Expressing Fi + Fe

[Gaze]

Fi is considered an internal system of values by which we evaluate incoming information and Fe is considered an external valuing of people or the social for various reasons.

How do you see these functions playing out in your thoughts and specific actions or choices everyday? How do you approach things as a Fi vs. Fe, or as a Fe vs. Fi? I'm interested in application to real world experiences.

To clarify, my question is if you're Fe, how do you see Fe in your thinking and behavior? If you're Fi, how do you see Fi in your thought processes or evaluations?

Fe-Extraverted Feeling: Considering others and responding to them
Expressing positive and negative feelings openly. Disclosing personal details to establish rapport. Pointing out how to attend to needs of others and complaining when others are not considerate. Expressing of warmth, caring and concern and interest in others, which can be misread as suffocating or not attending to a task. Focusing on appropriateness and connectedness.

Fi-Introverted Feeling: Evaluating importance and maintaining congruence
Clarifying what is important. Pointing out contradictions and incongruities between actions and espoused values. Expressing quiet reserve, which is often misread as aloofness. Adamantly insisting on what is important, or what you want or like. Not expressing inner convictions unless important values are comprised.

http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/communication.html

 

[Gaze]

On the other hand, most of the time this process works “in private” and is expressed through actions. It helps us know when people are being fake or insincere or if they are basically good. It is like having an internal sense of the “essence” of a person or a project and reading fine distinctions among feeling tones.
http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/introvertedfeeling.html

Here's an interesting description of Fi. I don't think i can necessarily tell whether someone is being fake or sincere. Not good at feeling out character but i notice traits which are essential to who they are as a person, and i'm very aware of these qualities and how pronounced they are in someone's persona. I can pick up on someone's Fi very quickly, and often try to adjust myself to it. I'm wondering if picking up on Fi is really a Ni activity. But i do notice fine distinctions between feeling tones or vibes, although i can't say i can figure someone out very easily - i do notice things about them; qualities or traits they may think are not obvious to anyone else.

 

[Gaze]

If anyone wants to debate the functions, please start a new thread.

As for this thread, I'm simply looking for specific, everyday examples of Fi vs. Fe depending on which are dominant functions for whoever is posting.

 

[arbygil]

Sorry, Res - honestly, not trying to debate or derail your thread; I was hoping it could bring clarity, but I'll create a different thread for this.

 

[jn56uytrx]

I really dislike the Fe/Fi descriptions that don't just focus on the same definitional format and then switch words for where a focus is switched. My fear is that when the cognitive descriptions are written out more free-form in this way they become too personalized to a certain type of experience and then mislead people who actually do use the functions away from feeling resonance. I once read an Fe description that was abhorrent to me when I was still of the belief that I was INFP. It had a very ESFJ feel. It was largely lack of resonance with some of the personalized Fe/Ni descriptions that kept me in the infp boat for so long. It wasn't so much that I resonated with infp descriptions more, it was that I really felt adamantly opposed to some of the Fe descriptions I read. They were very much about social structure and a materialized nature of social structure. Like caring deeply that everyone be identified by their social titles and feeling compelled to write thank you notes and other such Miss Manners stuff. Very much NOT me. So didn't think I was an Fe user.

That all said, I had an instantly negative reaction to these descriptions that you posted when I saw their nature and then after getting over that I realized I totally related to the Fe one and not so much to Fi. Maybe that's because I'm more secure in being an Ni/Fe user now, or maybe it's because this particular description is just personalized in a way that corresponds more to my Fe experience. Who knows? I'll tell you what I relate to though.

Fe-Extraverted Feeling: Considering others and responding to them
Expressing positive and negative feelings openly. Disclosing personal details to establish rapport. Pointing out how to attend to needs of others and complaining when others are not considerate. Expressing of warmth, caring and concern and interest in others, which can be misread as suffocating or not attending to a task. Focusing on appropriateness and connectedness.

I do think I have a primary mode of taking into consideration what others might be experiencing and responding to them in a way that I believe will either improve a positive experience or mitigate a negative one.

