Empathic Concern? or Personal Distress?

[La Sagna]

In my recent research on empathy I have discovered the definition of a couple of different types of empathy that have helped me find definitions about a difference that I have notice between myself and others who are very empathic also.


Affective empathy can be subdivided into the following scales:

Empathic concern: sympathy and compassion for others in response to their suffering.

Personal distress: self-centered feelings of discomfort and anxiety in response to another's suffering.


My friend who is an ESFJ is very empathic and really feels for people, but her reaction to it is that she gets overwhelmed and can't handle them. This means that I usually don't bother confiding in her about anything that would cause an emotional reaction.

I have a difficult time relating to that, because I am very empathic and can absolutly feel other's pain but I don't let it overwhelm me. I feel that if I react in a dramatic emotional way to other people's pain then I am likely making things worse for them and my first thought is trying to help them in some way.

I guess my friend has a 'Personal Distress' empathic reaction and I have an 'Empathic Concern' type of reaction.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[muir]

I think an interesting thing to look into would be why the 'personal distress' person feels discomfort and anxiety at the suffering of another

My guess would be that they are not wanting to face up to the cause of the distress on a conscious level and are trying to bury their head in the sand instead

The discomfort they feel is the cognitive dissonance that results from not facing reality

 

[Gaze]

I used to react with personal distress but also realized it didn't help and only made the person more nervous or anxious, So, I remained calm and let them guide my reaction to what's happening. Especially in crisis situations, remaining calm is key. If you freak out, it makes everyone feel more panicked.

 

[Skarekrow]

Are we talking your run of the mill empathy here @La Sagna or someone who would be considered an “empath” who can truly feel the emotions of others?
More and more in my life lately I've been questioning if there is more to what I am feeling than just my reaction to what I picking up with my senses. There have been times where as I walk past someone, or pass in a car, etc... I will get a very uncomfortable, dark, feeling. I can’t explain it, perhaps I have finally gone off the deep end and should be committed....lol. But I feel there is something more to it, I feel I am picking up on something more than what my normal sensory perception can show me. It’s all very random, and very unexpected when it happens. I guess I would have to find someone who would have this reaction in me and then try passing them a second time....although, if it is their emotions that I am picking up on, those could change...hmmmm....*shrug* dunno how you would go about testing such a thing.
Anyhow, sorry if I took your thread in a direction you didn’t want....lol.

 

[Gaze]

Are we talking your run of the mill empathy here @La Sagna or someone who would be considered an “empath” who can truly feel the emotions of others?
More and more in my life lately I've been questioning if there is more to what I am feeling than just my reaction to what I picking up with my senses. There have been times where as I walk past someone, or pass in a car, etc... I will get a very uncomfortable, dark, feeling. I can’t explain it, perhaps I have finally gone off the deep end and should be committed....lol. But I feel there is something more to it, I feel I am picking up on something more than what my normal sensory perception can show me. It’s all very random, and very unexpected when it happens. I guess I would have to find someone who would have this reaction in me and then try passing them a second time....although, if it is their emotions that I am picking up on, those could change...hmmmm....*shrug* dunno how you would go about testing such a thing.
Anyhow, sorry if I took your thread in a direction you didn’t want....lol.

What you're experiencing sounds like emotional empathy:

When it comes to the right leader for a crisis, cognitive empathy alone seems insufficient . Then, Paul told me, there’s “emotional empathy,” – when you feel physically along with the other person, as though their emotions were contagious. This emotional contagion, social neuroscience tells us, depends in large part on the mirror neuron system (see Chapter Three in Social Intelligence). Emotional empathy makes someone well-attuned to another person’s inner emotional world, a plus in any of a wide range of callings, from sales to nursing – let alone for any parent or lover.

One downside of emotional empathy occurs when people lack the ability to manage their own distressing emotions can be seen in the psychological exhaustion that leads to burnout. The purposeful detachment cultivated by those in medicine offers one way to inoculate against burnout. But the danger arises when detachment leads to indifference, rather than to well-calibrated caring.

http://www.danielgoleman.info/three-kinds-of-empathy-cognitive-emotional-compassionate/

 

[muir]

Are we talking your run of the mill empathy here @La Sagna or someone who would be considered an “empath” who can truly feel the emotions of others?
More and more in my life lately I've been questioning if there is more to what I am feeling than just my reaction to what I picking up with my senses. There have been times where as I walk past someone, or pass in a car, etc... I will get a very uncomfortable, dark, feeling. I can’t explain it, perhaps I have finally gone off the deep end and should be committed....lol. But I feel there is something more to it, I feel I am picking up on something more than what my normal sensory perception can show me. It’s all very random, and very unexpected when it happens. I guess I would have to find someone who would have this reaction in me and then try passing them a second time....although, if it is there emotions that I am picking up on, those could change...hmmmm....*shrug* dunno how you would go about testing such a thing.
Anyhow, sorry if I took your thread in a direction you didn’t want....lol.

