Happy Independence Day: Egypt, too. | INFJ Forum

Happy Independence Day: Egypt, too.

Discussion in 'News and Politics' started by just me, Jul 4, 2013.

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  1. just me

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    [​IMG] Comments? You too, [MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]; want your thoughts on this, too, please.
     
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  2. OP
    just me

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    Insistence of having one's own way brings out the best in some people. Never underestimate the will of many Middle Eastern countries. Never start something on a world level you do not intend to follow through with. If the ability to follow through properly does not exist, then leave things alone. Good luck, Egypt. Many Americans do not endorse their President's actions in your country in the past.
     
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    #2 just me, Jul 4, 2013
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  3. OP
    just me

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    We had brilliant men sit down together and write what would help Americans for centuries to come. The common good of the people is a serious undertaking. Wording is very important. I love my country, though I do not agree with everything. I sometimes feel my vote is a waste, though I vote. We are celebrating Independence Day today. We left somewhere whose ideals were different than ours. People came here from near and far, and the Indian was being run away from their homeland. It would have been great if things could have been worked out, but they had to be worked out in a foreign land. Our economy bubbles and bursts. Many people have lost innumerous things over those times. Some say those times are manipulated for personal gain. We are still standing with our arms open. We hope the same for you guys, Egypt.
     
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  4. Sriracha

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    Baby steps. This is a new perspective for them, they will work their way through their difficulties.
     
  5. muir

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    The bravery and perseverance of the Egyptian people is incredible

    I went to Egypt just after 911 and never experienced any hostility from anyone there

    When the corporate news reports various crimes occuring at the protests you can be pretty sure they are carried out by agents of chaos who are working to undermine the peoples revolution. They have been carrying out this 'strategy of tension' for centuries; examples include: 'La mano negra' and operation Gladio

    All the people want is a fair reward for a fair days work and to be able to live without oppression; its the same everywhere

    The muslim brotherhood can be traced back to the Freemasonic Grand Lodge of Cairo which is a pit of vipers that has been injecting poison into the world for centuries.

    Lets hope that next the people of saudi arabia can find a way to rise up and get out from underneath the corrupt house of saud and their US handlers who have filled their country with US military personel and equipment to keep it under effective occupation whilst they extract the oil that is under the feet of the saudi people

    Hopefully the US people also can resist their own el-ite that continue to impoverish them financially, spiritually, mentally and physically
     
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    just me

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    I find it interesting Egypt has the sixth largest proven oil reserves in Africa.
     
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  7. muir

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    All the regional conflict is largely about the oil
     
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  8. muir

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    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-world-without-qatar/5343097

