First be armed

[Lark]

What do you think about this recommendation from Machavelli? I know that the Sikh religion actually requires its followers to possess daggers, which while considered largely ceremonial are related to early maxims about being prepared to challenge oppression in more than ways than simply opinion and words.

What is your view on this and I'm also interested in how you formed it too, I appreciate this could descend into a "gun control" topical thread but that's not my intention at all to be honest, its about attitudes towards weapons in a broadest possible sense.

 

[muir]

What do you think about this recommendation from Machavelli? I know that the Sikh religion actually requires its followers to possess daggers, which while considered largely ceremonial are related to early maxims about being prepared to challenge oppression in more than ways than simply opinion and words.

What is your view on this and I'm also interested in how you formed it too, I appreciate this could descend into a "gun control" topical thread but that's not my intention at all to be honest, its about attitudes towards weapons in a broadest possible sense.

The ideal situation would be one where society is stable enough that weapons aren't necessary and by 'stable' i don't mean pacified i mean a society where there is no oppressive form whether it is private interests, cirminals or the authorities

Unfortunately we are not yet at that point so until that is achieved people will need to protect themselves from the authorities, from criminals and from private interests such as the corporations (with their private armies called 'private defence contractors')

The US was formed when the citizens rose up and used military grade weapons to throw out an oppressive government which was itself massivley indebted to central bankers (due to war loans) and was therefore having to heavily tax its colonies

Now the central bankers have managed to take control of the US again after a power struggle that has been going on since the birth of the US

So sadly now people must again try and hold the bankster controlled authorities to account and to do so they would be best advised to hold onto their military grade weapons (eg AR15's)

Here in the UK we had a school shooting carried out by a man who was a known peodophile and had links to the freemasons (and threough those links he was allowed to keep guns by the police despite his peadophilia). After the shooting the government banned hand guns which means that people can only own shotguns and rifles under licence which must be approved by the police and under certain strict conditions. Investigations into the shooting and the freemasonic links of the shooter were whitewashed by a judge who was a member of the masonic 'speculative society'; he placed people under a 100 year gagging order to shut them up

A school shooting in australia also tihgtened gun laws there and obviously there have been a spate in the US which are being used as a justification for the government to take guns away

However if there had been armed adults in the school the shooters could have been stopped

So yeah....in a society free from oppression weapons aren't necessary but in a society where there are people trying to oppress other people theni'd say people have a right to defend themselves

It's my opinion that one of the biggest barriers to the globalists plan for a one world government controlled by them (the death of democracy) is an armed US public. They've taken our guns already folks....you are the now the last line of defence

 

[muir]

National Guard units seeking to confiscate a cache of recently banned assault weapons were ambushed by elements of a Para-military extremist faction. Military and law enforcement sources estimate that 72 were killed and more than 200 injured before government forces were compelled to withdraw.

Speaking after the clash, Massachusetts Governor Thomas Gage declared that the extremist faction, which was made up of local citizens, has links to the radical right-wing tax protest movement. Gage blamed the extremists for recent incidents of vandalism directed against internal revenue offices. The governor, who described the group’s organizers as “criminals,” issued an executive order authorizing the summary arrest of any individual who has interfered with the government’s efforts to secure law and order. The military raid on the extremist arsenal followed wide-spread refusal by the local citizenry to turn over recently outlawed assault weapons. Gage issued a ban on military-style assault weapons and ammunition earlier in the week.

This decision followed a meeting in early this month between government and military leaders at which the governor authorized the forcible confiscation of illegal arms. One government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, pointed out that “none of these people would have been killed had the extremists obeyed the law and turned over their weapons voluntarily.” Government troops initially succeeded in confiscating a large supply of outlawed weapons and ammunition. However, troops attempting to seize arms and ammunition in Lexington met with resistance from heavily-armed extremists who had been tipped off regarding the government’s plans. During a tense standoff in the Lexington town park, National Guard Colonel Francis Smith, commander of the government operation, ordered the armed group to surrender and return to their homes.

The impasse was broken by a single shot, which was reportedly fired by one of the right-wing extremists. Eight civilians were killed in the ensuing exchange. Ironically, the local citizenry blamed government forces rather than the extremists for the civilian deaths. Before order could be restored, armed citizens from surrounding areas had descended upon the guard units. Colonel Smith, finding his forces over matched by the armed mob, ordered a retreat. Governor Gage has called upon citizens to support the state/national joint task force in its effort to restore law and order. The governor also demanded the surrender of those responsible for planning and leading the attack against the government troops. Samuel Adams, Paul Revere, and John Hancock, who have been identified as “ringleaders” of the extremist faction, remain at large.

