Friend in an Abusive Relationship

[Gobias Industries]

A dear friend of mine is seeing a guy she met through me and another friend of mine. Thing is, we only know him by Xbox Live, and what I knew of him was that he was a tool. So now she's dating him, but she's never met him in person, she can't be open about it because she's only 16 and he's 20 (and in the military, and lives in a different state, etc.).
About a month ago, she told me about their relationship, and began to let me in on how he treats her. He increasingly began calling her 'B@#!h' and 'woman', makes her value herself less, makes her feel obligated to be with him (using his prior broken engagement), and gets angry at her for either trivial things (she woke him up to get on skype, and then almost immediately was forced to leave the chat, and he got angry; she tried to stop an argument by mentioning how little the subject of the fight mattered compared to their overall relationship, and he refused to talk to her) or for not doing or not being able to do the things he asks her to do (skipping school to skype with him, etc). He also belittles her, and, on at least one occasion that I know of, he ignored her when she asked for his help resisting drug use (luckily, she managed to avoid the temptation). And to punish her when she does something wrong by his standards, he refuses to talk to her for periods of time, which drives her crazy with guilt because he gets her to blame herself for whatever odd infraction she commited. And when they break up, she feels "empty" and at the nearest opportunity, they get back together, even though she's aware that the relationship isn't quite healthy for her.
While I'm definitely no expert, this sounds like an emotionally abusive relationship, and what mediocre research I've done seems to back me up (Please correct me if I'm wrong). I've told her what I think she should do, which is end the relationship, and she seems to understand why I think that, yet when it comes down to actually breaking up, she never follows through, telling herself that she loves him and he loves her. And the more I hear her say those things, the tighter the knot gets in my stomach. I know abusive relationships can lead to the point of almost obsessive attachment, and it would kill me to see her wasting her life away with some guy who treats her horribly. While I know it's not my life, and it's her decision, I sometimes feel like ending the relationship with whatever it takes, even if that means ruining her friendship with me and violating her trust by involving her parents.
It's driving me crazy, and even though I know this is my problem, I was praying that someone can give me advice on what I should do, or maybe tell me what I should say to her, or at least tell me that I'm just being a neurotic mess and that I need to calm down.


P.S.- Just to make it clear, her and I are the same age.

 

[Neuropedia]

I've been here. I try to break up with people alot but they never let me. I'm easily manipulated and stuff. Get together with her for a few hours to talk. Make a pro/cons list of her feelings being with him. Provide the definitions of abuse and the cycle of abuse. Get her to make alist of the things she wants/needs/deserves in a relationship. Provide a definition of a healthy relationship, or examples. Ask her what she thinks a loving relationship looks and feels like.

If she wants to break up with him, get her to make a plan a few days prior, get her to write everything he has to say. offer to be with her, when she does it so she can't back down. If she is still manipulated into staying, get her to write a letter/email than block off contact with him for a few days. I need to give people my cell phone so I can't answer their calls. Spend time with her before/after the breakup so she feels valuable and safe. Weekends are best. Preferably time involving icecream, kittens and video games.


If it still doesn't work don't worry it's ultimately her problem and not yours. She can only learn when she is ready to learn. Forcing it prematurely and she end up in another abusive relationship sooner or later. It's not as if girls randomly end up with abusive guys. It's a pattern of behaviors and attitudes. Show her what a healthy relationship (platonically or romantically) looks like through you how you interact with her. Over stepping a boundary will probably confuse her, hurt her and make the problem worse n the long run. Only involve other people if it becomes physically violent. Find her free counseling if you can, and offer it t her, and offer to go with her to her first session

Godspeed.

 

[894tt3h9]

I've been here. I try to break up with people alot but they never let me. I'm easily manipulated and stuff. Get together with her for a few hours to talk. Make a pro/cons list of her feelings being with him. Provide the definitions of abuse and the cycle of abuse. Get her to make alist of the things she wants/needs/deserves in a relationship. Provide a definition of a healthy relationship, or examples. Ask her what she thinks a loving relationship looks like.

