External vs Internal religion | INFJ Forum

External vs Internal religion

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by basic, Aug 10, 2010.

Share This Page

More threads by basic
  1. basic

    Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2010
    Threads:
    44
    Messages:
    451
    Likes Received:
    89
    Trophy Points:
    572
    MBTI:
    ROFL
    Enneagram:
    5w6 sp/so/sx
    What I am about to say is only dealing with those who consider themselves religious and are "healthily" religious. I am not considering those who consider themselves agnostic or "sort of religious."

    I have come to realize that there are those who are religious in an "external" sense and/or an "internal" sense. That is to say, one's notion of a higher power and/or set of rules (ethics) either comes from an external source (a holy book, religious community) or from an internal source (reflection, intuition
     
  2. just me

    just me GONE

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Threads:
    220
    Messages:
    12,403
    Featured Threads:
    19
    Likes Received:
    7,490
    Trophy Points:
    1,121
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    not here
    MBTI:
    infj
    Enneagram:
    6w5
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  3. TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Threads:
    245
    Messages:
    9,350
    Featured Threads:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2,217
    Trophy Points:
    966
    MBTI:
    ^.^
    Enneagram:
    .
    religion always starts internally, imo. external symbols like holy books, buildings, rituals etc. are just an extension of the internal emotion of being close to God. those who lose their faith when they lose their attachment to "external religion" probably didn't have it to begin with.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  4. Odyne

    Odyne ===========
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2009
    Threads:
    156
    Messages:
    6,090
    Featured Threads:
    7
    Likes Received:
    6,843
    Trophy Points:
    887
    MBTI:
    Enneagram:
    Hmm, not necessarily. There are those who are born in a society where the majority follows a certain religion, and at one point the religion is no longer viewed as a close relationship with God, but rather traditions and social conduct to adhere to. That's how I understood it when he said "External".

    When he said "Internal", I thought of those who were already spiritual on some level and have developed their own values and morals and then came across a religion that supports that system and felt that it fits them best. So they believed in everything else that came with it.

    I've come across both of those kinds, and you sure can notice the difference in how each practices their religion and how much of it they believe in and apply to their everyday lives.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  5. NeverAmI

    NeverAmI Satisclassifaction
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Threads:
    197
    Messages:
    8,794
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    949
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFP
    Enneagram:
    5w4
    I think the religious or spiritual mind requires both. This 'external' reality is fleeting, temporary. There is more beyond than what is here, than what we see. However, both internal and external exist in this moment as we know them.

    The 'external' is valid if it aligns with your one on one relationship with your god. In many religions there is history of lengths of time taken in isolation to increase this internal link, void of external influence, minimizing it as much as possible. If you do believe the holy scriptures or words passed down by others are true, then external can never be separated from internal, they must be intertwined and both taken into account because you gain knowledge from an external source.

    Kierkegaard's philosophy focused at some points about how many are too 'external' and not 'internal' enough, from a Christian standpoint.

    I could imagine a spiritual adviser saying to use the external as a springboard. Follow its guidance to gain a good heart, then use your good heart (and perhaps spiritual queues) for guidance.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  6. OP
    basic

    Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2010
    Threads:
    44
    Messages:
    451
    Likes Received:
    89
    Trophy Points:
    572
    MBTI:
    ROFL
    Enneagram:
    5w6 sp/so/sx
    This is what I believe April means when she says the people who lose their external sense may not have had their internal religion in the first place. Hence those people who grew up religious, or in a religious home but end up becoming agnostic or not religious.

    I bring this up after thinking about my situation with my sister who became religious seemingly out of nowhere. I'll start a new thread on it soon.
     
  7. ~jet

    ~jet Director of Space Exploration

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2010
    Threads:
    30
    Messages:
    1,172
    Likes Received:
    219
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    4w5 or 5w4, so/sp/sx
    Maybe most would call me agnostic, but I do rather hope that god exists and do rather like Jesus' advice on life... BUT, I have no room for organized religion. To me, it is the opposite of faith.

    Faith = trust when you cannot possibly know for sure
    Religion = believe X, Y, and Z or you're out of the club... if you're LUCKY.

    So, I guess I'd classify as internally religious... which is not to say I don't also believe in the bubble-bath that is the mutliverse, evolution, and aliens. Cuz I do.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. OP
    basic

    Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2010
    Threads:
    44
    Messages:
    451
    Likes Received:
    89
    Trophy Points:
    572
    MBTI:
    ROFL
    Enneagram:
    5w6 sp/so/sx
    I would consider your views (in my opinion) almost spirituality of the christian flavor (god, jesus). I went through a phase when I was young where I wanted to believe in a higher power and was somewhat mystical, if you will, and I consider that spirituality of the buddhist flavor since it stemmed from being in a somewhat buddhist home.

    I would consider spirituality to be more internal and organized religion to be external.
     
  9. ~jet

    ~jet Director of Space Exploration

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2010
    Threads:
    30
    Messages:
    1,172
    Likes Received:
    219
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    4w5 or 5w4, so/sp/sx
    Well sure; i was sorta kinda raised on it and appreciate some of the 'viewpoints' given... point was, I don't trust any organized religion not to succumb to the temptations of greed for money, power, etc. And I can't fathom how anyone can suggest there is something you MUST believe or else. Hence my rabid distinction between faith and religion. Not trying to force this on you or anyone else, just trying to describe it to a point where it can be accurately visualized.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Threads:
    245
    Messages:
    9,350
    Featured Threads:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2,217
    Trophy Points:
    966
    MBTI:
    ^.^
    Enneagram:
    .
    yup that's what I meant
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
Loading...

Share This Page