And this fellow Americans, is how the American Revolution began, April 20, 1775.

http://www.pakalertpress.com/2013/07/08/seventy-two-killed-resisting-gun-confiscation-in-boston/

 

[New Dawn Fades]

If no one has a weapon, then there's nothing to protect from. Because of this, I think that arms should be unnecessary.

What is your view on this and I'm also interested in how you formed it too, I appreciate this could descend into a "gun control" topical thread but that's not my intention at all to be honest, its about attitudes towards weapons in a broadest possible sense.

I'm sorry, I have to say something about this, because I think it's an interesting topic. Some time ago, I watched a satire TV show where everyone laughed about the US, they said "If teenagers in the US shoot each other with guns, that's freedom. But if they are attended in hospital for free afterwards, that's communism." Of course, that's an exaggeration, and there are more perspectives to it, but that's basically how many people here in Europe see this. To me (and to most of the people that I know), the USA is a weird case of double standards.

 

[muir]

If no one has a weapon, then there's nothing to protect from. Because of this, I think that arms should be unnecessary.



I'm sorry, I have to say something about this, because I think it's an interesting topic. Some time ago, I watched a satire TV show where everyone laughed about the US, they said "If teenagers in the US shoot each other with guns, that's freedom. But if they are attended in hospital for free afterwards, that's communism." Of course, that's an exaggeration, and there are more perspectives to it, but that's basically how many people here in Europe see this. To me (and to most of the people that I know), the USA is a weird case of double standards.

Like you i'd like a situation where nobody needs weapons but how do you propose society takes the guns off the authorities and the criminals...so we can get to the situation you describe where no one has a weapon?

 

[Eventhorizon]

You realize this could "decend" to gun control? I suggest its exactly where you want it to go.

 

[New Dawn Fades]

how do you propose society takes the guns off the authorities and the criminals...so we can get to the situation you describe where no one has a weapon?

yeah, exactly that's the problem - because you can't. If you just forbid weapons, people in the underground will still have them, and it's impossible to control everyone. But I think it still would help to forbid guns to raise the inhibition level.

 

[muir]

yeah, exactly that's the problem - because you can't. If you just forbid weapons, people in the underground will still have them, and it's impossible to control everyone. But I think it still would help to forbid guns to raise the inhibition level.

So we have roughly speaking 3 groups:

• the taxpaying law abiding public
• the criminals
• the authorities

The criminals steal from and rape the taxpaying, law abiding public...in essence they prey on them and the authorities extract tax from the tax paying, law abiding citizens and spy on them and take away their democratic powers and civil liberties so that they can become more powerful; also the authorities charge more and more taxes and ask people to work more and more hours until older and older ages so that they can give tax breaks to their rich buddies and pay themselves higher and higher wages...in essence the authorities prey on the taxpaying law abiding public

And you are suggesting we take the guns off the taxpaying, law abiding citizens but leave the guns in the hands of the criminals and the power hungry, tax grabbing and corrupt authorities?

So how is that supposed to help the law abiding, taxpaying public?

 

[sprinkles]

In a broadest possible sense everybody has weapons.

In some places like Thailand or Philippines underground weapons often consists of just knives. Big knives, little knives, machetes, cleavers.

Even in prisons there are still weapons - the shiv being a famous example. Some inmates also take apart their disposable safety razors and use the blades to make weapons. Even though that blade is incredibly small, it is also incredibly sharp. When removed from the plastic cover it can easily cut necks.

I don't worry about it all that much in the broadest sense because everyone who is so inclined has weapons.

 

[New Dawn Fades]

So we have roughly speaking 3 groups:

• the taxpaying law abiding public
• the criminals
• the authorities

The criminals steal from and rape the taxpaying, law abiding public...in essence they prey on them and the authorities extract tax from the tax paying, law abiding citizens and spy on them and take away their democratic powers and civil liberties so that they can become more powerful; also the authorities charge more and more taxes and ask people to work more and more hours until older and older ages so that they can give tax breaks to their rich buddies and pay themselves higher and higher wages...in essence the authorities prey on the taxpaying law abiding public

And you are suggesting we take the guns off the taxpaying, law abiding citizens but leave the guns in the hands of the criminals and the power hungry, tax grabbing and corrupt authorities?

So how is that supposed to help the law abiding, taxpaying public?

When I say everyone, I mean everyone. Not only the tax payers. But this is just unrealistic.
I don't know how it is in the US, but we don't need weapons to protect us.

 

[the]

Your body is a weapon. People have forgotten how to use it as such.