    The sudden political withdrawal of Qatar from the international scene was followed, a week later, by the overthrow of Mohamed Morsi in Egypt. Although these two events coincided, without cause and effect, their occurrence has radically changed the future of the Arab world.
    Within two weeks, the Muslim Brotherhood, to which Washington was promising the leadership of the Arab world, have lost two of their main levers of power. Emir Hamad Al-Thani of Qatar was forced to abdicate on June 25th and with him his mentor and Prime Minister, HBJ. On July 3rd, President Mohamed Morsi was toppled by the Egyptian Army, while warrants were soon issued for the arrest of the main figures of the Egyptian movement, including the Supreme Guide of the Brotherhood, Mohammed Badie.It does not appear that, in pushing Emir Hamad towards the exit, Washington had anticipated another regime change in Egypt. The United States, which did not tolerate its political and financial shenanigans, decided to relegate Qatar to its rightful place as a micro-state. Washington did not question the assistance provided by the Emir to the Muslim Brotherhood, nor their role in Cairo, just the flamboyance of the emirate.
    The role of the Brothers
    In any case, the unexpected legal accession of the Brotherhood to power in Egypt, in June of 2012, foreshadowed the real purpose of the “Arab Spring“: to usher in a new era of colonization based on the secret deal between the Brothers, the United States and Israel. For the Brotherhood, the forced Islamization of North Africa and the Levant; for Washington, economic globalization, including massive privatization; and for Tel Aviv, the continuation of the separate Camp David peace.
    It is important to understand that, as a consequence, “The Brotherhood has become the spearhead of Arab Zionism“, in the words of Lebanese thinker Hassan Hamade. This is confirmed, in his own way, by the “spiritual adviser” of Qatar’s Al-Jazeera, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, when he preaches that if Muhammad were alive today, he would live in peace with the Israelis and he would support NATO.
    The ideology of the Brotherhood
    This stance was facilitated by the structure of the Muslim Brotherhood. Although it is coordinated internationally, the Brotherhood does not consist of a single organization, but of a multitude of distinct groups. In addition, there are different levels of membership, each with its own ideology. However, all rally around the same motto: “Allah is our goal, the Koran is our law, the Prophet our leader, Jihad our way and martyrdom our highest hope.” In addition, they all adhere to the teachings of Hassan al-Banna (1906-1949) and Said Qutb (1906-1966).
    De facto, the Brotherhood is the matrix of all the Salafist movements (i.e., trying to emulate the companions of the Prophet) and Takfirist groups (i.e., fighting against the apostates) working with the CIA. Thus Ayman al-Zawahari, current leader of al-Qaeda, emerged from their ranks. A loyal U.S. agent, he instigated Hosni Mubarak’s ascendance to power by organizing the assassination of Anwar Sadat. He has now become the spiritual leader of the Syrian Contras.
    The Brotherhood has always been a minority in all countries where it has developed, including in Egypt, where it owes its election victory at the polls solely to a boycot by two thirds of the population. It has therefore fomented, against dictatorships, all kinds of armed groups who tried to seize power by force or dissimulation. What characterizes its behavior is its creed that “The end justifies the means.” Therefore, it is difficult to distinguish within its ideological evolution, that which is authentic from that which springs from political seduction. Specifically, the Egyptian case showed that its democratic evolution was pure facade, just for the time of an election.
    Above all —although initially a movement to fight against British imperialism— it came immediately into conflict with Arab nationalism, the main opponent of imperialism in the region. Understanding the use they could make of the Brothers, the British experts in handling sects, far from eliminating them, penetrated and sustained them to fight against the nationalists. Today still, the international coordination of the Brothers is based in London.
    The “Arab Spring” (since December, 2010) is basically a revival of the old Franco-British “Arab Revolt” strategy against the Ottomans (1916-1918). Except this time, the goal was not to put pseudo-independent puppets in the place of the old Ottoman administration, but to replace worn-out allies with virgin and globalization-friendly puppets.
    Qatar’s strategic retreat
    Since the team change in Qatar, money stopped flowing freely to the Brothers, whether in Syria, Palestine, Egypt, Libya or elsewhere. The emirate is focusing on its domestic ambitions and plans to spend $ 200 billion to prepare for the World Cup in five years.
    This sudden disappearance from the international scene has left the field open to the Saudis and Emiratis, both of which rushed in to support the new Egyptian regime.
    On the other hand, the rivalry between Qatar and Saudi Arabia has led Iran to support Mohamed Morsi in Egypt while supporting Bashar al-Assad in Syria. Thus, Tehran found itself having more affinity with the Egyptian Brotherhood Project “to Islamize society” than with that of the Nasserists to liberate Palestine from colonial occupation.
    Ultimately, the withdrawal of Qatar implies a rebalancing of forces in the Anglo-American world. Subsequently, the control commissions of the secret services of the United States Congress and of the British House of Commons opposed the sending of arms to the “rebels” in Syria.
    The fall of the Muslim Brotherhood is not only a failure of the Brotherhood, but also a failure of those in London and Washington who thought they could reshape North Africa and the Middle East, and, failing that, prefer to allow chaos to reign rather than lose control.
     
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  9. muir

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    US is trying to get control of Egypt again:

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/massac...lls-scores-wounds-thousands-of-people/5344093

