that's what she tested, and she's definitely not an INFP. The other I'm assuming, but I know her pretty well, and I'm pretty sure. I do have another friend that claims she's an INFJ, but she's likely a mistyped INFP and while we are friends, we are like oil and water. She and I can't seem to see eye to eye on a lot of things. Another person I know is more what you describe, she's an introvert and awkward, but I don't know her well enough to guess. And there is one final woman who, at the time, I didn't even consider the personality type, but I was strongly attracted to her wit and passion in spite of some of the issues you stated below. That crashed and burned badly, and it wasn't until I matched some of her behavior with some of the INFJ characteristics that I thought this might apply.

    This is more trying to understand and relate to people that exhibit some of these behaviors than trying to put anyone in a box.

    I completely recognize this. I always try to figure people out - it's what I do. I'm not trying to seek out a certain type. My goal here is to try and apply understanding to my existing relationships and make myself better.

    Preying. Wow, that's a bit harsh, but I think I understand where you are coming from. I hope it doesn't seem like that. I don't want to prey on anyone. I'm not trying to be malicious or even manipulative. These are people that I have great interaction with, but I seem to scare them away or offend them at some point.

    Another great point, and something I've thought about a lot. Am I trying to "fix" something I perceive as wrong? I sincerely hope not. I want to stay far away from this kind of toxicity.

    Maybe it's the thrill of the old stereotype of finding something more. The librarian with the bun and glasses that let's her hair down and shows the real person underneath.

    I can't really explain, but I can tell you that I don't like the awkwardness, the wishy washy, the not facing fears. Attraction can be hard to define, all I know is that I'm drawn to a person who is witty, smart and seems to get me. It's that undefinable chemistry. Sweet, nice and predictable just doesn't work for me. Maybe because I'm broken.

    Ah, my past. Now that's funny. To be perfectly honest I used to think I'd never find anyone. Stopped looking for a long time. My insecurities certainly played a role in that, but I found that I could never quite get in sync with anyone.

    I have a tendency to push people away myself. I am recognizing this and working on being more self-aware so I don't do this. Deal with my insecurity and not let it dictate my behavior.

    To say that "these aren't the women for you" puts people back into that MBTI box and that isn't right.

    Try to see my question not so much as how do I find an INFJ female as it is how can I be a better person IF I meet someone like this. The push/pull - hot/cold - mixed signals certainly generates interest, I think that's pretty much universal. I'm just trying to find the difference between someone who is playing games and someone who is truly interested and just dealing with some apprehension.

    All I know is that I have an undeniable attraction to some women like this at a very fundamental level. I have NO idea if this would make for any kind of long-term partnership. It might be something that burns off once we get past the anxiety, but I would like to find out.
     
  7. flufiang

    flufiang Community Member

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    Shew sorry, I’m a little late to the conversation here....

    Honestly, my dating history is pretty much a broken mess, so I’m pretty much one of the dysfunctional people and I’m going to be honest, if I had to be in this hot and cold situation.... I’d begin to question the security and long term potential of this person, times a wasting and I want to know if someone is serious about getting to know me, if he’s not hot all the time and he fluctuates between the two, even if I like him, I’m going to say nah ah, high risk, I have no idea where I stand with this guy, I’m not risking my heart on this one and then subsequently distance myself..... the irony is that I display the exact same patterns because I try to keep up with the hot/cold types... I personally, as a woman, feel I struggle with two things, firstly finding a man I’m genuinely interested in, and secondly when I find him, seeing that he actually consistently shows interest in me.... if there is not at least one person out of the two that clearly shows intent and is consistent with it, you’ll be doing this dance with each other for a very long time, I think at the end of the day it’s going to boil down to two things (theoretically, this could be horribly inaccurate), either the distance isn’t closing because there is no security for either of you at this point and youre keeping the walls up accordingly, someone’s got to risk it and be willing to put in the time and dedication to show consistency of interest despite a negative outcome.... or the interest levels are not aligning, one could be more interested than the other....
     
  8. halfamazing

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    I would like to say that I appreciate your dedication to task and really taking the time to answer honestly and thoroughly- it really makes it easier for me to put things into perspective. As for the "preying" comment, again, it is me thinking out loud and playing with words; however, I can see how it could have come across as being harsh- fair enough. BUT, let me elaborate on that and connect it with my other findings..

    I totally get how you would want to figure people out. That being said, this comes at a cost as the underlying quest may be called into question by people looking from the outside. This is why I am more concerned about your mindset, rather than your interest in learning other people. Follow me down the rabbit hole, if you will.

    I have noticed a couple variances in patterns that don't quite mesh.

    A)- This is more trying to understand and relate to people that exhibit some of these behaviors than trying to put anyone in a box.
    +
    B) I want to stay far away from this kind of toxicity.
    +
    C)
    Maybe it's the thrill of the old stereotype of finding something more. The librarian with the bun and glasses that let's her hair down and shows the real person underneath.