If she wants to break up with him, get her to make a plan a few days prior, get her to write everything he has to say. offer to be with her, when she does it so she can't back down. If she is still manipulated into staying, get her to write a letter/email than block off contact with him for a few days. I need to give people my cell phone so I can't answer their calls. Spend time with her before/after the breakup so she feels valuable and safe. Weekends are best. Preferably time involving icecream, kittens and video games.


If it still doesn't work don't worry it's ultimately her problem and not yours.
Godspeed.

+1

 

[Griffin]

You're being a neurotic mess and need to calm down- but you're totally right in my opinion.
If the relationship is as emotionally abusive and degrading as you describe, you are completely in the right in trying to get her to stop seeing this guy. As far as techniques and going about doing it, while I cannot provide personal experience I can give a few suggestions from an outside perspective.
Unlike other abusive relationships, this one is thankfully going to be easier to remedy because the boyfriend in question cannot physically threaten her to bully her into staying as I can imagine he would. You have the physical presence and this is an opportunity to really talk with her one on one to get her to realize how destructive the relationship is as well as a responsibility not to get too pushy about it if she does not want to budge.
As you said, in the end it is her life and you cannot change someone that doesn't want to change. If she does decide to stay with the boyfriend after you have done all you can to convince her, it is her decision if it isn't doing her serious psychological harm. The best you can do is be there for her, both during the relationship and if it ends badly.

As a side note, if they start talking about meeting up offline, I would do something more drastic about it, as this person sounds like he has an abusive personality online and that may carry over to offline.

 

[DrShephard]

Sucky situation... we've all seen people we care about going through these sorts of things. Invariably, though, I always come to the same conclusion. It's not very consoling, but at least it's a realistic answer. There is an unpleasant reality concerning the situation of a friend doing something that's detrimental to them, and they aren't listening to you. Some of these may be snippets from previous posts...

It's not within your power to change a person. Unfortunately, for you, she has to come to the decision to date him by herself. Whether it's a bad decision or a good one, it's her decision and she's the one who is making it. You won't be able to shift her thinking into realizing that he's no good for her - she has to come to that conclusion on her own. That may be soon, or it may be in a long time, or it may just take some time in between those two. You can be there for her when she wants help, but aside from that there's not much more you can do. In fact, trying to convince her of something she doesn't feel may even lead her to disliking you and retreating to her jerkface boyfriend even more!

What I'm more concerned about is you. If you are spinning your wheels on this and not making any progress... it can get tiring and rather unpleasant. Maybe she'll start running to you, putting you in the supportive friend role so that she can get some validation that she isn't getting while she's in the relationship. Because of that, she might stay in the relationship longer - but who knows?

When I give advice, I usually like to tell people that anything they choose to do is just as good as anything else. Whatever you choose to do will be fine. In doing that, we allow ourselves to choose the option that's naturally expressed. If you're looking for options, I'll throw a few out there. Any of them are as good as any of the others. Morals don't decide what's best, what does is who you are naturally.

You can't affect her decision or make her think something she doesn't feel. If you do succeed in it, it will most likely result in a delayed resentment of you - even if it's only in her subconscious. She's growing as a person, and she needs these experiences to balance out her alert system... even if they hurt her. If it hurts you too much and you can't talk to her anymore... if it's tearing you up inside, then don't feel bad abandoning the situation and just sitting it out until it ends. If you need to stay and try and help - if that's what your authentic self is telling you to do - then don't feel bad about staying and trying to help her. She'll change when she's ready to change, and nothing can rush that.

Hope that helped, and I hope it wasn't too jumbled. People are going to do what they are going to do, and you can only control yourself. It's unfortunate sometimes, but it's the way I've evaluated our interactions to be! Good luck!