I do think I express positive and negative feelings openly. (though my sense is that I do so far more openly than many here, so I've begun to question this being an infj characteristic)

I had read the disclosing of personal details to establish rapport early on in my infp/infj discernment and it was one thing that I resonated with all along. I very much do this. I am seeking to put others at ease by letting them know they are not alone and establishing common ground from which relationship can be built. I guess it's a relational version of, "I'll show you mine, if you show me yours"

Pointing out how to attend to the needs of others and complaining when others are not considerate...I feel a little shy about commenting on this given my behavior on this forum lately. I'll just let my actions on this one speak for themselves and hopefully I'll fly under the radar.

I don't know if I've ever been read as suffocating or not attending to task (other than by my sons), but I've frequently received commentary on my warmth, caring, and concern/interest in others. I also know I'm flaky in this regard and I think that is due to Fe being auxillary and not dominant. I tend to be intensely interested in people and exhibit this warmth and caring, but I'm not particularly steadfast and loyal to being there all the time. (perhaps why I don't get the suffocating commentary much) I flake out, but then if we cross paths again, I think I pretty much resume warm, caring and concerned/interested. It's my "being present with someone" mode of engagement, but it doesn't always keep me present with them if the engagement naturally dwindles.

I don't know about focus on appropriateness, but if I get rid of my distaste for Miss Manners and consider appropriateness as only what I think will facilitate people's positive experience and diminish their negative one, yeah, I think this is probably true for me. I do focus very much on a sense of connectedness. It's one of my defining qualities, actually.

Fi-Introverted Feeling: Evaluating importance and maintaining congruence
Clarifying what is important. Pointing out contradictions and incongruities between actions and espoused values. Expressing quiet reserve, which is often misread as aloofness. Adamantly insisting on what is important, or what you want or like. Not expressing inner convictions unless important values are comprised.

I don't lack conceptual understanding of these, or fail to see them playing out in my experience to some degree, but they don't have the centrality of experience to me that the Fe description did.

 

[Gaze]

I really dislike the Fe/Fi descriptions that don't just focus on the same definitional format and then switch words for where a focus is switched. My fear is that when the cognitive descriptions are written out more free-form in this way they become too personalized to a certain type of experience and then mislead people who actually do use the functions away from feeling resonance. I once read an Fe description that was abhorrent to me when I was still of the belief that I was INFP. It had a very ESFJ feel. It was largely lack of resonance with some of the personalized Fe/Ni descriptions that kept me in the infp boat for so long. It wasn't so much that I resonated with infp descriptions more, it was that I really felt adamantly opposed to some of the Fe descriptions I read. They were very much about social structure and a materialized nature of social structure. Like caring deeply that everyone be identified by their social titles and feeling compelled to write thank you notes and other such Miss Manners stuff. Very much NOT me. So didn't think I was an Fe user.

That all said, I had an instantly negative reaction to these descriptions that you posted when I saw their nature and then after getting over that I realized I totally related to the Fe one and not so much to Fi. Maybe that's because I'm more secure in being an Ni/Fe user now, or maybe it's because this particular description is just personalized in a way that corresponds more to my Fe experience. Who knows? I'll tell you what I relate to though.



I do think I have a primary mode of taking into consideration what others might be experiencing and responding to them in a way that I believe will either improve a positive experience or mitigate a negative one.

I do think I express positive and negative feelings openly. (though my sense is that I do so far more openly than many here, so I've begun to question this being an infj characteristic)

I had read the disclosing of personal details to establish rapport early on in my infp/infj discernment and it was one thing that I resonated with all along. I very much do this. I am seeking to put others at ease by letting them know they are not alone and establishing common ground from which relationship can be built. I guess it's a relational version of, "I'll show you mine, if you show me yours"

Pointing out how to attend to the needs of others and complaining when others are not considerate...I feel a little shy about commenting on this given my behavior on this forum lately. I'll just let my actions on this one speak for themselves and hopefully I'll fly under the radar.

I don't know if I've ever been read as suffocating or not attending to task (other than by my sons), but I've frequently received commentary on my warmth, caring, and concern/interest in others. I also know I'm flaky in this regard and I think that is due to Fe being auxillary and not dominant. I tend to be intensely interested in people and exhibit this warmth and caring, but I'm not particularly steadfast and loyal to being there all the time. (perhaps why I don't get the suffocating commentary much) I flake out, but then if we cross paths again, I think I pretty much resume warm, caring and concerned/interested. It's my "being present with someone" mode of engagement, but it doesn't always keep me present with them if the engagement naturally dwindles.

