Greater influence of the world today- Jesus or Mohammed?
- Thread starter Kmal
- Start date
Jesus (or at least the sort of Christianity that was practiced in early Medieval Arabia) had considerably influence on Mohammad, enough that I would consider everyone influenced by Mohammad to be have experienced a significant indirect influence by Jesus. Ergo, Jesus clearly wins.
Tin Man
"a respectable amount of screaming"
I vote cookie monster.
And on the forth day, he did eat the cookies and it was good. And on the fifth day he went "num num num", and it was good.
And on the forth day, he did eat the cookies and it was good. And on the fifth day he went "num num num", and it was good.
And Buddha beats both of them, having a similar influence over Jesus and predating him by about 500 years.
Today? Probably Muhammed. Fastest growing religion isn't it, Islam?
And only a small proportion of Christianity has any feeling it in - praising with lips not hearts. A lot of jibber jabber.
And only a small proportion of Christianity has any feeling it in - praising with lips not hearts. A lot of jibber jabber.
Oh, but then again...nonviolent means of protest are much more popular amongst the layfolk these days.
Passive resistance, right? I mean, look at the Occupy movements etc.
The use of violence to prove a noble point doesn't seem to gel with a lot of people.
Even at the time of Muhammed his use of military tactics was questioned by some as to whether they could possibly be the actions of a holy man.
Passive resistance, right? I mean, look at the Occupy movements etc.
The use of violence to prove a noble point doesn't seem to gel with a lot of people.
Even at the time of Muhammed his use of military tactics was questioned by some as to whether they could possibly be the actions of a holy man.
Some people have theorized that Buddha influences Jesus, but there is really no evidence to support that hypothesis. Their teachings were more different than similar, and the similarities are mostly things common in many unrelated religions.
Mohammad was indisputably influenced by Christianity. He acknowledged Jesus as a very great prophet, even if he claimed that his followers had gotten things wrong after his death.
You'd have a much better case arguing for Zoroaster as an influence on Jesus, although the degree of his influence is still uncertain.
Almost any of the Old Testament Prophets (particularly Moses) would obviously have a bigger influence.
Mohammad was indisputably influenced by Christianity. He acknowledged Jesus as a very great prophet, even if he claimed that his followers had gotten things wrong after his death.
You'd have a much better case arguing for Zoroaster as an influence on Jesus, although the degree of his influence is still uncertain.
Almost any of the Old Testament Prophets (particularly Moses) would obviously have a bigger influence.
Christian culture has defined the western world for something close to the last couple of thousand years to the point that christian imagery and ideologies are found in most secular environments, for better or for worse Christianity and therefore Jesus has hada greater influence on the world.
Interesting point
Lucifer is the light bringer. 'Luciferian' doctrines are ones where man is assertive. Reason is held in high regard. The snake in the garden of eden is sometimes held to be lucifer as it gives mankind knowledge...it empowers mankind
The drive behind modern science that shifted it from esoteric alchemy into modern empirical science was carried out by people who were asserting mans ability to know things for himself
This kind of hubris was spoken about in the bible in the story of the tower of babel where mans endevours to reach to the heavens were destroyed by god who saw mans efforts as arrogance
Modern science was moulded by people like Francis Bacon who is described by some as the 'creator of empiriscism'. He was a freemason and a rosecrucian. An influx of German rosecrucians to England who were fleeing from persecution turned London into one of the worlds scientific centres.
A group of people (all freemasons) centred around Robert Boyle created a group they called in secret 'the invisible college' whose stated aim was to acquire knowledge through experimental investigation. For a while religion was a barrier to science so science operated underground. For example religion did not allow the desicration of bodies preventing the medical dissection of bodies to investigate the inner workings of the human body.
The occult always offered an intellectual freedom that the church did not. Science has clearly brought some benefits but also has had some tragic and worrying applications
A luciferian figurehead has always been prometheus who stole fire from the gods to give to man. Fire is seen as a luciferian motif, representing the illumination of the human mind. The french freemasons made a torch bearing statue called the 'statue of liberty' for the freemasons in the USA.
The Rockefeller family which owns many shares in the federal reserve bank and is heavily involved in many areas of US american life have a statue of prometheus/lucifer outside their New York offices
The Rockefellers donated the land in new york for the building of the UN offices which is a prototype world government. A publishing group with UN status is the lucifer trust, now re-named the lucis trust which publishes the occult books of Alice Bailey
So although on the surface of things Jesus or Mohammed may seem fairly important but your average christian or muslim people don't generally weild that much power. The people who are the real movers and shakers in the world are the luciferians but they don't shout that from the roof top, although if you study symbols you will see that their symbols are everywhere.