 

[slant]

I do not know what to say about your friend. All I have to say on this subject is that I was in this woman's exact position, and I had not even told my friends about it because of the secrecy. No one knows about it today except for this community, because this is where it started. I did not tell anyone because I knew that if I told someone they would scold me for it, I knew it was wrong but I was in a place mentally where I needed someone to appreciate me, someone older, someone I felt that I could relate to. My snapping point was gradual, events happened that annoyed me and it was clear I did not trust this person. In fact I did not view this person as a person entirely, more of a tool, this person promised me to take me places and provide for me and I did not like my family at the time, I was in a bad spot and felt that I had no freedom. I can not say no good came out of this period of time. Had it not been for this event and this romance I would not be in college right now- decisions were influenced by this person that made my life better, it was not all negative. I know that if a friend had tried to approach me and solve my issue I would have gotten quite defensive and defended this person, even though I did not even entirely trust him, I would be offended because it would feel like the person was being critical of my judgement, the typical 'well you don't know us'. I got out of that situation by myself, it was not something that someone pulled me out of for me, I had to pull myself out, I had to realize it for myself. Some people planted the seed and helped me just by being who they were. Billy made some posts and statements here that for some reason struck a chord and it caused me to re-evaluate this relationship and ultimately end it. I did not chose to seek out anyone for support- aside from Billy- until after I had closed the relationship. I think that is because I was not sure if this was going to be final or if I would go back. In fact for months after we played a game of adding and blocking each other on these forums and on MSN. But eventually, I think that it just faded into the background, the more time that passed the less I was concerned about it and now I am here. Again, I have no advice. But this is my experience on the subject.

 

[Gobias Industries]

I really appreciate all of this everybody. I feel somewhat better about the whole situation, and every one has provided a desperately needed fresh viewpoint. I definitely feel like I need to at least be there for her, and I have made it clear that I won't judge her or anything and that no matter what she decides, I'll be there for her. And like some of you have said, that may be all I can do without pushing her away and making her feel more isolated, even if it kills me to do only that.

 

[Neuropedia]

if she's one of the brighter bulbs and/or has a messiah complex:
http://philosophybites.com/2011/02/jonathan-glover-on-personality-disorder-and-morality.html

 

[acd]

You're right... the relationship is dysfunctional and abusive...
It sucks being the friend who cares and tries to warn... yet all your efforts go unheeded..

The only thing you can do is continue to be her friend and point out at every instance how messed up the situation is.
She may not break up with him right away or even soon--but at least you've planted those seeds and she WILL think about what you've said eventually.

Statistically, it takes a woman in an abusive relationship five break-ups before she actually thinks about really leaving.
Just be her friend and know that it's going to be a drawn out process..

That said, she's 16 and in an abusive internet relationship with a 20 year old for crissakes! I'd tell her parents if I were really concerned for her!
She'd get over it in time once she realized what a psycho the guy was.
Little tip. Most twenty something males (and females) that date teenagers are total weirdos who can't relate to women (or men) their own age. Steer clear.

 

[Agapooka]

I've been in the position of the friend of someone in a questionable relationship.

My INTPness was useful.

I didn't tell her what to do.

I analysed it for her and made it obvious and easy.


Agapooka

 

[Curiosilla]

I would say it depends on your relationship with your friend too-- have you two talked about it in-depth? Like, have you explained your perspective of the situation? She needs to know she can be in a better situation. offer all of your support and perhaps together you can come up with a plan. Is this her first relationship? Why do you think she has this strong attatchment with him? have you ever interacted with him? How did he first come off to you?

 

[Curiosilla]

Sucky situation... we've all seen people we care about going through these sorts of things. Invariably, though, I always come to the same conclusion. It's not very consoling, but at least it's a realistic answer. There is an unpleasant reality concerning the situation of a friend doing something that's detrimental to them, and they aren't listening to you. Some of these may be snippets from previous posts...