I don't think you have gone off the deep end

I think we are going to see revelations in our time about the true nature of reality. These revelations will explain psychic phenomena and other 'paranormal' phenomena

I think that our reality is actually a field of information. We pick up this information through our 5 senses which decode the information into a 3D seemingly solid reality

There are scientific experiments such as the double slit experiment that show our reality is not solid unless observed

We are living in a holographic reality

We are part of a wider consciousness which David Ike would call 'the cosmic internet' but which others might call 'cosmic consciousness'

Further to this we can only see a very narrow band of light which scientists call 'visible light'. We cannot see outside this. For example we cannot see infra red. It is the belief of Ike and many others that outwith the band of light there are other forms of intelligence which are affecting us. We are practically blind, in a physical sense, in this universe...we are like moles

These discarnate entities can synch with a persons etheric body and control them. this is called in religious language 'possession'

if you look into the occult world and into occult orders and you look at what the people at the top are doing they are communicating with entities. Psychologists and psychiatrists might use different language to describe these processes! For example Jung thought that the parallel worlds that Alice Bailey was describing were all in her head, however magicians like Lon Milo Duquette will say: ''yes all these things are in your mind, but don't underestimate how large your mind is!'

Its worth bareing in mind that Alice Baileys books have been promoted through a company called 'the Lucis Trust' which was originally called 'the lucifer trust'. This company has been given special status by the UN council

Christians and jews called these entities 'angels' and 'demons', islam calls them djinn and the gnostics called them 'the archons', the matrix films called them 'agent smiths'!

I'd better take this discussion over to your merkabah thread if that is ok because although this belief in archons most definately does tie into the wider subject of 'empathy' or lack thereof i know that someone will give me a slap on the wrist for talking about weird stuff in what is probably a thread that wants to view the world purely through the filter of the field of modern psychology

 

[La Sagna]

I think an interesting thing to look into would be why the 'personal distress' person feels discomfort and anxiety at the suffering of another

My guess would be that they are not wanting to face up to the cause of the distress on a conscious level and are trying to bury their head in the sand instead

The discomfort they feel is the cognitive dissonance that results from not facing reality

I think you are right. My dad is also an ESFJ and his way of dealing with my mom dying was to move to a different town and start a new life. He is barely in our lives even though he used to be the most present and hands-on dad and grandad that I knew. I think he misses my mom more when he is around us so he stays away most of the time.

 

[La Sagna]

I used to react with personal distress but also realized it didn't help and only made the person more nervous or anxious, So, I remained calm and let them guide my reaction to what's happening. Especially in crisis situations, remaining calm is key. If you freak out, it makes everyone feel more panicked.

Here's an illustration of this:

I like to use the example of a small boat crossing the Gulf of Siam. In Vietnam, there are many people, called boat people, who leave the country in small boats. Often the boats are caught in rough seas or storms, the people may panic, and boats may sink. But if even one person aboard can remain calm, lucid, knowing what to do and what not to do, he or she can help the boat survive. His or her expression - face, voice - communicates clarity and calmness, and people have trust in that person. They will listen to what he or she says. One such person can save the lives of many.

This is so true.

 

[Skarekrow]

What you're experiencing sounds like emotional empathy:



http://www.danielgoleman.info/three-kinds-of-empathy-cognitive-emotional-compassionate/

Yes....firstly, I DO work in medicine and have a very good practice of ‘turning off my emotions’ in order to get the job done....I have been able to do this for the past 15 years. This is different altogether, sometimes I am not even looking at the person....I have felt this way and then felt obligated to turn around only to see someone there. Sometimes it is slight, sometimes it is a very “evil” feeling....I don’t know how else to describe it. I still don’t know if this is a true feeling or something wholly concocted in my head....lol. There have even been a couple of times where I’m sitting watching TV on on the computer and I will pick up on this feeling....maybe I should take some Valium and Lithium....lolol.