I don't know about focus on appropriateness, but if I get rid of my distaste for Miss Manners and consider appropriateness as only what I think will facilitate people's positive experience and diminish their negative one, yeah, I think this is probably true for me. I do focus very much on a sense of connectedness. It's one of my defining qualities, actually.



I don't lack conceptual understanding of these, or fail to see them playing out in my experience to some degree, but they don't have the centrality of experience to me that the Fe description did.

Yeah, this is the kind of analysis which i think is helpful. I think it helps to see the working of the process more clearly in some ways when it can be applied to specific experiences rather than trying to understand it using the generic theoretical descriptions. Describing how these processes work in personal terms makes it more relatable and understandable. I find i learn more from this kind of analysis than the function descriptions.

 

[acd]

I have an example of Fi:

When I was sick I craved chicken noodle soup (despite being a vegetarian.. I figured, ah wtf just this once.)
I asked my boyfriend to go and buy me some.. He refused, because he is a hard-core vegetarian and said, "No meat in my house!"
*That may sound kind of jerky but it's not.. he bought me other 'sick' foods when I asked him to go to the store..and I completely understood that he had an ethical reason why he wouldn't get it for me.

Example of Fe:

A friend of mine is a vegetarian, she's been for years.
YET she buys meat everyday and cooks it for dinner for her son and her husband because they want it.
She just simply doesn't eat it herself.

 

[Gaze]

I have an example of Fi:

When I was sick I craved chicken noodle soup (despite being a vegetarian.. I figured, ah wtf just this once.)
I asked my boyfriend to go and buy me some.. He refused, because he is a hard-core vegetarian and said, "No meat in my house!"
*That may sound kind of jerky but it's not.. he bought me other 'sick' foods when I asked him to go to the store..and I completely understood that he had an ethical reason why he wouldn't get it for me.

Example of Fe:

A friend of mine is a vegetarian, she's been for years.
YET she buys meat everyday and cooks it for dinner for her son and her husband because they want it.
She just simply doesn't eat it herself.

very interesting examples. So, he chose not to compromise his Fi nor yours, while she valued Fe. I remember someone telling me about a woman who didn't eat pork, but she cooked it for her family nevertheless.

 

[acd]

When it comes to closely held values, Fi doesn't compromise. (I'm mot saying Fi users can't or won't or don't ever compromise--it's just on what they feel are important issues.)

Fe seems more willing to make sacrifices--or rather their highest value is keeping things cozy and therefore the user is more willing to set aside personal opinions or attitudes to not make waves.
That's my impression.

 

[Gaze]

When it comes to closely held values, Fi doesn't compromise. (I'm mot saying Fi users can't or won't or don't ever compromise--it's just on what they feel are important issues.)

Fe seems more willing to make sacrifices--or rather their highest value is keeping things cozy and therefore the user is more willing to set aside personal opinions or attitudes to not make waves.
That's my impression.

But i think this changes if you have particular responsibilities such as being a parent or someone in charge of managing other people especially in service oriented industries or professions. At some point, you realize you have to sacrifice your Fi. This is definitely the case for me, where exercising too much Fi made me seem less than a team player, so i had to quickly learn to develop and engage Fe in order to be a more effective leader and work with people - i had to learn to change my thinking to focus more on not what was optimal for me but what was beneficial or helpful from their perspective. It was very difficult to make this transition but it was necessary in the end.

 

[acd]

I don't disagree with that.

 

[Saru Inc]

I've always seen Fe as finding common ground. I'll say "well Res, I do the same thing so blah blah blah" (If I'm trying to make you feel better). While Fi is like... Honestly I have no idea what the hell Fi is. Like, I understand Te better than Fi. I mean, yea I know the textbook definition of it, but not like, what it *is*


I think that Fi tends to be more egalitarian than Fe, it obviously focuses on the individual. Now, the following sentence is just a guess, but Fi will say "Who cares what they say, just be yourself." while Fe will like, try to get you to conform to the group, but at the same time it doesn't. Fe tends to make generalizations, and can leave people in the dust, while Fi doesn't.