They are the real power operating from the shadows whilst joe and jane bloggs on the street argue amongst themselves over who is more important Jesus or Mohammed
[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]
First: lol
Second: I'm starting to believe we would be better off without science. The knowledge itself isn't bad, it's an inanimate object, but it's the prevailing human nature that has us forever putting it to ill use. Whether it's wearing down Mother Earth, destroying one another...human beings as a whole are not worthy of such knowledge and I daresay it will kill us all one day (soon).
I shan't be sad. Life will go on.
First: lol
Second: I'm starting to believe we would be better off without science. The knowledge itself isn't bad, it's an inanimate object, but it's the prevailing human nature that has us forever putting it to ill use. Whether it's wearing down Mother Earth, destroying one another...human beings as a whole are not worthy of such knowledge and I daresay it will kill us all one day (soon).
I shan't be sad. Life will go on.
Jesus. Mohammad's influence on the world is very much limited to third world Muslim countries. Most of the civilized world is heavily influenced by Christian philosophy. Not to mention the influence of Christianity on International Law. Christian countries were the only recognized subjects of International Law. Everyone else was considered uncivilized, and the laws of civilized nations didn't apply to them. That's the excuse that lead to colonizations, taking land from Natives and even slavery. If Christianity didn't happen, the Western civilizations would be completely different. They may not even exist. And since Islam is also influenced by Christianity, it probably wouldn't exist either.
That's because most people who convert to Islam are poor, hungry and uneducated Africans who don't know anything about Islam. And once they find out that they have to pray 5 times a day starting at dawn, abstain from eating and drinking anything until sunset whilst being threatened with eternal damnation if they don't abide by those rules, it doesn't seem to resonate well with them. For obvious reasons, I'd say. Their lives are hard enough as it is. Why would they willingly make them harder?
On the other hand they have Christianity that only asks them to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
Religion is like a product in third world countries. And the product with better marketing strategy wins. Islam is like a detergent company that keeps saying how their detergent is the best one and that most people are using it. If they say it enough times some people will start to believe it. Some may try it out. But they soon discover that the old one was better and cheaper.
If this sounds like an INTJ rant, that's because it is. My INTJ bf loves religious discussions and I've been picking up quite a lot. Atheist INTJ's have a very amusing way of talking about religion. They can be spiritual. But to them (or at least to my INTJ) religion is the opposite of spirituality.
Not really. The growth rate of Islam is directly linked to the birth rate in third world countries where Islam is a dominant religion. And it's still not enough. The statistics are being manipulated by Muslims. Christian birth rate in third world countries is higher than that of Muslims, and the conversion rate is higher as well, and it's persistent which is of bigger importance. Most people who convert to Islam go back to their original religion after a few years or they're being converted to Christianity if that wasn't their original religion.
That's because most people who convert to Islam are poor, hungry and uneducated Africans who don't know anything about Islam. And once they find out that they have to pray 5 times a day starting at dawn, abstain from eating and drinking anything until sunset whilst being threatened with eternal damnation if they don't abide by those rules, it doesn't seem to resonate well with them. For obvious reasons, I'd say. Their lives are hard enough as it is. Why would they willingly make them harder?
On the other hand they have Christianity that only asks them to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
Religion is like a product in third world countries. And the product with better marketing strategy wins. Islam is like a detergent company that keeps saying how their detergent is the best one and that most people are using it. If they say it enough times some people will start to believe it. Some may try it out. But they soon discover that the old one was better and cheaper.
If this sounds like an INTJ rant, that's because it is. My INTJ bf loves religious discussions and I've been picking up quite a lot. Atheist INTJ's have a very amusing way of talking about religion. They can be spiritual. But to them (or at least to my INTJ) religion is the opposite of spirituality.
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Interesting post. It makes a lot of sense, actually.
I see religion as spirituality for those who don't know why they're doing what they're doing.
It's like a 'follow these steps and you won't go too wrong' but they should be in addition to doing whatever the hell you want to do.
If you eat a certain way and do certain things it can help and some religious thinking could be good but it fundamentally relies on the regular person not getting the 'why' of spirituality and that, I think, is what is changing in the world.
Agreed.
Mohammad was influenced by a number of heretical/schismatic bishops/monks. The Koran has large sections that are reworkings of Christian Scriptures. So any influence (be it consistant/inconsistant with Christian faith/principals) Mohammad may have had is significantly derivative from the influence of Christ.