Fi is not selfish, inferior Fi is...

[Darc]

I was just thinking about this.

It's not so much that Fi is selfish, it's just that often times it can look or even be this way if perhaps your Fi is way at the back of your functions. So yeah, I just realized this and felt like saying it. That's what the common misconceptions is or stems from I believe.

 

[pzl2lxie81mc]

I think shadow Fe is selfishness as it implies someone who isn't aware of other people's feelings as much as their own and therefore, won't need to care about it.

The corollary to this is shadow Fi which characterizes INFJs selflessness and also, an unawareness of our own feelings at times (and tendency to not take care of ourselves emotionally).

Then, the position gives you the kind of selfishness. E/INFP are super feelers and I've always been attracted to that, but they are completely motivated by their own feelings/wants/desires. So, I always end up feeling disappointed in them in the end.

And between individuals, there are degrees. Shadow Fe/Fi does not mean that it's absent or totally inaccessible. And, just because you're and ENFJ doesn't mean you're going to be automatically more empathetic than another ESTP. It just means your empathy comes before your logic.

 

[Darc]

I think shadow Fe is selfishness as it implies someone who isn't aware of other people's feelings as much as their own and therefore, won't need to care about it.

The corollary to this is shadow Fi which characterizes INFJs selflessness and also, an unawareness of our own feelings at times (and tendency to not take care of ourselves emotionally).

Then, the position gives you the kind of selfishness. E/INFP are super feelers and I've always been attracted to that, but they are completely motivated by their own feelings/wants/desires. So, I always end up feeling disappointed in them in the end.

And between individuals, there are degrees. Shadow Fe/Fi does not mean that it's absent or totally inaccessible. And, just because you're and ENFJ doesn't mean you're going to be automatically more empathetic than another ESTP. It just means your empathy comes before your logic.

Well not that's what it is, I don't necessarily agree with that. Unhealthy, or immature ones can be self-absorbed (or just young ones) but I don't think this is typically the case.


I think they;re just oriented in a different way, but with not altogether different motives. I think it's just not about tuning into the group.collective group team spirit thing, and it's taken as self abosrbedness

It's just that to some degree, it could be said there's separation and a space between us all and that's sort of what it is. For me personally, I cannot take who I am altogether, and just change it around like it's completely moldable into something it's not. It's like going against gravity or something "how can I be like that, when it's not who I am" and it's related to the contention or idea of the self, which I guess a lot of really collectivist oriented people perhaps don't understand or believe in perhaps. But it's real and very finite and I think that's kind of what the problem with the world is.

There's always all these demands or expectations placed on individual, and pretty soon these massive external structures take all the impetus to assign and denote a person's worth, their value, who and what they are on the notion of external measures and everything, but in every case is it always possible to always know of an individuals worth? to be able to surmise or predict and proverbially see them as simply some kind of a number?

I mean I had this epiphany about collectivism (but I cannot remember it altogether right now)
But I guess the underlining idea, to achieve harmony and peace, well then you have to take the other person into consideration all of the time, and sure that's a nice idea, there's nothing wrong with that. But on a extreme level, it can start to become oppressive and suddenly are whole lives are dictated by the group (and whosoever is in charge of this group) and well, pretty soon you don't really have any choice or say in your life and as history has shown, this is not always a very good thing...

But see to people like me, that's pretty close to the epitome or definition of oppression or tyranny; and I also think that unfortunately it can lead to stagnation in larger groups of not properly mitigated.



But I also think with Fi---feelings can sort be complicated and not altogether black and white like that to them, so when everyone is in a "really good mood" it's hard for to them to just be "happy" because then the Fi-dom asks, what is happiness? how can one really define it? and likewise, it doesn't change the fact that whether or not you are focusing too much on your own emotions, it doesn't change the fact that we all have them to some degree and it's good to acknowledge them at least part of the time.

I guess, often times it comes at the negation of self, and society placing all of these implications on the individual and in the end it only comes off feeling like close to being a form of imprisonment at times.

 

[Darc]

Another thing I forgot to mention----but often times people lie and/or hide their ulterior motives, so even if one promotes of bolsters a sense of kindship, harmony and a community ON THE SURFACE, it does not negate the self that exists in seclusion to said community or behind closed doors. So like, I think trying to foster harmony can be good, but at times it's not always necessary for every occasion.