It's not within your power to change a person. Unfortunately, for you, she has to come to the decision to date him by herself. Whether it's a bad decision or a good one, it's her decision and she's the one who is making it. You won't be able to shift her thinking into realizing that he's no good for her - she has to come to that conclusion on her own. That may be soon, or it may be in a long time, or it may just take some time in between those two. You can be there for her when she wants help, but aside from that there's not much more you can do. In fact, trying to convince her of something she doesn't feel may even lead her to disliking you and retreating to her jerkface boyfriend even more!

What I'm more concerned about is you. If you are spinning your wheels on this and not making any progress... it can get tiring and rather unpleasant. Maybe she'll start running to you, putting you in the supportive friend role so that she can get some validation that she isn't getting while she's in the relationship. Because of that, she might stay in the relationship longer - but who knows?

When I give advice, I usually like to tell people that anything they choose to do is just as good as anything else. Whatever you choose to do will be fine. In doing that, we allow ourselves to choose the option that's naturally expressed. If you're looking for options, I'll throw a few out there. Any of them are as good as any of the others. Morals don't decide what's best, what does is who you are naturally.

You can't affect her decision or make her think something she doesn't feel. If you do succeed in it, it will most likely result in a delayed resentment of you - even if it's only in her subconscious. She's growing as a person, and she needs these experiences to balance out her alert system... even if they hurt her. If it hurts you too much and you can't talk to her anymore... if it's tearing you up inside, then don't feel bad abandoning the situation and just sitting it out until it ends. If you need to stay and try and help - if that's what your authentic self is telling you to do - then don't feel bad about staying and trying to help her. She'll change when she's ready to change, and nothing can rush that.

Hope that helped, and I hope it wasn't too jumbled. People are going to do what they are going to do, and you can only control yourself. It's unfortunate sometimes, but it's the way I've evaluated our interactions to be! Good luck!

I agree with a couple of things you pointed out but--

I don't think she is trying to make her THINK something she doesn't feel but rather make her take notice of other feelings she might be supressing.

Why do you think her friend didn't break up with her boyfriend right away? She feels powerless and attatched, she has forgoten about other things, her own importance.

Yeah, she's growing as a person, but what if she doesn't get to grow further because of this?

Not everyone can come up with these realisations on their own, some people do need to hear it from others.

What if she can help?

 

[Agapooka]

Indeed, you need details.

Then you can work out the complexities of their particular implications and the manner in which they are connected to each other, as well as the possible ways in which the current situation could turn out and the particular conditions that would necessarily accompany each possibility.

X happened. Why? => It could be because of A, B or C.

If it is A, it could mean X about the other person.
If it is B... etc.

If X is the case, then D, E or F could happen. If D happens, it is because of this, this and that. If E happens, it would require Z and/or have the following implications... Etc.

The above was all that was necessary for my friend, but you may need to ask the following, too. Don't do it systematically, though. I'm just saying that this is all information of which she should become conscious in some way. I do, think, however, that if she is conscious of the implications and the possibilities and the implications of these possibilities, that many things should become clear to her. It should be clear that she is the object of abuse and that if she has genuine feelings for him, they are not reciprocated. It is likely that, if he expresses them at all, he does so purely for manipulative purposes. This is supported by the other manipulative behaviour (punishment, selective ignoring, incessant negative criticism, etc.)

The following questions should occur naturally, but if they need to be posed: Why are you with this person? What are you pursuing, which, either this person is capable of providing, or for which you hope this person may be able to provide in the future? Etc.

It's also important to create (not necessarily ask) questions which have implications beyond the relationship. What is important to her? Does she long to feel loved? Does she know that she is in a destructive relationship - one that will bring her further away from her ideals?

I'll note it here, though. It's not an interrogation. You need to be able to observe patterns and pointing out these patterns should create the questions in her mind. Now, I recognise that this may not be the way most of you go about this. This is fine. If anything, this post should point out the specific things of which both you (if you wish to help her) and her should become aware in order to proceed to a reasonable course of action.