    Deadly clashes have erupted across Egypt, as tens of thousands protested in dozens of marches supporting either deposed Islamist President Mohamed Mursi or the military junta that ousted him in a July 3 coup.
    Security forces attacked pro-Mursi rallies early this morning, firing live ammunition, rubber bullets and tear gas. The move came after Interior Minister Mohamed Ibrahim—installed by the army—vowed that the coup regime would disperse the protests organized by Mursi’s Muslim Brotherhood (MB) “soon and in a legal manner.”
    Al Jazeera reported today that 120 people had been killed and some 4,500 injured when the army attacked a round-the-clock pro-Mursi vigil at Cairo’s Rabaa al-Adawia Mosque. Seventeen were killed and over 500 wounded in clashes with police near the October 6 Bridge in Cairo’s Nasr City, the site of another of the largest ongoing pro-Mursi protests.
    At least seven people were killed and 80 or more wounded when pro-army and pro-Mursi demonstrators clashed in Alexandria. MB officials claimed the security forces opened fire with birdshot on pro-Mursi demonstrators in Alexandria. Among the dead was a 14-year-old boy who was stabbed to death.
    Egyptian health officials reported that most of the dead or wounded had suffered shots to the head or torso, suggesting that security forces attacking the protests are shooting to kill.
    Hundreds of others were wounded in clashes in the port city of Damietta, the Shubra neighborhood of Cairo and other areas across Egypt.
    There are widespread fears of an even bloodier crackdown to come, after the army issued the MB an ultimatum to join negotiations with the new military junta by today. On Thursday, July 3 coup leader General Abdel-Fattah al-Sisi told the MB that the next 48 hours were a “final chance” to “join the nation in preparation to launch the future.”
    The army had also posted a statement on its Facebook page, threatening to fire on anyone it deemed violent. It said that it would not “turn its guns against the people, but it will turn them against black violence and terrorism which has no religion or nation.” Hundreds of protesters, mostly MB supporters, have been killed at demonstrations since the coup.
    Tanks and armored personnel carriers ringed Cairo’s Tahrir Square Friday. Top police and security officials appeared on the square during the day, to chants of “The army, the police, and people are one hand.” At night, hundreds of thousands of people massed on Tahrir Square and surrounding streets, supporting Mursi’s overthrow.
    There were large pro-Mursi rallies in the Sinai and in Matrouh. It appears that pro-Mursi rallies are still heavily outnumbered by anti-Mursi protests.
    Tensions were further heightened by the announcement that the army was bringing charges against Mursi, whom the army has imprisoned in an undisclosed location since the July 3 coup. The charges stem from a prison escape by Mursi and other MB detainees during the 2011 uprising that toppled Hosni Mubarak. Mursi had said in a TV interview that “unknown men” freed him and other MB members from Wadi Natroun prison.
    The Egyptian courts, a bastion of support for Mubarak, allege that Mursi conspired with the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas to attack Egyptian police stations and jails. This allegedly involved “setting fire to one prison and enabling inmates to flee, including himself, as well as premeditated killing of officers, soldiers, and prisoners.”
    MB spokesman Gehad El-Haddad dismissed the charges, saying that with them the Mubarak regime was “signaling ‘we’re back in full force.’”
    The increasingly pro-authoritarian tone of the anti-Mursi protests reflects the crisis of leadership in the working class, and the counterrevolutionary role of the bourgeois and middle-class forces that make up Egypt’s liberal and pseudo-left parties.
    Terrified by the mass strikes and working-class mobilizations of the spring and after the June 30 appeal for protests, fearing a revolution against the entire political establishment, they shifted sharply to the right. Tamarod—a coalition involving liberal forces such as the National Salvation Front (NSF), the Free Egyptians party, and the April 6 Youth Movement, and supported by the pseudo-left Revolutionary Socialists (RS)—backed the military coup. This paved the way for the formation of a military junta to try to wind down mass opposition.
    While the initial target of army repression is the MB, ultimately the army and its supporters will turn on opposition in the working class to their reactionary social agenda—which includes deep cuts in critical subsidies for food and energy, upon which Egyptian workers depend.
    Tamarod and its allies hailed the army’s call for protests and have sought to shift the political atmosphere in Egypt as far to the right as possible. Tamarod and the NSF issued statements endorsing al-Sisi’s call for pro-army protests and giving the army its full backing in a “war on terrorism.”
    The April 6 Youth Movement did not endorse the army’s call for protests, but signaled its support for military repression. It issued a statement saying that the armed forces “do not need popular delegation to perform its patriotic duties of preserving security and resisting violence.”
    In a cynical maneuver, the pseudo-left Revolutionary Socialists (RS), which hailed the coup as a “second revolution,” declined to endorse the army protests. They wrote, “Whatever crimes the Brotherhood has committed against the people and against the Copts in defense of its power in the name of religion, we do not give army chief El-Sisi our authority. We will not go into the streets on Friday offering a blank check to commit massacres.”
    This statement reflects the RS’ concerns that their support for the coup leaves them politically exposed, not their opposition to massacres by the military. (See also: Egypt’s Revolutionary Socialists seek to cover up support for military coup ) In fact, leading RS members openly said yesterday that they would support a military intervention.
    On her Twitter feed, RS member Gigi Ibrahim, the partner of RS blogger Hossam el-Hamalawy, angrily demanded that the army intervene in the protests. “Five were killed in Alex[andria] and [neither] the army nor the police intervened, while the squares around Egypt are calling for Sisi’s mandate to end violence,” she wrote. “Why are the army and police that everyone is cheering now not stopping or intervening in the bloodshed?”
    More fundamentally, the RS’ position reflects that organization’s long-standing alignment with US foreign policy. Like Washington, they are signaling their essential support for the coup, while trying to prevent the outbreak of too much bloodshed between the army and the MB. Such bloodshed would make it difficult for Washington to effect a reconciliation between the military and the MB and stabilize the Egyptian state, one of its key props in the Middle East.
    Anonymous US diplomatic officials told Al Ahram, “the main US aim is for the Brotherhood to be reintegrated into the political life of Egypt and that there must be no persecution of the group.”
    Yesterday, US Secretary of State John Kerry reportedly spoke at length with Egyptian Foreign Minister Nabil Fahmi, endorsing the coup. While stating that Washington wanted Egypt to resume a “democratic path,” Kerry assured Fahmi that any delay in US economic or military aid to the Egyptian regime due to the coup would be “temporary.”
    The administration has made clear that it will not declare the military’s overthrow of Mursi a coup, which would require by law a cutoff of aid. And, while Washington has temporarily held up the shipment of four new F-16 fighter jets to Cairo, the Pentagon is going ahead as planned with joint exercises with the Egyptian military.
     