I don't think you have gone off the deep end

I think we are going to see revelations in our time about the true nature of reality. These revelations will explain psychic phenomena and other 'paranormal' phenomena

I think that our reality is actually a field of information. We pick up this information through our 5 senses which decode the information into a 3D seemingly solid reality

There are scientific experiments such as the double slit experiment that show our reality is not solid unless observed

We are living in a holographic reality

We are part of a wider consciousness which David Ike would call 'the cosmic internet' but which others might call 'cosmic consciousness'

Further to this we can only see a very narrow band of light which scientists call 'visible light'. We cannot see outside this. For example we cannot see infra red. It is the belief of Ike and many others that outwith the band of light there are other forms of intelligence which are affecting us

These discarnate entities can synch with a persons etheric body and control them. this is called in religious language 'possession'

if you look into the occult world and into occult orders and you look at what the people at the top are doing they are communicating with entities. Psychologists and psychaitrists might use different language to describe these process! For example Jung thought that the parallel worlds that Alice Bailey was describing was all in her head, however magicians like Lon Milo Duquette will say: ''yes all these things are in your mind, but don't underestimate how large your mind is!'

Christians and jews called these entities 'angels' and 'demons', islam calls them djinn and the gnostics called them 'the archons'

I'd better take this discussion over to your merkabah thread if that is ok because although this belief in archons most definately does tie into the wider subject of 'empathy' or lack thereof i know that someone will give me a slap on the wrist for talking about weird stuff in what is probably a thread that wants to view the world purely through the filter of the field of modern psychology

I DO think that there is something more to it....I have seen some things so far in my life that have convinced me that there is more to this reality than just what we see with our own eyes. Things have moved by themselves...violently....and it hasn’t always been when I was by myself, one of my ex-girlfriends was a witness to such an event and it scared the shit out of her....lol....funny thing was, I was more curious than anything....it didn’t really frighten me.
The idea of a holographic universe has always been an intriguing one...perhaps this ‘reality’ is more than what the general population thinks it is.
And yes, perhaps we should take this to my thread....lololol....I don’t want to screw up La Sagna’s thread....lol.
As far as ghosts, demons, and djinn go, I do think that there are other ‘entities’ out there besides ourselves....I can say with about 99% accuracy that I have had a run-in with one or two.
Speaking of Archons....remember that kick-ass computer chess game Archon for the Commodore 64? God that was fun back in the day....lol.

 

[muir]

I think you are right. My dad is also an ESFJ and his way of dealing with my mom dying was to move to a different town and start a new life. He is barely in our lives even though he used to be the most present and hands-on dad and grandad that I knew. I think he misses my mom more when he is around us so he stays away most of the time.

There is also sometimes i think an element of powerlessness

So if the person sees the cause of the other persons distress as unsurmountable ie they can't do anything about it then they begin to experience their empathic feelings as an energy welling up inside them like water behind a dam. It cannot go anywhere ie into helpful action so it manifests as their own personal distress

There is an NLP technique whereby if you keep interupting a person while they are trying to say something to you they will eventually become angry. this is because speech is a form of energetic expression and if they cannot get the energy out it builds and it builds until it pops

A BBC journalist made a documentary where he was looking into scientology. The church sent two people to manage him and his investigations. One of them used this technique on him and he exploded with anger during an interview

The other person has since left the church and went to meet the journalist. he explained to the journalist that the church was indeed using NLP and other techniques as a form of psychic attack on him

[video=youtube;Cr2BijIprqg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr2BijIprqg[/video]

 

[La Sagna]

Are we talking your run of the mill empathy here @La Sagna or someone who would be considered an “empath” who can truly feel the emotions of others?
More and more in my life lately I've been questioning if there is more to what I am feeling than just my reaction to what I picking up with my senses. There have been times where as I walk past someone, or pass in a car, etc... I will get a very uncomfortable, dark, feeling. I can’t explain it, perhaps I have finally gone off the deep end and should be committed....lol. But I feel there is something more to it, I feel I am picking up on something more than what my normal sensory perception can show me. It’s all very random, and very unexpected when it happens. I guess I would have to find someone who would have this reaction in me and then try passing them a second time....although, if it is their emotions that I am picking up on, those could change...hmmmm....*shrug* dunno how you would go about testing such a thing.
Anyhow, sorry if I took your thread in a direction you didn’t want....lol.

I believe that we are all on a continuum from on one end what would be considered an 'empath' to the other end which would be a full-fledged psychopath. Most of us are somewhere in the middle. I know I am way over on the side of the empath.