Fe is the function that says "all infjs do this"


Fi is the function that says "don't say that! all infjs are different!"

 

[Nixie]

I think [MENTION=3156]saru[/MENTION]; makes a good point about Fi
I do express that sentiment quite a bit. I think it is much more valuable to be true to you sense of inner self than to make others happy. In my cognitive function tests I score really low on Fe. I have to practice making affirmitive gestures and words to others. I don't really do this from Fe though. I tell myself that others value this expression and if I wish to convey appreciation or whatever, this is the method best used. Otherwise, my Fi tells me that unless actively working against me or expressing hurt, I don't need to bother with you. I rarely get caught up in thinking or feeling that others are worried about me or should be worried about me.

 

[Morgain]

I have an example of Fi:

When I was sick I craved chicken noodle soup (despite being a vegetarian.. I figured, ah wtf just this once.)
I asked my boyfriend to go and buy me some.. He refused, because he is a hard-core vegetarian and said, "No meat in my house!"
*That may sound kind of jerky but it's not.. he bought me other 'sick' foods when I asked him to go to the store..and I completely understood that he had an ethical reason why he wouldn't get it for me.

For me this is an odd reaction and I would not connect it with Fi. My reaction would be this. You are a serious vegetarian but somehow despite your disappetite for meat your body asked you for meat when you where sick. I would think it is then best for you to eat meat. It is better to follow your hunches then to get stuck because of a rule you have put upon yourself

The way I see Fi is that it is an almost unconscious knowing for what is right or wrong for me. I don't have firm believes or habits and I can explore all sights to a story. But at some times someone does something, says something are ask something from me and I feel inside myself a block. Something that I'm not much aware of holds me back or gives me a nasty feeling that says "this is not ok" and when I feel excited and a "yes" inside I know I'm going in the right direction. It is like waking in a maze blindfolded and Fi is your hands leading you in the right direction.

the best example of this is when I was searching for a job. There where two companies where I could start. The first gave me everything: fixed contract, lot of benefits, salary was negotiable, possibilties for promotion. The second was an interim contract. Although the first was the most sensible one I was more drawn to the second one. I couldn't explain why I wanted to work for the second. It was something inside of me that guided me to the second company. I took the job at the second company. It was like coming home, I loved it at once, still love it very much, I have now a fixed contract and just got promoted. For me it was Fi leading me in the right direction

 

[Morgain]

But i think this changes if you have particular responsibilities such as being a parent or someone in charge of managing other people especially in service oriented industries or professions. At some point, you realize you have to sacrifice your Fi. This is definitely the case for me, where exercising too much Fi made me seem less than a team player, so i had to quickly learn to develop and engage Fe in order to be a more effective leader and work with people - i had to learn to change my thinking to focus more on not what was optimal for me but what was beneficial or helpful from their perspective. It was very difficult to make this transition but it was necessary in the end.

This makes me think that you see Fi as being selfish and Fe as taking care of others. I don't think it is this way.

I think it is more like Fe makes decisions that seems best for the group while Fi makes decisions that are best in a more universal sense. In this decission making Fi doesn't only take into acount what is best for itself but also what is best for the group.

Fe: if the group says this is best Fe believe it is best, even though it is just to keep the group together
Fi: if the group says this is best doesn't mean it is best. If Fi decides that it is not best for the group, it will try to redirect the group and if the group doesn't listen it will has to decide whether to follow the group and go against its hunches or to leave the group behind.
This doesn't mean that Fi never can follow a group. It will follow unless the groups direction feels to much "wrong" to Fi.

For me it is difficult to follow the group just to keep harmony if I don't agree. I think I turn my back to the group to soon when it is about minor disagreements especially in the past. But when I group does something that feels completely rotten inside, I really will not follow them.

 

[Gaze]

This makes me think that you see Fi as being selfish and Fe as taking care of others. I don't think it is this way.

I think it is more like Fe makes decisions that seems best for the group while Fi makes decisions that are best in a more universal sense. In this decission making Fi doesn't only take into acount what is best for itself but also what is best for the group.

Fe: if the group says this is best Fe believe it is best, even though it is just to keep the group together
Fi: if the group says this is best doesn't mean it is best. If Fi decides that it is not best for the group, it will try to redirect the group and if the group doesn't listen it will has to decide whether to follow the group and go against its hunches or to leave the group behind.
This doesn't mean that Fi never can follow a group. It will follow unless the groups direction feels to much "wrong" to Fi.

