Enforcing your beliefs onto others

TinyBubbles

TinyBubbles

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If you believe all people have a right to their own beliefs, would it be wrong NOT to stop those people who enforce their beliefs onto others (such as religious reformers?). And if you do, wouldn't you be being a hypocrite?
 
April said:
If you believe all people have a right to their own beliefs, would it be wrong NOT to stop those people who enforce their beliefs onto others (such as religious reformers?). And if you do, wouldn't you be being a hypocrite?
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Nah, it wouldn't be a moral obligation to stop others from pushing their views. People can push their views all they want, but that doesn't mean those listening have to accept those views. It's still their choice as to what they believe.
 
Razare said:
Nah, it wouldn't be a moral obligation to stop others from pushing their views. People can push their views all they want, but that doesn't mean those listening have to accept those views. It's still their choice as to what they believe.
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Really? If a person's in your face 24/7 preaching the word of god, just the constant exposure to him has to shift your views somewhat
 
I'm more concerned with those domineering Te dominant people - ESTJs and ENTJs. Ugh, they get on my last nerve with their insistence on delegating orders, edicts, and mandates to everyone.

I'd much rather listen to someone trying to push what they believe than someone insisting that I do this or that. Beliefs can be discussed and debated. Telling one of these Te dominant people no is tantamount to an act of war. Every time they get started with that attitude, I know a battle is right around the corner. It gets so old.
 
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April said:
If you believe all people have a right to their own beliefs, would it be wrong NOT to stop those people who enforce their beliefs onto others (such as religious reformers?). And if you do, wouldn't you be being a hypocrite?
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70 years ago a guy by the name of Adolf Hitler thought that only people who met certain criteria were allowed to live. His beliefs killed over 11 million people.

I don't know, maybe it just depends how they're imposing their beliefs onto others. Other than that, I don't have a really good answer.
 
April said:
Really? If a person's in your face 24/7 preaching the word of god, just the constant exposure to him has to shift your views somewhat
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You know... I've seen this more than a few times from INTPs, and I'm starting to wonder if it is an INTP vs ESFJ thing, because when the INTPs who complain about religion complain about it, they're very often complaining about things that seem very much like ESFJ behaviors, more than religion. Just thought I'd drop that out there... maybe it's not religion so much as the people who are being dicks about it that is the problem because ESFJs can really push the envelope on being overbearing religious dickheads, and since INTPs are the exact opposite type... it seems like that could be even more antagonistic to you guys.
 
Last Dawn said:
70 years ago a guy by the name of Adolf Hitler thought that only people who met certain criteria were allowed to live. His beliefs killed over 11 million people.

I don't know, maybe it just depends how they're imposing their beliefs onto others. Other than that, I don't have a really good answer.
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This. Actions may speak louder than words but when words instill a value actions can flow endlessly from them.

I call people out one being pushy about their beliefs. It can get very hypocritical very quickly as there exists many grey areas.
 
VH said:
You know... I've seen this more than a few times from INTPs, and I'm starting to wonder if it is an INTP vs ESFJ thing, because when the INTPs who complain about religion complain about it, they're very often complaining about things that seem very much like ESFJ behaviors, more than religion. Just thought I'd drop that out there... maybe it's not religion so much as the people who are being dicks about it that is the problem because ESFJs can really push the envelope on being overbearing religious dickheads, and since INTPs are the exact opposite type... it seems like that could be even more antagonistic to you guys.
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interesting observation. didn't really have personality types in mind when i wrote this though, just wondering about the consistency of belief systems :P and my mother is an esfj, i've got nothing against them :)
 
kavalan said:
This. Actions may speak louder than words but when words instill a value actions can flow endlessly from them.

I call people out one being pushy about their beliefs. It can get very hypocritical very quickly as there exists many grey areas.
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but that's just it, don't they have a right to be pushy? forcing them into not being pushy seems like you're doing exactly what they're doing xD
 
April said:
interesting observation. didn't really have personality types in mind when i wrote this though, just wondering about the consistency of belief systems :P and my mother is an esfj, i've got nothing against them :)
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I'm not assuming that INTPs have anything against ESFJs in general... just that it's possible there are certain behaviors that could be antagonistic in them, especially to INTPs, and the overbearing religiousy thing is one that tends to come from ESFJs... obviously not all ESFJs, nor all religious ESFJs... just that it's possible.
 
April said:
If you believe all people have a right to their own beliefs, would it be wrong NOT to stop those people who enforce their beliefs onto others (such as religious reformers?). And if you do, wouldn't you be being a hypocrite?
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Enforcing your views on others is known as politics. Whenever you vote you are pushing your views. You can also enforce your views by what products you buy and where. In fact, if you are being true to yourself, then it is almost impossible not to enforce your views over others.

The question isn't whether it is right or wrong to enforce views on others. The question is whether it is justified to do so. You have a legitimate right to vote. You have a legitimate right to decide where you spend your money. You do not have a legitimate right to tell others what they have to believe.
 
VH said:
I'm not assuming that INTPs have anything against ESFJs in general... just that it's possible there are certain behaviors that could be antagonistic in them, especially to INTPs, and the overbearing religiousy thing is one that tends to come from ESFJs... obviously not all ESFJs, nor all religious ESFJs... just that it's possible.
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oh you're right, that kind of behavior could definitely be more antagonistic to intps, since we kind of assume everyone should have the freedom of choice (since autonomy is so important to us). i didn't realize esfjs tended to be religiously overbearing, but if they are, i can certainly see how you'd come to such a conclusion :)
 
April said:
oh you're right, that kind of behavior could definitely be more antagonistic to intps, since we kind of assume everyone should have the freedom of choice (since autonomy is so important to us). i didn't realize esfjs tended to be religiously overbearing, but if they are, i can certainly see how you'd come to such a conclusion :)
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I wouldn't say 'tend' to, but Fe can be very attracted to religion and spirituality and Si can be very attracted to traditionalism. Put the two together and there is a lot of potential for overbearing religiosity... and the glaring examples I've seen of this often appear to be very vocal ESFJs. Obviously, these are exceptions, not rules, but the possibility exists. Si can be very unyielding and Fe can be quite passionate in the 'us vs them' sense, and the E side of things can make such an individual very outgoing about these views.

...and when someone goes too far with this sort of thing it's going to be offensive to most people, but especially to an INTP.

But, this is just one of the downsides to a type. Just like every other type, there are a lot of upsides to ESFJs. Nobody has got your back like an ESFJ, and you'll have trouble finding a more loyal friend or better caregiver.
 
They have the right to a belief, they don't have a right to speak in my presence.
 
Depends on your metaphysical philosophy. Christians don't have the same foundation as athiests.

Some religous followers believe they are doing someone a favor by attempting to show them the way or performing 'God's work.' Atheists think it is a nuisance, and vice versa when the atheists attempt to show others.
 
April said:
but that's just it, don't they have a right to be pushy? forcing them into not being pushy seems like you're doing exactly what they're doing xD
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bad wording is bad. I don't berate them but rather bring it to their attention. Usually its enough to make them leave me alone as i wish to not be disturbed. If they continue to pressure me or others around me I will break rule and tear em down. But only a few people have pushed me that far.
 
VH said:
Well, in America we have Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion, which means no one has freedom from religion.
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I'm not in America. I'm in the Empire of Shut the Fuck Up if you want to convert me to a religion or justify your actions to me with religious "reasoning".
 
However, Wouldn't I therefore have the religious right to force Satanism onto them?
 
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