I can definitly feel the feelings of others that are close to me. I'm not sure that I have felt the feelings of a single random stranger but I do know that one reason I don't like crowds is that I can feel the accumulated energy of everyone in the room and it totally drains me.

I had an opportunity a few years ago to be in a conference room with over 1000 women who are members of an international women's group who's mandate is to help other women in the World who are in difficult circumstances. I noticed in that room that I didn't feel the same negative energy that I usually do in large crowds and I felt empowered rather than drained. My conclusion was that these women had more positive energies overall than an average random crowd. They were generally caring, warm, smart women who wanted to make a difference in the World so that was reflected in the energy in the room.

 

[Skarekrow]

I think you are right. My dad is also an ESFJ and his way of dealing with my mom dying was to move to a different town and start a new life. He is barely in our lives even though he used to be the most present and hands-on dad and grandad that I knew. I think he misses my mom more when he is around us so he stays away most of the time.

My Mom did the same thing after my Dad died back in 2007....we lived in southern CA and she packed up and moved two states away...she said she just couldn’t be in the house where he died, that there were too many memories there. She left me and my Brothers and Sister...she says she regrets it now, moving like that, so suddenly....but she felt that that was what she needed at the time to move on, literally and figuratively. Who am I to question if it wasn’t the right thing for her?

 

[muir]

Speaking of Archons....remember that kick-ass computer chess game Archon for the Commodore 64? God that was fun back in the day....lol.

I've had psychic experiences which are just too accurate to be coincidence so although i am wary about discussing such matters i am open minded when looking into them

That computer game will have been made by powerful coporations. These corproations not only use magically embued talismans as their corporate logos but they also subtly affect in many ways how we think and feel about the world...psychology on the sly...also known as black magick

Saturn is a recurring theme in the occult and we of course have the 'sega saturn' computer consol

 

[Skarekrow]

I believe that we are all on a continuum from on one end what would be considered an 'empath' to the other end which would be a full-fledged psychopath. Most of us are somewhere in the middle. I know I am way over on the side of the empath.

I can definitly feel the feelings of others that are close to me. I'm not sure that I have felt the feelings of a single random stranger but I do know that one reason I don't like crowds is that I can feel the accumulated energy of everyone in the room and it totally drains me.

I had an opportunity a few years ago to be in a conference room with over 1000 women who are members of an international women's group who's mandate is to help other women in the World who are in difficult circumstances. I noticed in that room that I didn't feel the same negative energy that I usually do in large crowds and I felt empowered rather than drained. My conclusion was that these women had more positive energies overall than an average random crowd. They were generally caring, warm, smart women who wanted to make a difference in the World so that was reflected in the energy in the room.

I feel the same way, especially at group functions...in fact, save for one, I haven’t been to anything like that in years....even though, I still get invited to things from people at work.....lol.
I dunno what to think, it’s hard for me to trust my own feelings on this one....I do know that it is totally random. It isn’t like I am feeling stressed or upset or angry and then I displace this onto others. I can be happy-go-lucky, minding my own business when it just about stops me in my tracks. It’s very odd. Also very hard for me to accurately describe....lol.

 

[Gaze]

I'm researching empathy tests:

http://www.noanxiety.com/tests/empathy-test.html
http://www.originalempathytest.com/


[h=4][/h]

 

[La Sagna]

[

QUOTE=muir;718301]There is also sometimes i think an element of powerlessness

So if the person sees the cause of the other persons distress as unsurmountable ie they can't do anything about it then they begin to experience their empathic feelings as an energy welling up inside them like water behind a dam. It cannot go anywhere ie into helpful action so it manifests as their own personal distress

I think what you are saying here is very true. I think my friend can't see past the feelings to ways to try to make things better so she can't handle the helplessness. I can usually see something that I can say or do to try to make things better.

There is an NLP technique whereby if you keep interupting a person while they are trying to say something to you they will eventually become angry. this is because speech is a form of energetic expression and if they cannot get the energy out it builds and it builds until it pops

A BBC journalist made a documentary where he was looking into scientology. The church sent two people to manage him and his investigations. One of them used this technique on him and he exploded with anger during an interview

[/QUOTE]

I can see that. I've been in that situation where I am not allowed to say what I need to say and it is absolutly devastating to me. I have a difficult time getting over that.

 

[sprinkles]

For me empathy is reflecting what others feel regardless of the 'alignment'.