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  10. muir

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    http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2013/07/26/egypts-military-junta-playing-with-fire/


    [h=1]The 35-member interim government is packed with holdovers from the Mubarak era. Many of them are closely associated with the Egyptian military and police. The central figure in the so-called civilian administration is General Al Sisi, who also appointed himself as deputy prime minister — in addition to his portfolio of defense minister and head of the SCAF.[/h]
    Egypt’s military strongman General Al Sisi is playing with fire that may engulf the North African country with even more internecine bloodshed. This week on state TV, Al Sisi called for massive street protests to face down “terrorists” who, he said, were destabilizing Egypt’s national security.
    He also claimed that such popular show of strength would give the Egyptian army “a mandate” to use violence to restore order.
    Such inflammatory talk by the supposed head of national security is tantamount to pushing Egypt – the Arab region’s most populous country – into a civil war.
    The reprehensible thing about this is that General Abdel Fattah Al Sisi is indulging in reckless demagoguery to incite violence in order to cover up the fact that it is he who violated the law and constitution of his country.
    As head of the Egyptian military, Al Sisi is supposed to be duty-bound to protect the nation from harm. But what he appears to be doing is plunging the nation into chaos and conflict by way of concealing his own selfish ambitions.
    On 3 July, it was Defense Minister Al Sisi who dismissed then President Mohamed Morsi. Nearly three weeks on, no one has seen or heard from the deposed Muslim Brotherhood president. Even his family is still unaware of Morsi’s whereabouts and has accused the military of “kidnap”.
    Meanwhile, Al Sisi, who also heads the Supreme Council of Military Forces (SCAF), appointed a senior judge as the interim-president, and oversaw the formation of an unelected government. This civilian administration is only a front for Egypt’s military deep state, which stems from the US-backed Hosni Mubarak dictatorship (1981-2011).
    The 35-member interim government is packed with holdovers from the Mubarak era. Many of them are closely associated with the Egyptian military and police. The central figure in the so-called civilian administration is General Al Sisi, who also appointed himself as deputy prime minister – in addition to his portfolio of defense minister and head of the SCAF.
    Fawning visits to Cairo last week by US senior diplomat William Burns and the European Union’s Foreign Policy Chief, Catherine Ashton, demonstrate that Washington and its Western allies are endorsing the military coup against Egypt’s nascent democracy.
    Burns said somewhat cryptically that this was “a second chance” for Egyptians. One wonders if what he really meant was a second chance for Egyptians to conform to the US-backed military deep state that Washington has bankrolled with $1.5 billion every year for the past three decades.
    In recent days, the US has said that it is delaying the delivery of F-16 fighter jets to Egypt. This was prompted by the incendiary call for street protests by General Al Sisi. But Washington is only reacting for public relations purposes to fend off criticism that it is pandering to the military junta.
    Notably, an unnamed senior Pentagon official told the Washington Post: “This is not a way of punishing them (Egypt’s military). It gives us more time to consult with Congress, walk them through our strategy and explain our views to them.” Besides, too, US Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel reportedly consulted with Al Sisi hours before the announcement that the F-16s would be delayed.
    Understandably, millions of Egyptians who voted for Morsi’s presidential bid in June 2012 feel that their long-fought-for democratic rights have been trampled on by the same military machine that they rose up against in January 2011 as part of the Arab Spring.
    The ouster of Mubarak on 11 February 2011 was supposed to herald a new democratic beginning for Egypt. But evidently, the Mubarak-era military deep state is back in the driving seat – albeit with the trappings of a civilian administration.
    When Al Sisi and his other US-trained Egyptian Generals deposed Morsi, they did so under the cynical guise of “obeying the popular will” and “saving the nation” from possible violence between anti and pro-Morsi crowds. There is evidence that Mubarak-era businessmen and media magnates gave the anti-Morsi demonstrations lionized coverage, thereby amplifying an atmosphere of national tensions and insecurity.
    While Morsi certainly alienated wide sections of the population during his one-year presidency, it is nevertheless legally questionable that he should have been dismissed from office, put under secret arrest without charge, and that the constitution should be suspended and the Parliament dissolved. If that sounds like a military coup that’s because it is, even though Western politicians and media have banished the word from public discourse.
    The way to make that unlawful intervention appear legitimate was to claim the mantle of acting on behalf of the people to maintain national security. However, what has transpired is that the Egyptian military and remnants from the Mubarak-era judiciary have taken the reins of political power out of the hands of the electorate. The formation of the interim government without any popular mandate earlier this month makes that clear.
    The targeting of hundreds of Muslim Brotherhood members and other Morsi supporters with arrest, detention and prosecution for alleged Mubarak-era crimes also makes it apparent that the military-led Egyptian deep state is running a vendetta to wipe out political opponents, not acting as a caretaker for a transition to civilian politics.
    Repression has also involved lethal violence by the state forces and apparently civilian-clothed agents. Since Morsi’s overthrow, as many as 200 people have been killed in street clashes and thousands more injured. Most of the victims have been Morsi supporters, with the military responsible for most of the bloodshed. The single-biggest deadly incident was on 8 July when the military opened fire on Muslim Brotherhood protesters outside the Republican Guard headquarters in Cairo, killing as many as 80 and wounding over 400.
    Last week on national state TV, the interim President Adli Mansour used provocative language when he said: “We will fight the battle for security until the end.” He also warned darkly against those who “hide behind false slogans and who are driving the country to the abyss”.
    What “false slogans” might the military-appointed interim president be referring to? Perhaps they include “We don’t support military coup” or “Reinstate Morsi”.
    This sinister formula of polarizing society and demonizing political opponents was taken to new heights this week. Again, speaking on national state TV and wearing sunglasses, General Al Sisi said: “Egyptians must take to the streets on Friday to give me the mandate to face down violence and terrorism… Friday is the day we, the army, the people and the police, will unite.”
    Asking people for a mandate to face down violence and terrorism sounds like preparing a green light for even more massacres committed by the Egyptian army. And then, in the aftermath of bloodshed, the military strongman will be able to claim that he was only acting “on behalf of the people” to “defend the nation”.
    This is the politics of fascism, conducted with the imprimatur of Western so-called democratic governments.
    Source : Press TV
     