 

[muir]

When I say everyone, I mean everyone. Not only the tax payers. But this is just unrealistic.
I don't know how it is in the US, but we don't need weapons to protect us.

Well here is a thought

Maybe the politicians in Europe (who have built the EU and are members of the UN) want to join their block of countries (the EU) with the emerging North American Union block of countries into one big clump of countries under The World Bank, the IMF and a central government run by technocrats

Maybe they want to do that but the only thing stopping them at the moment is the fact that there are many people in the US who want to uphold the US constitution and will fight to do so and have the weapons to do so

Perhaps them having guns is the only barrier to various things happening. So it might seem that we have freedoms without weapons in Europe but perhaps the thing that actually protects our freedoms is patriotic and/or constitution loving Americans (US)

 

[muir]

Your body is a weapon. People have forgotten how to use it as such.

It hasn't historically proven a good match against firearms

 

[Lerxst]

Just look at other countries and ask yourself how they did it. Guns are regulated, banned, outlawed in a lot of modern countries and those countries don't have Tea Party rebels looking to pick a fight with the first uniform that comes by. Is there dissent? Of course, but shooting people isn't their first reaction.

And Gandhi must not have studied Machiavelli very closely....

 

[Average]

I would agree with that if the circumstances called for actions that require a less reasonable approach.

 

[muir]

Just look at other countries and ask yourself how they did it. Guns are regulated, banned, outlawed in a lot of modern countries and those countries don't have Tea Party rebels looking to pick a fight with the first uniform that comes by. Is there dissent? Of course, but shooting people isn't their first reaction.

And Gandhi must not have studied Machiavelli very closely....

i think we should use satyagraha but at the same time i would hold onto the guns!

The british in India could see things were becoming untenable...not just because of what was happening in india but also elsewhere. Britain had fought two world wars and simply could not hold onto the empire.

The situation in the US today is not the same as the situation in India in the C20.

The situation in the US today is that some globalists want to get rid of the US constitution and create a world government. To do this they must pacify the population

Once they achieve that they will then steamroll the unarmed europeans

The only europeans that would be able to mount a proper armed resistance would be the swiss who are all armed to the teeth (funny that the most neutral country is also the most heavily armed!) but they all do national service and might just follow orders and be absorbed into the new world government

This is what Orwell was talking about in his novel 1984 where he described the world turning into 3 blocks of countries who were all at constant war with each other

The US gun owners are one of the biggest barriers to the plans of the globalists

 

[Stu]

I do not think that individual gun ownership curbs government intrusion. government intrusion is happening at an informational level. you want to hurt someone, wreck their credit rating, keep their kids out of school, make it so they get incompetent medical attention. This notion that gun owners are protecting the freedoms of Americans is just advertizing for gun manufactures.

I like guns, they are cool and powerful. If people are out to harm you physically there is nothing better to have your hands on. Given the inherent violence in American society I truly doubt we will ever give up our weapons, or that we should. I am not so convinced that the number of rounds a clip can hold is as strong a right as is the right to own a fire arm. Fully automatic weapons also don't seem to have a strong foothold in the American psyche.

I would not keep a gun in my house nor would I live in an area that made me believe I should. Perhaps this is wishful thinking as I am sure many of my neighbors are gun owners. I think they are too dangerous. there is a saying in Ireland "The devil puts a bullet in an empty gun every seven years".

A good friend's father was a retired Judge, very nice man, excellent company and a keen intellect. He had been a capt. in the army during the 50s and 60s. In the end of his life his mind degraded to the point that he took out his guns and died in a battle with the local police. There was no crime committed, he sent his wife out of the house and barricaded himself in side, This was in one of the big cities on the East Coast. It was not long before there was a stand off. My friend told me that he was out of his mind....he was back in combat mode and there was no reasoning with him.

Our right to firearms is like our right to vote, it is conditional.

 

[Eventhorizon]

If you out law guns only outlaws will have guns.
Really the only thing that needs to be said here.

 

[the]

It hasn't historically proven a good match against firearms

Or knives, rocks, and stairs. Point?

 

[Lark]

If no one has a weapon, then there's nothing to protect from. Because of this, I think that arms should be unnecessary.



I'm sorry, I have to say something about this, because I think it's an interesting topic. Some time ago, I watched a satire TV show where everyone laughed about the US, they said "If teenagers in the US shoot each other with guns, that's freedom. But if they are attended in hospital for free afterwards, that's communism." Of course, that's an exaggeration, and there are more perspectives to it, but that's basically how many people here in Europe see this. To me (and to most of the people that I know), the USA is a weird case of double standards.

Why did you post that second part in a colour that kind of blends in?