Expectations of Friendship

[Ryo]

I know there have been a few discussions on how to deal with toxic friendships but I'm wondering:


How close can/should a healthy adult friendship be and what does it look like?

Can some of you give examples of how you've made this work/handled disappointments?

I feel like it can be dangerous to have high expectations of a friend when the level of commitment isn't backed up by any labels. The word friend describes a wide range of relationships.

 

[Radiantshadow]

Expectations depend on what the other is to someone. What tends to be as far as many go, not bothering with Who or Why. The level of intimacy should be looked at case-by-case, depending on personal factors.

When I am disappointed by someone, I ask myself where expectations for one another (and of myself) were miscommunicated. They regard me differently than I them, obviously. Staying in my box of "shoulds" doesn't change the fact that something is not working and needs to be addressed. If the relationship is truly acidic, poke and prod to discover why before leaving. Staying doesn't do anything, in my experience; "saving" someone isn't realistic, they must be willing on their own first. If there is willingness, and an understanding of why change is needed, then distance yourself a little - after leaving a few pointers/friendly advice so they know you're "there" - to give time for them to come to grips with themselves. If the bond is simply riddled with nebulous holes of miscommunication, sit down with the person and talk about it. Stagnation festers in silence.

 

[invisible]

of course i need people i can trust rather than irresponsible and dishonorable losers, but apart from that i try to have low expectations and commitment. then the glue that holds the relationship together becomes actual shared ideals and experiences and other things in common rather than some sort of agreement scrawled in blood to be best friends or spend a specific amount of time or effort on each other. if they feel like doing something extra for me, or i for them then fine, it probably brings us closer together. but if neither of us are naturally inclined to go further, we have to be content with taking pleasure in each others company and differing or similar ideas, which often works very well, as we may both be very busy, and not have the extra energy to spare. and if each others company is insufficient to sustain the connection, it's naturally time to spend less time on each other. no hard feelings. since i dropped the expectations, i simply take joy in what i do get out of my friendships rather than wanting something more, and my relationships have become much more rewarding.

 

[barbad0s]

Friend = someone who has stuck by me for the long term through thick and thin, where we have shared a lot together, lots of emotions and thoughts and experiences. the more we have shared together, and the more respect we have for each other, and care about each other, the closer of a friend i consider them to be. people who i consider my close friends are the people who i know that life would be lamer if i did not have them around.

 

[MonkeyGrassGirl]

This thread is really interesting to me..in the past year or so, I've had several relatively new friends approach me with complaints about "my level of commitment to our friendship". Which has completely sent me running for the hills, in most cases, because I had no IDEA that they took our really (new, to me, at least) friendship so very seriously. To me, it was still in the "get to know you/form a connection" phase. A couple of semi-deep conversations doesn't mean I'm comfortable with being called 5 times a week or having them drop by my home unannounced or that I'd like to go underwear shopping together. My closest friends are ones who can call if they have big stuff going on, hang out as life allows, and who can make a connection even if life has prevented us from talking for a couple of weeks. I'm *much* more emotionally intimate with these people, and tend to run from those who get disgruntled if I don't respond to a text with a link to an internet meme. I could just be a lousy girlfriend, though. I don't have these issues with guys.

Sudden death to a relationship, for me, comes when two people's lives are so enmeshed, time-wise, that they're staring at one another over half-empty bags of potato chips on the couch, bored, saying, "Whacha wanna do?" "I dunno. <sigh>" I can't abide friendships like that, mostly because I value my privacy.

Emotionally, the only reason I could imagine being "too close" is if the other person becomes so dependent on the other, that they lose their sense of autonomy in the world without the other person or start to lose their own identity/self respect/confidence. If someone needs to call me to figure out which shirt to wear to an outing, literally without being to make a decision for themselves without my official opinion, it's a sign that relational sickness has been reached (for me), and it's time to pull the plug. I try to keep a pulse on rather I'm keeping my own confidence, as well. Possessiveness is another huge deal-breaker. Life is too short for one person to hold another hostage, rather than letting them go be part of the world.

Other than that, I'm capable of forging connections with another person that really almost know no bounds, emotional intimacy-wise. They just have to be the right trustworthy individuals!

