Hawaii and Indiana proving me right... | INFJ Forum

Hawaii and Indiana proving me right...

Discussion in 'News and Politics' started by Satya, Jan 30, 2010.

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  1. Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    Hawaii killed its civil unions bill on Friday...

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/29/AR2010012903706.html

    The Indiana Senate pushed through a ballot initiative that upon passing the House would allow voters to vote to amend the Constitution to state that Indiana does not recognize gay marriages or civil unions...

    http://www.southbendtribune.com/article/20100130/News01/1300316/-1/googleNews

    This is after New York and New Jersey both killed gay marriage bills, after Maine voters passed a referendum that banned same sex marriage in that state, and of course after California passed Prop 8 effectively banning gay marriage in that state.

    The only commendable successes that gay rights activists have had were a city law passed in Salt Lake City that would protect gays from housing and job discrimination, which several state legislators promptly explained they would overturn later this year and beating the R-71 initiative in Washington which would have overturned the domestic partnership expansion the legislature had pushed through.

    Late February we will hear from Judge Walker on his decision in the Prop 8 trial, but regardless of outcome, it will move to the Supreme Court late next year where Prop 8 will be soundly upheld by a 5 to 4 vote. However, it will only be a matter of time before the anti gay rights groups move towards attacking civil unions by ballot initiatives.

    The anti gay rights movement has incredible momentum generated by their wins in California and Maine, and the wins in New York, New Jersey, and Hawaii will just fuel it.
     
  2. Raccoon Love

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    Wow, that is indeed very bad news, it looks like people still have not come to their senses in regards of doing what is fair and equal..I guess such primitive views are still being kept, but anyways I have hope that hopefully this generation would do something about it. This is where I think Europe has evolved faster than us, not to offend anybody but socially America is still struggling with such issues as gay marriage, abortion, marijuana consumption etc..again not to offend anyone but I think this is true.
     
  3. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    Should the killings commence? Annihilate Utah and the other states will follow.
     
  4. OP
    Satya

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    Pretty much we are waiting until after November elections of this year to see how things turn out. A major win in federal court could end the momentum of the anti gay rights groups until next year, but a set back in that court could be the fuel needed to overturn another state or two. The beginning of this March will dictate the course of gay rights for the next 3 or 4 years.
     
  5. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    Now do the lotto numbers!
     
  6. OP
    Satya

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    I'm getting good at predicting this stuff. You just watch it all fall into place exactly as I have said.

    Think about it this way...California, Maine, New York, New Jersey, Hawaii, and Indiana...

    ...this is how good we have it with Obama and the Democrats in power.

    Imagine how good we will have once the Republicans retake either Congress or the Presidency?
     
    #6 Satya, Jan 31, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2010
  7. OP
    Satya

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    Since Obama and the Democrats have gained control of the government, what is the score card for gay rights?

    Decline
    -Prop 8 passed in California banning same sex marriage.
    -Prop 1 passed in Maine banning same sex marriage.
    -Legislation to legalize same sex marriage stalls in Rhode Island.
    -Rhode Island governor vetos domestic partnership rights to claim each others remains.
    -The gay marriage law in New York failed.
    -The gay marriage law in New Jersey failed.
    -The civil unions law in Hawaii failed.
    -The Supreme Court bans cameras at Prop 8 trial.
    -The Indiana Senate passed a resolution to put the question of same sex marriage and civil unions on a ballot for voters.

    Progress
    -Iowa established same sex marriage
    -New Hampshire established same sex marriage
    -Vermont established same sex marriage.
    -Referendum 71 to overturn "Everything but marriage" domestic partnership law fails in Washington State.
    -Washington DC established same sex marriage.
    -Salt Lake City established job discrimination protection for gays and lesbians.
    -Federal employee nondiscrimination signed

    In The Works

    -Federal trial challenging Prop 8
    -Repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell

    Promised, but not Delivered

    -Repeal of Defense of Marriage Act


    Given that Obama's official positoin is that he is for civil unions but opposed to same sex marriage, that might be the best one can expect from this president. DADT and the Prop 8 trial are the highlights for 2010, and given the momentum that anti gay rights activists have enjoyed since Maine, they may be the last opportunity to turn the tide. The Supreme Court will likely rule on Prop 8 in 2011, and given the 5-4 conservative split, it is likely that same sex marriage will not survive a Supreme Court ruling. Whether Obama touches DOMA in 2011 will likely be determined by how well the economy is doing and whether health care reform is passed before the mid term elections.