For me it is difficult to follow the group just to keep harmony if I don't agree. I think I turn my back to the group to soon when it is about minor disagreements especially in the past. But when I group does something that feels completely rotten inside, I really will not follow them.

i'm not sure i agree. Fact is sometimes the group doesn't want to hear anything else but what it feels good about, so you just go along with it or you leave, which is not always an option. So, i'm not saying Fi is selfish; my point was that Fi usually conflicts with Fe. And so sometimes, if what Fi expresses is not acceptable to the group, even if it is right, it has to compromise and express Fe.

 

[Saru Inc]

I think [MENTION=3156]saru[/MENTION]; makes a good point about Fi
I do express that sentiment quite a bit. I think it is much more valuable to be true to you sense of inner self than to make others happy. In my cognitive function tests I score really low on Fe. I have to practice making affirmitive gestures and words to others. I don't really do this from Fe though. I tell myself that others value this expression and if I wish to convey appreciation or whatever, this is the method best used. Otherwise, my Fi tells me that unless actively working against me or expressing hurt, I don't need to bother with you. I rarely get caught up in thinking or feeling that others are worried about me or should be worried about me.

I wouldn't say Fe is more likely to give affirming values, but I think it's more important for the other person to feel satisfied.


Someone with Fe needs to talk about a problem to find out how they really feel about it. An Fi person usually either just KNOWS, or they just ponder about it.

 

[Morgain]

i'm not sure i agree. Fact is sometimes the group doesn't want to hear anything else but what it feels good about, so you just go along with it or you leave, which is not always an option. So, i'm not saying Fi is selfish; my point was that Fi usually conflicts with Fe. And so sometimes, if what Fi expresses is not acceptable to the group, even if it is right, it has to compromise and express Fe.

sorry I missed your point.

I think it is wrong from the group to not listen to anything else but what it feels good about
I would listen to what others feel good about and would consider a way to make all happy.
I group that doesn't listen is not worth following

in theory. In practice I have compromised but always felt bad about it.

I don't know that if you compromise Fi that it means you express Fe.
You express Fe when your judgements have an external base
when you compromise Fi your judgements still have an internal base but you decide to not follow them to avoid friction.


anyway, how I see Fi is like Lenore Thompson wrote "Introverted Feeling prompts them to hold unconditional human values". I think Fi core values are universal and not impressionable by or subjective to social standard, rules, expectations, common believes.

 

[Morgain]

I wouldn't say Fe is more likely to give affirming values, but I think it's more important for the other person to feel satisfied.


Someone with Fe needs to talk about a problem to find out how they really feel about it. An Fi person usually either just KNOWS, or they just ponder about it.

can you explain how you use Fe and how it feels like? How do you make decisions?

 

[Oranguh]

This makes me think that you see Fi as being selfish and Fe as taking care of others. I don't think it is this way.

I think it is more like Fe makes decisions that seems best for the group while Fi makes decisions that are best in a more universal sense. In this decission making Fi doesn't only take into acount what is best for itself but also what is best for the group.

Fe: if the group says this is best Fe believe it is best, even though it is just to keep the group together
Fi: if the group says this is best doesn't mean it is best. If Fi decides that it is not best for the group, it will try to redirect the group and if the group doesn't listen it will has to decide whether to follow the group and go against its hunches or to leave the group behind.
This doesn't mean that Fi never can follow a group. It will follow unless the groups direction feels to much "wrong" to Fi.

For me it is difficult to follow the group just to keep harmony if I don't agree. I think I turn my back to the group to soon when it is about minor disagreements especially in the past. But when I group does something that feels completely rotten inside, I really will not follow them.

Exactly! And our Fi ancestors have done a pretty interesting job Imagine a society without Fi.... Just imagine it!In a sense Fi can be seen as the catalyst of change in mentality for humanity!

What's the origin of Fi anyways? People just "knowing" what's right and what's wrong... Where do they get these conclusions? How does this impact society? Or vica versa.... How does contemporary society impact Fi if it does at all... Maybe that's the question we should be asking