 

[Sriracha]

My only expectations: mutual trust, respect and the friendship is reciprocative ... always a two way street. I have friends on various levels ... deep friendships to shallow. It all depends on my sense of what I can share and cannot share. The shallow friendships are dispensable, with little emotional attachment.

I find myself lucky to have at least 5 VERY CLOSE friends that know pretty much everything about me. Friends 1,2 and 3 are sharing the similar experiences, Friend 4 has already been through it and Friend 5 is my reminder that the sun rises every morning. We're not on top of each other. Our needs of interaction are pretty much in sync ... each one being a little different, but there is no problem with the space in between our interactions and we know we are always there for each other. Friend 1 is my age almost exactly and all the others are in their 50s. I tend to gravitate to folks in their 50s b/c there is no bullshyt, they have a better sense of self and they understand "life."

If there are any problems with any of these friends, we speak right away and not harbor ill feelings. If one doesn't want to do something and says "no" ... it's fine, I respect their wishes (and visa versa.)

 

[Nixie]

I think the key is trusting someone, allowing them close to see you for who you are, not who you present to the world. I have always been lucky to have at least one really good friend all my life. Anything more is just a bonus.

I love good conversation with friends, there is nothing better. I typically take "forever and a day" to really trust someone. I am comfortable with setting boundaries without having to have any crappy "level of commitment" talks with anybody. I can accept that others will have their own definition of our friendship and hopefully each of our definitions mesh--sometimes they don't. Normally it is the other person who belives our friendship to be deeper than what I percieve it as being, which can be awkward--especially when they want to ask for favors that I don't feel comfortable with or want to go "underwear shopping" (LOL).

I am willing to be friendly with most people and allow friendships to develop or fade away. I am used to leaving and goodbyes because we didn't live in one place for a long time while I was growing up. Sadly, I had trouble with the "sticking" around part but I am better than I was in my 20s. I am content to allow someone to leave though--if you don't want to be around me, fine...don't. I believe that people come and go for a reason. I mean why would you fight for someone to keep you in their life when they demonstrated they didn't want you there?

I am fiercly loyal to those who I do allow close. I believe in a simple truth--you allow me to be human, and I will allow you to be human. Disappointment comes with the territory. The key is to recognize what your role in the process was before you go jumping down someone else's throat. I don't normally let others know when they hurt me and just file the information away as "lesson learned" and use it to define the boundaries of the relationship. This doesn't mean I don't communicate per se, it means that I am more willing to accept that my hurt feelings belong to me rather than believe that someone else is responsible for them.

 

[grt$5vb]

Expectations depend on what the other is to someone. What tends to be as far as many go, not bothering with Who or Why. The level of intimacy should be looked at case-by-case, depending on personal factors.

When I am disappointed by someone, I ask myself where expectations for one another (and of myself) were miscommunicated. They regard me differently than I them, obviously. Staying in my box of "shoulds" doesn't change the fact that something is not working and needs to be addressed. If the relationship is truly acidic, poke and prod to discover why before leaving. Staying doesn't do anything, in my experience; "saving" someone isn't realistic, they must be willing on their own first. If there is willingness, and an understanding of why change is needed, then distance yourself a little - after leaving a few pointers/friendly advice so they know you're "there" - to give time for them to come to grips with themselves. If the bond is simply riddled with nebulous holes of miscommunication, sit down with the person and talk about it. Stagnation festers in silence.

I really can't agree more with this.

I am still learning. I tend to lower my expectations to the ground so I won't be hurt/disappointed. I really just want love, and respect to be the only expectations in my heart. Everything else is just details, in my opinion. I really don't want to force anything out of anyone, or expect them to rise to the occasion. I mean, who am I to place such heavy restraints on anyone, when I only want freedom, myself.

When I feel agitated, and really infuriated with someone, I find it helps me to have less to regret if I don't write or express those feelings in that state. If I keep busy, and sleep on it, I usually have a whole new outlook the next morning. I look inward at why small things are troubling me, and try to extricate the underlying issues, so as not to punish one for another's mistakes. It's really about me. I am the only person whose behavior I can control.

Generally, I find that those who have put in the time, words, and experiences to build a friendship with me can maintain it with kindness, patience, and not being volatile & angry when I say or do something they don't understand. I really do have an expectation not to be yelled at or called names. Details of respect.

 

[Faye]

I don't know what exactly a friend is.

