fiction as entertainment | INFJ Forum

fiction as entertainment

invisible

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Sep 30, 2009
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ive noticed that there is a premium on fiction as entertainment, that its entertainment value is the primary factor by which it is judged. ive noticed that often when i want to discuss the merits of a book, people have said to me "if you dont like it, dont read it - simple". and ive noticed that people refuse to finish books that they are finding boring. does a work of fiction have to entertain in order to be worthwhile?
 
Depends on if we're talking about literature, or $5 paperbacks.
 
ive noticed that there is a premium on fiction as entertainment, that its entertainment value is the primary factor by which it is judged. ive noticed that often when i want to discuss the merits of a book, people have said to me "if you dont like it, dont read it - simple". and ive noticed that people refuse to finish books that they are finding boring. does a work of fiction have to entertain in order to be worthwhile?

I think I get what you mean, that people generally don't appreciate fiction as works of art unless they are entertaining?

A Song of Ice and Fire is very popular now in both mainstream and fantasy circles, mostly because of the TV show; but I've seen non-fantasy fans actually pick up the books, which is nice. It's probably because GGR Martin creates a very believable fantasy world and characters; all the sex, power plays, humor etc. are something everyone can relate to. It's escapism with the perfect amount of immersion, which is very good for fantasy. Many people don't get into fantasy because they aren't immersed in strange fictional lands and creatures, probably is why it's rather niche even today. But Ice and Fire really balances the two.

Another example is the Malazan Book of the Fallen series by Steven Erikson. It's a very well created world, but Erikson's writing style and too huge cast of characters tends too loose readers. It's something like a 10-book series, and reviewers say the story doesn't start to pay off until around book 3. Would you read 500-800 page books that didn't get to you until a third of the way in? You'd need a lot of patience.

A written story is communication, and if there is a breakdown in that, for whatever reason, then people will refuse to finish reading.
 
Yes everything must be entertaining to be worth while. Otherwise do you like staring at incoherent jibber? Maybe you just enjoy a certain font? I personally like the bitstream san-serif vera font.
 
I don't really refuse, but for me it can't be helped. In the end it's the same... unfinished.
 
yes... incoherent jibber is not very entertaining. that is a very basic requirement of entertainment. but i think what i am really trying to say by entertaining, or at least what i think that people mean when they talk about something being not entertaining enough, is something to do with pleasure. people think that Moby Dick is not entertaining, they describe it as boring, they refuse to finish reading it. because certain chapters seem to describe material that they are not familiar with, or cant immediately apprehend the purpose of, they decide it is boring and they dont finish reading it. this is the kind of distinction people make about entertainment - or at least, these are my own judgments about what people decide is entertaining.

i think literary fiction can be entertaining, it can be unputdownable and still have a high artistic value - ie still deal deeply with issues about what literature and art really are, what different types of art (eg romantic, classical, postmodernist) really are and why they should exist or what they should do. i also think that popular fictions, such as genre fictions, can contain content that transcends popular or genre status, is not purely "entertaining". so i think the distinction between popular and literary fiction is meaningful to some extent.... but in other ways a little bit artificial.

im always confused that people think that something is unworthwhile if they put it aside on the basis of being boring. they didnt finish consuming the communication, so how can they be an accurate judge of what it was communicating, when they failed to engage with the communication? how can they say that something was boring, when they dont even really know what it contained? they didnt finish it - how can they accurately judge? we dont even really know what they mean by it being boring. does that mean that there were too many big words? does it mean that it contained too much content that they were personally unfamiliar with? and perhaps not willing to understand?

why should the burden of communicating necessarily be the complete responsibility of the communicator? surely we have all had the experience of trying to say something important to someone who just did not want to listen. even just as children, when someone who was taking care of us cautioned us about something that we refused to hear, and did things our way anyway, and got ourselves hurt. its not always the fault of the person doing the communicating, that people are not interested in what they are saying.

i feel that there really is an idea that works of fiction should be consumer-centered, should supply to consumers what they want. i dont agree with that... i dont think a work of fiction must have high readability in order to be worthwhile as an artistic product. sometimes things even have to be unreadable in order to deal with certain ideas, like the work of James Joyce which is highly unreadable from a consumer perspective - most people just do not finish it, and they say "it was boring because thats just how most irish people talk" - but despite that, they failed to finish it, and so they cant really say for sure what its content was. it seems overwhelmingly commercial to me that things should cater to the will of consumers as a primary concern.

i think theres nothing inherently wrong with readability and entertainment value - but surely shouldnt be the only concern in judging a work of fiction?
 
most people read fiction for pleasure, but in theory you could read (and evaluate) a book solely on its literary style, its creative ideas, how much it brings to the genre, etc.
 
[MENTION=5861]Horatio[/MENTION]
Books as art is an interesting concept because books are a time sink and time is valuable. Most other forms of art are readily absorbed, but with books you kind of have to work at it, and well if it's not doing it for you then there are certainly more productive ways to waste time. With that said though:

[MENTION=1814]invisible[/MENTION]
Classics are worth a read IMO even if they don't entertain because they give insights to culture and commentary, and in a way they are also historic.

Also some works are exemplary and really are a display of creativity and imagination. Others seem to just want to cash in on the latest fads.
 
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it does take time, but like a lot of things i usually get out what i put in.

i spend a lot of time making money to put food in my mouth, and a lot of time preparing it and eating it, and a lot of time evacuating the waste products. food can be artistic and interesting, and yummy, but its never as educational as reading a great work of literature.

and like classical music for example. you can listen to a work of music by Beethoven in 5 minutes, 8 minutes, or whatever. but it takes much longer and much more work to understand it than just to consume it.
 
[MENTION=1814]invisible[/MENTION]
Also I think one who has read some of the more heavy and inscrutable books is in more of a position to determine that something isn't worth their time.

To put it in gaming terms, it's like FTL vs Dwarf Fortress. Personally I don't think FTL is as great as people make it out to be. I find it overrated and it's been difficult for me to get into it. It's not because the game is difficult, nor complicated (It isn't at all lol) there just doesn't seem to be a whole lot to it. I don't feel myself all that compelled to do battles or progress. But yet I'm also in a position to determine if something has depth and challenge and substance because I was captivated for many hours by Dwarf Fortress which almost makes you feel like you need a degree to play it due to the complexity, rather harsh unfairness, and an unforgiving interface which you have to navigate.

So it's definitely not me saying that FTL is too hard to grasp because I've appreciated things that are much worse and punishing than FTL. It's the fact that FTL doesn't really give me a lot of incentive to even try very much. It's a bit flat. I wouldn't say it's terrible, or even bad - it's ok. It's just flat and not very substantial to me.
 
Not boring, really. Just not the right time for that particular book. Circle back around to it in a few years/decades.