A reasonable course of action cannot be pushed. It cannot be an agenda of yours, in other words. From the information posted here, I have a vague idea of the reasonable course of action. It must come from information. Information about the situation, about feelings, etc. You cannot base it on just one source. You cannot force her to detach herself from her feelings and ignore them, but you cannot just focus on these. If looking beyond feelings is difficult for her, you need to be able to do it. Describing things precisely will create new feelings, naturally resulting from the new, broader perspective.


Agapooka

 

[Gobias Industries]

I would say it depends on your relationship with your friend too-- have you two talked about it in-depth? Like, have you explained your perspective of the situation? She needs to know she can be in a better situation. offer all of your support and perhaps together you can come up with a plan. Is this her first relationship? Why do you think she has this strong attatchment with him? have you ever interacted with him? How did he first come off to you?

We have talked about it, and I've let her know that I think the relationship is abusive and that I don't think it's healthy for her. It is definitely not her first relationship, and as a matter of fact I believe that a previous relationship contributed to her getting and staying with this guy. According to her, she put her all into it, and he still broke up with her. I think this lowered her standards as well as damaged how she values herself. I think she might be afraid that if her current relationship fails when she does everything to make it work (at her expense) it might mean that none of her relationships in the future would work. That's purely speculation, though, and I could easily be wrong there. I also haven't told her about that idea.
As for having interacted with him, I knew him before she did, and I always thought he was kind of a tool, but i never thought he was horrible until I became aware of this relationship. He was engaged before this relationship, but it broke off when his fianc

 

[Gobias Industries]

I will say that, so far, I've done my best to bring her focus on how she feels about the relationship by asking her about how she's feeling during the cycle, why she thinks she's in the relationship, what she feels for him and why, etc. I have worried that I might be imposing my opinions and thoughts into the situation (I once tried to suggest one reason she might be in the relationship before-that she might feel obligated to him) but I do try to leave my goals out of it by trying to get her to state her emotions, thoughts, intentions, etc. If I got her out of it by pushing my thoughts on her as though they were her own, I don't think I'd be any better than her boyfriend.

 

[Gaze]

I will say that, so far, I've done my best to bring her focus on how she feels about the relationship by asking her about how she's feeling during the cycle, why she thinks she's in the relationship, what she feels for him and why, etc. I have worried that I might be imposing my opinions and thoughts into the situation (I once tried to suggest one reason she might be in the relationship before-that she might feel obligated to him) but I do try to leave my goals out of it by trying to get her to state her emotions, thoughts, intentions, etc. If I got her out of it by pushing my thoughts on her as though they were her own, I don't think I'd be any better than her boyfriend.

I think as a friend, once she is aware of the signs of abuse, just be there to support her as you have been. Maybe, subtly get her to talk about how she thinks she's helped by being in this relationship.

 

[Agapooka]

I will say that, so far, I've done my best to bring her focus on how she feels about the relationship by asking her about how she's feeling during the cycle, why she thinks she's in the relationship, what she feels for him and why, etc. I have worried that I might be imposing my opinions and thoughts into the situation (I once tried to suggest one reason she might be in the relationship before-that she might feel obligated to him) but I do try to leave my goals out of it by trying to get her to state her emotions, thoughts, intentions, etc. If I got her out of it by pushing my thoughts on her as though they were her own, I don't think I'd be any better than her boyfriend.

Indeed:

A reasonable course of action cannot be pushed. It cannot be an agenda of yours, in other words. From the information posted here, I have a vague idea of the reasonable course of action. It must come from information. Information about the situation, about feelings, etc.

In this case, it's becoming clearer to me that she is attached to the idea of a relationship and that she ties the idea with how desirable she is as a person. She believes that if a relationship fails despite what she feels to be her best effort, that this reflects on her as a person.