Usually a 'friend' is someone who wants something from you.

I'd say someone is really a friend when they want to be around you in particular or at least talk to you without wanting anything particular from you.

A good friend is a friend who would be willing to make reasonable sacrifices for your well-being, and of course you for them.

I realize many extroverts have a very different idea of friendship, but I'll leave them to their crazy parties.

 

[This]

I have no exceptions of my friends other than to treat me kindly as I do for them. Other than that there is really nothing else. In fact I don't expect much from anyone, only myself, to expect things from others is to be forever disappointed.

 

[Ryo]

I believe in a simple truth--you allow me to be human, and I will allow you to be human. Disappointment comes with the territory. The key is to recognize what your role in the process was before you go jumping down someone else's throat. I don't normally let others know when they hurt me and just file the information away as "lesson learned" and use it to define the boundaries of the relationship. This doesn't mean I don't communicate per se, it means that I am more willing to accept that my hurt feelings belong to me rather than believe that someone else is responsible for them.

I am still learning. I tend to lower my expectations to the ground so I won't be hurt/disappointed. I really just want love, and respect to be the only expectations in my heart. Everything else is just details, in my opinion. I really don't want to force anything out of anyone, or expect them to rise to the occasion. I mean, who am I to place such heavy restraints on anyone, when I only want freedom, myself.

When I feel agitated, and really infuriated with someone, I find it helps me to have less to regret if I don't write or express those feelings in that state. If I keep busy, and sleep on it, I usually have a whole new outlook the next morning. I look inward at why small things are troubling me, and try to extricate the underlying issues, so as not to punish one for another's mistakes. It's really about me. I am the only person whose behavior I can control.

Thanks all for the insightful responses! I guess the above gets at the heart of my question. I agree with both but how do you balance holding friends accountable and communicating violated expectations but also avoiding blame or drama fests?

 

[grt$5vb]

Hmm... I guess I expect friends to hold themselves accountable. If it is minor irritations, I will tell them about it, but something huge, I will back off, and retreat, and they will have to approach me to discuss. If I see no intent to change a repeated unacceptable behavior, I will be done. Actions speak louder than words for me. I may be convinced to sympathize with their situation, but if the pattern has shown me they have no desire to help themselves out of their bad behavior, I am of no use to them, nor do I prefer to stay and absorb their apathy, justification, and other toxins. I detach & move along. When some years have passed I will try to reconnect, and see what life has taught each of us, but, sometimes we are still not able to coexist.

I am not suggesting this is the best way, or the right way.

Also, to directly answer your last two questions, from my perspective, you can't avoid drama with some types, because they thrive on being right, excitement, and/or negative attention. I try not to use blaming statements, or make accusations. I use the term, "I feel that this will continue", or "It feels like I have been mislead here," etc. Then if they do not get infuriated, and still want to work through it, I will let them state their case, and see if we can come to a mutual understanding of what hurts each of us, and what our needs are.

 

[Nixie]

[MENTION=4383]Ryo[/MENTION]

I dunno about holding "friends accountable". I mean, I guess I just look at it much more skeptically in the first place. The fact that you can rely on someone who cares about you outside your family has limits. When someone consistently exceeds that expectation of care, every iota is a gift and precious. I give what I expect in return. It isn't returned, I adjust my inner diologue and expectations. People aren't beholden to you and you aren't beholden to them. Friendship is a bond that brings warmth, comfort and the sense that someone in the world cares about you and is trying to understand you--there aren't any scales to measure that effectively. It is all done with your heart.

 

[AzulSoul]

Usually a 'friend' is someone who wants something from you.

So true, I'm not sure how exactly to define true friendship... but in my opinion a test of true friendship is that the person will stick with you when doing so can cause them no material gain or even material loss. Friendship is something that transcends the material plane, much like a sexual relationship/

 

[barbad0s]

I dunno about holding "friends accountable". I mean, I guess I just look at it much more skeptically in the first place. The fact that you can rely on someone who cares about you outside your family has limits. When someone consistently exceeds that expectation of care, every iota is a gift and precious. I give what I expect in return. It isn't returned, I adjust my inner diologue and expectations. People aren't beholden to you and you aren't beholden to them. Friendship is a bond that brings warmth, comfort and the sense that someone in the world cares about you and is trying to understand you--there aren't any scales to measure that effectively. It is all done with your heart.