    ...and this is what I was getting at with my "preying" comment. It's more on the lines of like a slight fetish that you have, but YOU DON'T want to acknowledge internally. It's like a battle you are having from within in that you know these women are NOT well suited for you, as they have their own imbalances, yet, something about you wants to fix them and find out what's underneath the hood. (You won't get this type of analysis at your average psychologist/counselor office. This is strictly some real world INFJ back talk, lol)

    As an INFJ, being future oriented, here is my question:

    Let's say that one of these types of women does bite. Let's say that she gives in to your desires to seek reason and gives you all. Now, no more wishy/washy; her trust in you has allowed for confidence; no more tug-o-wars; no more layers to peel, and no more of her slamming doors- she is all yours...

    Now, what DO YOU DO with this? The quest of fixing is no longer there. Your task is complete and the toxic environment no longer exists... The librarian has fully let her hair down and there is NOTHING more to reveal.

    Where does Lavarule go from here? Will be become satisfied, or, will you move on to another library and in pursuit of another Librarian. That, my internet buddy, is the ultimate question!
     
  9. matcherbach

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    Just remember, infj. What is your purpose?
     
  10. OP
    Lavarule

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    Again with your word choices. Fetish is a harsh term.

    Please understand that these women that have peaked my interest are pretty amazing. Careers, social lives, family, etc... Outside of their reluctance to engage in romantic relationships, they are very stable individuals.

    Trust me, if I met a smart, attractive woman that had her life together who was extroverted and not hesitant I would be all over it. They are just difficult to find. Those types are typically already in relationships. It's certainly a catch-22.




    Perhaps, but it's unlikely to find a person where you can't find SOMETHING to "FIX" if that's the goal. Heck, I have plenty of things someone could try to "FIX". As I say, I try to be very cognizant of that, and honestly, know that someone that has major problems isn't going to be a good fit because I'm going to be frustrated with the "fixing" very quickly. There are people in my lives simply looking for someone to take care of them and I'm not signing up for that.


    Well, that's always the question, isn't it? Men are notorious for having a wandering eye. For getting bored. Looking for something new and shiny. The 7-year itch and all that.

    A few things.

    I'm mature enough that I'm not going to go chase after every shiny thing that comes along.

    Also, I tend to be very committed in other areas of my life, often to a fault. The biggest reason I can be hot and cold/wishy-washy is that I know once I commit to something I'm going to be in for the long haul. I want to be sure it's what I want before I commit.

    Finally, I also recognize that this quest for a long-term relationship isn't an end unto itself - much more of a beginning. I'm looking for someone to share a life, not just short-term gratification.

    So, to answer your question, will I be satisfied. I can't promise that, at least not in this transient medium. Not in a hypothetical environment. It's a bit like Schrodinger's cat, it exists in both states until you open the box and see... That said, yes, I like to think I would be satisfied - that there is enough of the rest of the world for us to explore together that it would be enough. I would like to find out.

    One comment you did make in your previous post has got me to thinking.

    I am very adept at using social conventions to influence an interaction. I hesitate to use the word manipulation because I try very hard to use my skills for good, but really, that is what it is. Of course, I think most people with any amount of social skill do this to a degree, but I do find myself doing it more often with a woman I'm attracted to. If this woman is an INFJ, it is likely she picks up on this and resents it.

    One of the goals I have for myself is to be more authentic, more genuine and more open. This is difficult for me and will take some effort.
     
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  11. OP
    Lavarule

    Lavarule Newbie

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    Thanks for this. What really struck me about was the part about there being no security for either of us.

    I feel your same struggle. It's difficult to find a woman I'm genuinely interested in, and when I do she doesn't consistently reciprocate my interest. That's the heart of the matter.

    I'm too slow on the uptake to pick up on signals when she's interested and too slow to respond to them, which probably undermines her security and leaves us in a place where we are both too hesitant to move forward.

    It's really tough to evaluate if the interest levels are aligning or if I just imagined the interest to start with, especially when she goes cold. It's so frustrating.
     
  12. flufiang

    flufiang Community Member

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    Well, honestly, your future is in your hands.... if you want this to carry on for some time still then do that maybe you enjoy the hunt, the uncertainty..... if you want to find answers and move on from there whether it’s with her or not, do that.... all I can say is, if the interests aren’t aligned and you keep dancing around this it can take years of your time that could have gone towards a more matched and dedicated partner and only to find out that this person did not nearly have as much interest as you.... biased advice but I don’t know, if you’re anything like me and you’re tired of ‘not knowing’ anymore then it’s time to have some very honest and forward conversations... you obviously care about this, so I’m leaning towards sitting this person down in a safe and comfortable environment and having this conversation.... I also read a statement a little higher up... which rung a bell for me, I’m sorry you guys said a lot and I just woke up so I didn’t retain too much of it, but just make sure that you’re ready for this and that it isn’t the hunt of not knowing that’s keeping you interested... because if it is, and she opens up to you and tells you her interest and you start to fade, that’s going to cause some damage and trust issues in her for the next guy that comes along.... not saying that’s the case at all.... but... just saying....
     