Another thing too is that, I think many times (at least N's) experience thing on a 'universal' but individual level. Like, "we all experience and feel things in a similar way such as this" ---it's kind of about the experience of that, and sharing it with others. Like the whole idea that "subjectivity" is bad and our "stories" are the problem, but I don't think that's always true at all. It's a good way of connecting and communicating with people.

Oh but I am not saying that if you have inferior Fi it makes you selfish, I am just saying I think this is largely where the misconceptions come from sort of, or queasiness and dislike. (IT DOESN'T MAKE LOGICAL SENSE, YOU MUST CONFORM GIVE YOURSELF UP!!!!!!!!)lol

 

[pzl2lxie81mc]

I didn't say there was anything wrong with dominant Fi. There is an authenticity to living life according to how you feel, so subjectively. The lack of objectivity however, has the consequence of leaving others neglected, hence disappointed.

I don't typically have feelings of being overwhelmed by other people's expectations. That is not a struggle I face, not because they don't have expectations or that I meet them all the time. They do and I don't. I just don't feel overwhelmed.

 

[Pin]

I like watching Fi dominant types become absurdly successful because they're so damn humble.

 

[charlatan]

Personally, I find the 'objects vs relations' view works better than the 'inner vs outer' view of e/i. The latter basically says the distinction is between inner and outer objects -- so both objects.

I don't really think of Fi/Fe as about whether your value judgments are about things external to yourself (commonly phrased 'others') vs internal ('yourself').

The real reason for this is just that to talk of a 'subject' seems to sort of intrinsically bring an object into the picture that the subject is 'aware of /related to' -- even if that is properties of and aspects of oneself.

Anyway, this perspective kind of dissolves the idea that Fi is 'selfish' -- the sense in which it is subjective is it is very deeply concerned with how judgments are grounded in personal identity.

 

[dragulagu]

Then, the position gives you the kind of selfishness. E/INFP are super feelers and I've always been attracted to that, but they are completely motivated by their own feelings/wants/desires. So, I always end up feeling disappointed in them in the end.

Need more hugs.

And between individuals, there are degrees. Shadow Fe/Fi does not mean that it's absent or totally inaccessible. And, just because you're and ENFJ doesn't mean you're going to be automatically more empathetic than another ESTP. It just means your empathy comes before your logic.

ENFJ - Primary Function


ESTP - Inferior Function


Fyi, did not know the wikipedia of Jungian function was that detailed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungian_cognitive_functions

 

[Lady Jolanda]

Place in the function stack does not equal developmental maturity.

Yes, it is more probable that a Fe-dom has a more developed Fe function than a Fe-auxiliary or Fe-tertiary (ESTP), but it is no guarantee.

 

[Pin]

Fi = Focus on self values

Fe = Focus on group values

Spoiler

That being said, I care about people but in relation to myself and I don't want to live in a world where people are suffering unnecessarily.

 

[Ifur]

The Introverted Feeling Type
[640]
It is principally among women that I have found the predominance of
introverted feeling. “Still waters run deep” is very true of such women.
They are mostly silent, inaccessible, hard to understand; often they hide
behind a childish or banal mask, and their temperament is inclined to
melancholy. They neither shine nor reveal themselves. As they are mainly
guided by their subjective feelings, their true motives generally remain
hidden. Their outward demeanour is harmonious, inconspicuous, giving an
impression of pleasing repose, or of sympathetic response, with no desire
to affect others, to impress, influence, or change them in any way. If this
outward aspect is more pronounced, it arouses a suspicion of indifference
and coldness, which may actually turn into a disregard for the comfort and
well-being of others. One is distinctly aware then of the movement of
feeling away from the object. With the normal type, however, this happens
only when the influence of the object is too strong. The feeling of
harmony, therefore, lasts only so long as the object goes its own moderate
way and makes no attempt to cross the other’s path. There is little effort to
respond to the real emotions of the other person; they are more often
damped down and rebuffed, or cooled off by a negative value judgment.
Although there is a constant readiness for peaceful and harmonious coexistence, strangers are shown no touch of amiability, no gleam of
responsive warmth, but are met with apparent indifference or a repelling
coldness. Often they are made to feel entirely superfluous. Faced with
anything that might carry her away or arouse enthusiasm, this type
observes a benevolent though critical neutrality, coupled with a faint trace
of superiority that soon takes the wind out of the sails of a sensitive person.
Any stormy emotion, however, will be struck down with murderous
coldness, unless it happens to catch the woman on her unconscious side—
that is, unless it hits her feelings by arousing a primordial image. In that
case she simply feels paralysed for the moment, and this in due course
invariably produces an even more obstinate resistance which will hit the
other person in his most vulnerable spot. As far as possible, the feeling
relationship is kept to the safe middle path, all intemperate passions being
resolutely tabooed. Expressions of feeling therefore remain niggardly, and
the other person has a permanent sense of being undervalued once he
becomes conscious of it. But this need not always be so, because very
often he remains unconscious of the lack of feeling shown to him, in which
case the unconscious demands of feeling will produce symptoms designed
to compel attention.