So it not only represents sympathy, it also reflects joy. Happy people make me happy, even strangers. It's some times easy to forget in this world, but just the other day I was reminded when I was out for a walk and a passing lady gave me this beaming, infectious smile, which I felt and reflected. It totally made the rest of my day and recognize how bad of a mood I was in by contrast.

 

[LucyJr]

In my recent research on empathy I have discovered the definition of a couple of different types of empathy that have helped me find definitions about a difference that I have notice between myself and others who are very empathic also.


Affective empathy can be subdivided into the following scales:

Empathic concern: sympathy and compassion for others in response to their suffering.

Personal distress: self-centered feelings of discomfort and anxiety in response to another's suffering.


My friend who is an ESFJ is very empathic and really feels for people, but her reaction to it is that she gets overwhelmed and can't handle them. This means that I usually don't bother confiding in her about anything that would cause an emotional reaction.

I have a difficult time relating to that, because I am very empathic and can absolutly feel other's pain but I don't let it overwhelm me. I feel that if I react in a dramatic emotional way to other people's pain then I am likely making things worse for them and my first thought is trying to help them in some way.

I guess my friend has a 'Personal Distress' empathic reaction and I have an 'Empathic Concern' type of reaction.

What are your thoughts on this?

Interesting thread...

Now that I thinking at me is that I am a bit different. Sometimes I can feel an "emphatic concern" while at times "personal distress", or it is just a weird mix between the two.

Just this morning I remembered passing along one beggar in our city and... I didn't feel anything. I mean, I was concerned for him, I would have compassion, but it was entirely mental. I didn't feel anything, I just knew that person needs compassion and I was concerned for him, but purely mental. Now probably If I would talk to that person for a while, emotion would begin to "create" or to "raise".

But this is not always. Sometimes I do feel emphaty, and very very powerful. It's so powerful that it creates even a physical pain. The last of this "events" I think happened when my granny was sick. I remembered when I saw her on that hospital bed, in her miserable condition, it was like something literary would cut me in the chest, and it was very painful. I know I read a few writters who described this sensation, among them Doistoievski too, and that's why I know I'm not really "crazy".
It didn't last very long, just a few minutes, but it was like a catalyst for compassion or something like that.

What I always wondered, how it is that through emphaty, which is putting yourself in the others shoes, it's born compassion, or mercy in a more traditional way? Because compassion it's not what the other person feels. You don't feel their compassion, because they don't have it. Compassion or mercy is a response to their emotional state, which take place through emphaty...I mean, it's a new feeling, one that its created...

 

[sprinkles]

I've had psychic experiences which are just too accurate to be coincidence so although i am wary about discussing such matters i am open minded when looking into them

That computer game will have been made by powerful coporations. These corproations not only use magically embued talismans as their corporate logos but they also subtly affect in many ways how we think and feel about the world...psychology on the sly...also known as black magick

Saturn is a recurring theme in the occult and we of course have the 'sega saturn' computer consol

Actually powerful corporations didn't make many computer games back then. They do now because they've become mainstream and popular. It was mostly hackers and companies cashing in on what they saw as a fad that they didn't take all that seriously, which is why there were two major video game market crashes, the first in 1977 and the other in 1983.

Back then Electronic Arts was just a fledgling company that had just started, Epyx had only about 200 employees at it's largest, and Free Fall Associates - makers of Archon - was started by some dude and his wife who were former employees of Epyx.

It wasn't until the mid 80's and early 90's when Nintendo and Sega started having their battles that it really became a powerful corporate thing.

 

[muir]

Actually powerful corporations didn't make many computer games back then. They do now because they've become mainstream and popular. It was mostly hackers and companies cashing in on what they saw as a fad that they didn't take all that seriously, which is why there were two major video game market crashes, the first in 1977 and the other in 1983.

Back then Electronic Arts was just a fledgling company that had just started, Epyx had only about 200 employees at it's largest, and Free Fall Associates - makers of Archon - was started by some dude and his wife who were former employees of Epyx.

It wasn't until the mid 80's and early 90's when Nintendo and Sega started having their battles that it really became a powerful corporate thing.

Ok big corporations made the sega saturn

As for the motivations of the game maker for calling it 'archon' you would have to look into what his background is

There are groups behind the corporations that are working with this esoteric stuff who that person may or may not have been involved with eg they did a game called 'starfleet orion' which suggests an interest in occult matters

here is the rather freemasonic symbol for the archon game:

It also had a golem in it which is an old jewish occult idea

The owner of commadore 64 was an aushwitz survivor

There are cubes that feature in the design above...the cube is the symbol of saturn