If the pattern is consistent, I would say that it reflects on her choices, but not necessarily anything else. If she's so willing to give her all, though, she's attracting people who will use her. If she is making herself this vulnerable and accessible so easily, it gives off the idea that she believes that nobody would make an effort to reach that side of her, so this is her shortcut. In the end, she wants to be able to get close to someone, but doesn't value herself enough to believe that anyone else would invest the effort, so she throws herself out there, hoping that someone will happen upon her and value her.

The thing is, by taking this shortcut, she's attracting the wrong crowd and the wrong mentality. It's like when you get something for free, somehow, you value it less. This is somewhat of a global problem, of course. People take what they can and give more value to something if they had to invest a lot in acquiring it. In a way, the value of the thing is represented by that investment.

She needs to learn this. She needs to learn that it isn't a problem about who she is, but rather, a problem with what she is doing and, by proxy, whom she is attracting.

She absolutely needs to understand this.


Agapooka

 

[Gobias Industries]

I'm thinking about consulting a therapist to see what they think of the situation, and maybe get some advice on what I can do. That said, what I'm currently thinking I might do is talk with her and try to get her to verbalize her feelings about the relationship, what she wants in a relationship, etc. and see what she wants to do after we've discussed all of her thoughts. If she wants to stay with him, I'll back off, never bring it up like this again, and just be there for her. If she doesn't want to be with him, then I'll probably follow Neuropedia's advice and offer my help if she wants it. I'm thinking I'll leave out my analysis, though I'm not sure if I should give it to her if she asks for it or just let her analyze the situation on her own.
I'm worried I might alienate her if I decide to do this, though. I don't want to sound overly dependent on other people's opinions, but is this an okay way to approach this, or should I do something different?
And, again, I want to thank everyone for helping me out.

 

[Neuropedia]

I think it would be great for you to talk to a counsellor. They can be super helpful, and it sounds like you could use a bit of support yourself - especially from a professional in the field.

 

[Galileo]

A dear friend of mine is seeing a guy she met through me and another friend of mine. Thing is, we only know him by Xbox Live, and what I knew of him was that he was a tool. So now she's dating him, but she's never met him in person, she can't be open about it because she's only 16 and he's 20 (and in the military, and lives in a different state, etc.).

I'm not actually sure what the rules are here, but at least where I'm from online relationships aren't even covered by any laws...

He increasingly began calling her 'B@#!h' and 'woman', makes her value herself less, makes her feel obligated to be with him (using his prior broken engagement), and gets angry at her for either trivial things (she woke him up to get on skype, and then almost immediately was forced to leave the chat, and he got angry;

Ok the first is very bad and she needs to talk to him about the way he makes her feel and if she doesn't see any improvement she needs to get out of the relationship. I mean, if it's making her feel worse overall what's the point of being in it?

However, the last tends to suggest to me that she might be a bit clingy, though admitedly I don't know the situation. but did she expressly waking him up, knowing that he was asleep to talk to her?

I've been in long distance relationships, and the one thing that does piss me off is my partner waking me up when it's not an emergancy just wanting to chat. I'm a light sleeper, and once I'm awake I tend to be so for a few hours. It's also something I would never do to them. I knew their scheduals and called when I knew they were awake or when I saw them online.

Long distance relationships are generally difficult, but there needs to be a lot of understanding involved as to when you will have time together, and this is probably a discussion they need to have so that the relationship doesn't actually disrupt their lives.

and he refused to talk to her) or for not doing or not being able to do the things he asks her to do (skipping school to skype with him, etc).

see above, names reversed etc.

this certainly sounds like an abusive relationship, however I'd ask yourself if it's worth possibly ruining your friendship over.

the reality is is that for the next 4 years probably they will not meet each other, so I don't think she's in any physical danger of being taken advantage of.
it honestly sounds like one of the many online relationships between the young that end in teers but do, in time, end.
the best thing you can do is constantly remind her what you think and support her either way while encouraging her to make the right decision.