First paragrph on Fi by C.G. Jung where he also say that a purely one function person isn't really possible and talks about a prolonged secondary function for the generally intraverted type.
Jung described each function as if that was possible anyways.

This here stings the most:

Any stormy emotion, however, will be struck down with murderous
coldness, unless it happens to catch the woman on her unconscious side—
that is, unless it hits her feelings by arousing a primordial image.

 

[ZcM4xzkjgzCjytBc]

sel Fi sh

 

[ClevelandINTP]

Fi is pretty selfish

Just like Ti

 

[Fidicen]

Functions are not selfish, people are.

 

[dragulagu]

Fi is selfish, Fe is selfless. Have a healthy dose of both and you'll be fine.

Functions are not selfish, people are.

 

[niar]

They both have the potential to be selfish in different ways. Fi doms have a laissez faire attitude in matters where they should speak up and defend instead of cower and ignore, both and INFPs and ISFPs are professional hand washers. Ironically, some give a shit about social issues, but will ignore an injustice inflicted on someone on a personal level. Fi infs are unable to detach themselves from their own emotions and drama, or understand how their behavior impacts others. INTJs have the noble cause syndrome, and ISTJs their martyrdom, both of which are ends that justfy the means.

 

[Pin]

INTJs have the noble cause syndrome, and ISTJs their martyrdom, both of which are ends that justfy the means.

And ENTJs have what syndrome? After all, inferior Fi.

 

[dragulagu]

They both have the potential to be selfish in different ways. Fi doms have a laissez faire attitude in matters where they should speak up and defend instead of cower and ignore, both and INFPs and ISFPs are professional hand washers. Ironically, some give a shit about social issues, but will ignore an injustice inflicted on someone on a personal level. Fi infs are unable to detach themselves from their own emotions and drama, or understand how their behavior impacts others. INTJs have the noble cause syndrome, and ISTJs their martyrdom, both of which are ends that justfy the means.

I disagree.

Read upon Ifur's snippet on Jung's description on Fi. Fi on it's own as a primary function can be a serious hindrance in regards to emotional readability or interaction with other people.
Fi is a strong inward focus to the emotional self. This can balance and strengthen one's own emotions towards a strong stability. But this can also mean you will shield of yourself emotionally from emotional input from other people. (hence the coldness, hence the lack of feelings). Handwashing just make the situation worse.

INTJ's may have a noble cause, sure, ISTJ's may have martyrdom (which tbh. i doubt it). Both have Fi as a tertiary inferior function -> they will not understand their own emotions well enough initially. And it takes a long while to properly decipher these feelings. So a noble cause...eh.

INFJ's (in the purest sense of the function stack) focus on Fe, feelings on others. They focus on how other people feel in a situation. This is the at the strong cost of their own emotional self. Hence the general issue with their own emotional/personal boundaries. (Fe comes first, eg. the focus on how other people feel. Fi comes far after, eg. how you feel in the situation). Fi INFJ's are unhealthy (sorry).

As such, Fi is selfish (the focus on self, own feelings)
As such Fe is selfless (the focus on other, other feelings)
As such it is a must to have a balance in these (from whatever MBTI stack you come from)