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  11. OP
    just me

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    It is not very difficult to see how so many people view these things so differently.
     
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  12. ThisIsWhoIAm

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    god [MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION] you really do hurt my eyes sometimes...
     
  13. muir

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    You love it....you especially love it when i criticise Israel....lol
     
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    How long will it take for Russian arms to become the mainstay of Egypt's military? What does that say about American ingenuity?
     
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    I knew it was going to hit the fan when Ramaddan was over. Is there a way to impose a twelve month Ramaddan? If children are killed, it is a very sad thing; but, would you place your children in harm's way? I would not.
     
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  17. Kanamori

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    And they've gotten even worse. I didn't think this would happen, that they had more restraint than this. I only hope they can see it doesn't have to be this way, that they don't have to hate each other, before more people are killed. The crackdown seems to be ideological though.
     
  18. Gaze

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    Yeah, it's tough to see so many lives lost like this. Since the issue is not a simple one, I can only hope things stabilize over the next few days.
     
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  19. muir

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    Turkish PM Erdogan is saying that Israel is behind the military coup

    Its looking also as if Mubarak is going to be released from prison now

    He was a zionist puppet who dominated the egyptian people on behalf of the US and Israel. In return they made him hugely wealthy.

    I am no fan of the muslim brotherhood but i'm no fan of the old regime either

    Its looking like the egytian people are going to be brutalised into line one way or another by the zionists
     
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  20. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    I like a country that can have it's first democratic election and military take overs within a years time
     
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