Yeah, that's how I see it too. My expectations and behaviour are tailored to my relationship with each person. I don't feel like anyone has the responsibility to act any certain way towards me in this world. I don't expect people to be kind or appease me, so every time they do I see it as a favour.

 

[etselec]

I am fiercly loyal to those who I do allow close. I believe in a simple truth--you allow me to be human, and I will allow you to be human. Disappointment comes with the territory. The key is to recognize what your role in the process was before you go jumping down someone else's throat. I don't normally let others know when they hurt me and just file the information away as "lesson learned" and use it to define the boundaries of the relationship. This doesn't mean I don't communicate per se, it means that I am more willing to accept that my hurt feelings belong to me rather than believe that someone else is responsible for them.

I definitely agree with this. I don't like to lose friendships, but I will quietly ditch someone if they cross too many of my boundaries. For example, I had an ENFJ friend who was really a great, bolstering, vibrant person who gave me a lot of pats on the back and helped my self esteem tremendously, and we got very close very quickly. Then she started calling me all the time and planning things that we would do together, including shopping (which I HATE to do with other women, fwiw - just let me get in and out of this crowded mall as quickly as humanly possible, thank you very much.) She never understood why I wouldn't do absolutely everything with her, never understood my introversion, would bully me into doing things with her, and finally I got tired of it and stopped answering her calls. Now, that's a fairly passive-aggressive way of ending a friendship, but there were other circumstances involved here where she was going to be moving anyways, so it's likely the friendship would have ended anyways.
And I do think my reaction to her attempts to engage me are fully my own reactions for which I am responsible, so I don't really blame her - it was just a difference in expectations from friendship. The right thing to do here would have been to sit her down and talk out why things weren't working for me and explain about my need for space, and at some point I did make an attempt at that but she thought I was being stingy and absurd, so what the hey. Sometimes things just don't work out, and you have to let go.

 

[Ryo]

@Ryo

I dunno about holding "friends accountable". I mean, I guess I just look at it much more skeptically in the first place. The fact that you can rely on someone who cares about you outside your family has limits. When someone consistently exceeds that expectation of care, every iota is a gift and precious. I give what I expect in return. It isn't returned, I adjust my inner diologue and expectations. People aren't beholden to you and you aren't beholden to them. Friendship is a bond that brings warmth, comfort and the sense that someone in the world cares about you and is trying to understand you--there aren't any scales to measure that effectively. It is all done with your heart.

You're right. I've been told that I give up on friends and leave the relationship too easily without having the courage to communicate problems. Like they don't even know there's a problem and then I'm out. But when I've tried to communicate, it usually turns into a drama fest. I'm having trouble finding the middle ground. I'm inclined to just redefine boundaries as you've said when there's a disappointment but then what's the role of feedback? Isn't it important? Especially for old friends that you don't want to just let go. What if there's an issue that really bothers you that they legitimately don't know about?

 

[Nixie]

I would say the problem lies with you then. How else do you speak with those you love but with your heart and the words just flow and you feel validated and all that other crap? I would hazard a guess that you tend to "hold" onto stuff rather than just have your piece and go on. That way, everything builds on top of the past hurt and you begin to feel like a martyr for "putting" up with so much rather than letting it go and really clearing the air. You either fail to be honest about what is bugging you or pretend to let the hurt go but really didn't. I am content to be wrong, but that would by my guess.

 

[Ryo]

I would say the problem lies with you then. How else do you speak with those you love but with your heart and the words just flow and you feel validated and all that other crap? I would hazard a guess that you tend to "hold" onto stuff rather than just have your piece and go on. That way, everything builds on top of the past hurt and you begin to feel like a martyr for "putting" up with so much rather than letting it go and really clearing the air. You either fail to be honest about what is bugging you or pretend to let the hurt go but really didn't. I am content to be wrong, but that would by my guess.

Yeah that's about right. Makes sense. Thanks!

 

[GracieRuth]

Begin each relationship with the assumption that the other will be kind, loyal, etc. Then basically volley back whatever they dish out, tit for tat. This is known as reciprical altruism. You may have some times where the person you trusted betrays you, but over the course of your life, you will have fewer problems than people using other strategies.