  13. halfamazing

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    Flufiang, I am really glad you posted this. As I stated above, from someone like you looking from the outside, it does come across as a hunt. Unfortunately, (keep in mind that we are all internet family here) Lavarule is doing the old acknowledging his actions, but/while denying his intensions routine. Furthermore, the more information he reveals, the more and more I believe these women are picking up on his tendencies, giving him a second chance due to his charm, then backing off.

    Lavarule- I am going to push you a bit because at the end, it's not about getting under your skin, but actually sincerely helping you figure things out. I don't know, but something tells me that you are NOT being fully honest here. I am speaking to you as two men at the ball park, even though I know we are on the open forums. The problem that you have is that you have already revealed so much that it really isn't worth holding on to your own truths. However, I also don't want to push you too hard that you end up totally closing yourself off because you feel as if I am being too intrusive.

    Let's look at your own following revelations:

    You openly admitted that you also are into the mixed signals act;
    You revealed that (1) INFJ girl door-slammed you 2 TIMES in the last year, both times YOUR fault;
    You readily and openly admitted that the common factor in all YOUR dysfunctional relationships is YOU.
    You revealed that sweet, nice and predictable just doesn't work for you because maybe you are broken. (the reason for my "ultimate" question)
    In the very next sentence, you revealed that you have a tendency to push people away. (RIDDLE ME THIS, Lavarule)

    So, again, you are openly admitting your actions, but not quite revealing your true intensions and/or underlying issues- which has somewhat to do with your underlying fixation (I won't use the term fetish because it comes across as too harsh to you) (see what I did there?)

    Honestly, if I am a woman, ESPECIALLY an INFJ, I will smell you a mile away and not even come close to you. As a matter of fact, I am pulling your card as we speak- imagine if I were to be watching you out in the field?

    Btw, feel free to private message me if you don't feel comfortable putting everything out in the open. Nonetheless, we are here for you brother- until the very end.

    Write back....
     
  14. flufiang

    flufiang Community Member

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    :mhug:Ok you guys go on ahead and talk this out, I’ll be somewhere else on this forum :laughing:
     
  15. OP
    Lavarule

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    Haha, nah, I don't care about being pretty open in this context. This is the perfect environment for that, and I do want to figure myself out.

    I want to address the conclusions you've sorted from this:

    And I hated it both times. It was my fault because I made bad assumptions and was insecure, NOT because I wanted to create the drama. A lot happened there, and in retrospect, I would have handled that situation differently, probably stayed away from her, but it was a great learning experience.

    Sure, admitting you have a problem is the first step.

    I think we are all "broken" in some way, it's the human condition and what makes life worth living. There is a HUGE difference in being with someone who can banter, push back, and be fun and being with someone that is constant drama. I have ZERO desire for ongoing drama, but I love sarcasm and teasing and attitude.

    Yep, because at my core, I don't want to be hurt. I can take all the superficial conflict in the world from someone I trust, but letting someone into that deeper level is hard. Something I'm guessing you can understand. It is a bit of a dichotomy though, and I get that.

    Oh, and see, that last sentence is what scares me to death.

    I am not a drama queen, I don't like real conflict AT ALL. In fact, in my social circle I'm often the person who helps connect people, makes peace, gives advice. I LOVE boundaries and knowing where I stand with people. I love deep conversations and getting to know people well. I also love to flirt and tease and charm.

    Actually, I find this really fascinating that both of you INFJs have gone to the same place with this. That is probably more insightful than the actual discussion. Your primary concern is if I'm serious and if I'm going to hurt this girl.

    I was thinking about this after my last post, remembering. I want to unequivocally refute your accusations that I have a fixation or fetish on a certain type of woman. In fact, the girl that prompted this post is quite the opposite. I KNEW from day one that she was closed off emotionally and avoided her because I didn't want anything to do with it. It was months after I met her before we had any meaningful interaction because I also know that I was strongly attracted to her intelligence and beauty and if I fell I would fall hard. When we did start to interact and she started to reciprocate, but it all ended up moving toward a lot of pointless drama (which I don't want to detail).

    So, for Flufiang, in case you want to come back, here is the summary.

    TLDR;

    For this particular woman, nope, it's not about the hunt. I'm hating the hunt. Would it work long term? I want it to, but if it didn't I would end it as kindly and gently as possible because I have zero desire to hurt her.

    But, here's my quandary. When we are together it's electric, I feel the tension. I would love to sit her down and resolve this, but her walls are so high I see no path to that.

    She may be like you two and think I'm just playing games. If I can't convince two strangers on the Internet that I'm not, it's hopeless.
     
  16. flufiang

    flufiang Community Member

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    I’ve written so many responses and erased them, give me a couple of minutes
     
  17. flufiang

    flufiang Community Member

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    Actually, I think I’m going to let @halfamazing respond first, I had a personal situation similar to yours and I’m finding it difficult to not base my comments on the outcome of it, your situation is unique with two very different people
     
  18. OP
    Lavarule

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    Looking forward to hearing your story.

    And I want to thank both of you. This whole conversation has been very enlightening. After some serious contemplation, I'm cautiously optimistic. At the very least, I think I understand what's been going on now.
     
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