    Thoughts?
     
  8. sagewolf

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    The state legislators' decisions to pass/postpone (respectively) these propositions is a lot less disheartening to me than the reader comments underneath the articles. Not all of them were bad, but even allowing for the principle that people are more likely to be utter and complete jackasses on the internet than in real life, that's still a lot of bigotry and nastiness being thrown out there. From both sides. Laws don't need to change, people and attitudes do.

    I do wish people would clue into the idea that civil marriage and religious marriage are actually two different things, though, and that allowing the former does not necessarily have to mean allowing the latter.
     
  9. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    Cults are pervasive. It's not about Law and Legislators, it's about the JCatCoLDS, and the pressure they can raise, along with PR campaigns and getting real churches to support them.

    Play your own dirty tricks or you'll never win.

    Want to be a bunch of ineffectual morons crying that you don't get any respect? Fine.
    Want to be a bunch of effective people lobbying senate, PR campaigning and getting your rights? Do it properly.
     
  10. OP
    Satya

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  11. the

    the Si master race.
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    right about what?
     
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  12. Billy

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    Who cares, go to Mass or my state CT if you want to marry another man. If those states don't want it you cant force it. It should be a state decision.
     
  13. bamf

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    People's happiness should be a state decision?
     
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  14. OP
    Satya

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    I've determined that the anti gay rights movement is gaining momentum and that they are going to begin not just fighting gay marriage but other gay unions and rights across the country in the coming years. They have been pushing hard in Iowa but it looks like the issue may stay off the ballot until 2015. New Hampshire can probably keep it off the ballot at least until next year. DADT was set to be repealed this year, but Obama pushed it off until a review can be done by next year.

    Puh! Care to explain your rational for why civil rights should be a state decision? Do you think the Supreme Court decision of Loving v. Virginia which overturned 19 state bans on interracial marriage was wrong? The only reason Conservatives make that argument is because gay marriage could not pass a ballot initiative in even the most liberal state. A majority of the country still thinks that gays should be banned from being school teachers. Only a third support same sex marriage. If you were to take a poll about interracial marriage before Loving v. Virgina, you would have found about the same amount of support.

    But of course, it would make sense that you, a self proclaimed Constitutional libertarian, would buy into mob rule and believe that a minority's rights should be restricted by the tyranny of the majority in a state. Sorry I'm not biting your bait Billy. Either that statement undermines everything you have ever claimed to believe or you became a neoconservative overnight. I'm thinking you are bored and are trying to draw me into a fight with you.
     
  15. Billy

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    Yes.
     
  16. Billy

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    Jump to conclusions much? Go fucking marry a dude in CT or Mass. If a voting republic doesn't want what you are calling civil rights and (you'd have to prove marriage to be a right) then they should have the power of the vote to say as such.
     
  17. OP
    Satya

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    Until a Supreme Court decision determines it is a right and overturns state bans, right? Or have you suddenly decided that the will of the people is a ballot initiative rather than the Constitution of the United States?
     
  18. bamf

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    A voting republic has the ability to discriminate against people's ability to obtain a marriage, and the legal benefits that come from it? Legal discrimination?
     
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  19. Billy

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    the will of the people is what they vote for. You seem pretty intent on fighting.
     
  20. OP
    Satya

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    You speak about a republic and then you make an argument about a democracy. Do we or do we not live in a Constitutional Republic? Is the will of the people what they vote for or the Constitution of the United States?

    This isn't much of a fight, when you contradict yourself.
     
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