Does working hard make someone a good person? | INFJ Forum

Does working hard make someone a good person?

Discussion in 'Relationships and Sociology' started by Gaze, Jun 2, 2010.

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  1. Gaze

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    Does working hard make someone a good person?


    Edit: Just to put it in context, I'm not really referring to those situations or cases in which someone is working hard on something unethical or illegal. I assumed that was implied when i posed the question.
     
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    #1 Gaze, Jun 2, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2010
  2. Siamese cat

    Siamese cat Madame Cat strikes again

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    In my opinion no. There could be any number of reasons why someone is working hard and they could or could not be a sign that person is good.

    Let's say that I want to rule the world and be an incarnation of Hitler. Now, I would probably work hard when it comes to that goal, but I probably wouldn't be a good person. This might be an extreme example, and I'm not sure if this discussion is something you had in mind with OP, but this is the first that comes to my mind.
     
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  3. youhemmein

    youhemmein awkward turtle
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    Definitely not.
    Though a good work ethic is a quality a "good" person should hope to possess.
     
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  4. Timeless

    Timeless Community Member

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    No way.

    A thief could be working hard, but does that make him a good person?
    A drug dealer could be working hard, but does that make him a good person?
    A murderer could be working hard, but does that make him a good person?

    All good persons don't work hard either.

    Working hard can be a part of being a good person, but it doesn't make them any less or more of a good person.

    Working hard is like a hammer, and the person holding it can be a good or bad person. The hammer doesn't do anything, but just hammers down.

    I don't know where this is coming from, but my grandparents and father had this mentality that if you work hard, sweat, and suffer, you're a good person. And if you don't, you're not.

    That was a little too black and white for my taste.
     
    #4 Timeless, Jun 2, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2010
  5. Wyote

    Wyote Xenoi
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    Seems to make people crazy more than anything, under the context I believe you are talking about anyway.

    Balance in everything is better.
     
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  6. OP
    Gaze

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    Good points. But just to put it in perspective, I'm not really referring to those cases in which someone is working hard on something unethical or illegal.


    But yet, we treat those who work hard as being better people than those who don't, in our estimation, work as hard as we think they should. This is a common stereotype which is so prevalent that it boggles the mind. I see so many people everyday arguing that because they work hard umpteen hours a week that they are better or more ethical or good than those who don't work as much as they do. Yet, these same people who work hard for their families, associates, or friends will justify bad behavior towards others but think they are good people. They think they're doing someone a huge favor by being good or nice to someone outside of their social circle.

    The nicest and most giving people in the world don't necessarily "work hard" the way everyone else may have to but yet they are ignored or underestimated because they are not proving themselves through "working hard" as defined by the larger culture in which we live.
     
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    #6 Gaze, Jun 2, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2010
  7. mooseman

    mooseman Local Claviger
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    It seems to me that STJs have this "hard work is good" mentality just as deeply rooted as NFJs wants to be nice to other people. We don't even question why we do it. Tell me if you think my generalization is wrong.
     
  8. OP
    Gaze

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    Can't say it's right or wrong because each person is different whatever their type. But i do question the idea that simply being a hard worker makes you a good person. Of course, we know that there are many abusive individuals who work hard, but when they come home they don't treat their families with respect. They are physically, verbally, or emotionally abusive to family members, and use the fact that they are working hard to take care of their families, as an excuse for their behavior.
     
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    #8 Gaze, Jun 2, 2010
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  9. Timeless

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    I see that all the time also.

    And I think it is very limiting.

    When I came home from work happy one day, my grandfather was pissed. "Did you go to work today?"

    When I came home from work stressed out one day, my grandfather was happy. "Working hard huh?"

    Go figure.

    :)

    P.S. He is an ISTJ.
     
    #9 Timeless, Jun 2, 2010
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  10. mooseman

    mooseman Local Claviger
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    I agree. Most people here seem to. That made me curious about the typology aspect of it.
     
  11. OP
    Gaze

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    I'm curious as well.

    If anyone, who's good with MBTI, etc. can explain or provide an analysis of this issue through a discussion of typing and cognitive function usage, please feel free to comment.
     
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  12. enfp can be shy

    enfp can be shy people vs the bad people?
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    Workers of the world, relax.

    (but we still have some little work to make that happen, i know)

    I think people have to work on learning not to value work in itself so much. We've created a cult out of work, almost as if working makes all the good things for us, but as shocking as this may sound, it may not be entirely true anymore.
     
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    #12 enfp can be shy, Jun 2, 2010
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  13. sassafras

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    I think a strong work ethic is a good quality, but I don't think it necessarily makes someone a good person. In fact, I am a little skeptical of thinking that anyone one quality should be used as blanket determinant of someone's 'goodness.' Someone can be really nice to people, for example, but really rotten to their spouse or children. Someone might pay all their taxes and donate what they can to charity, but they make money on the side by trafficking cocaine to minors.

    I think overall goodness is more situation-oriented than anything. So at work, yeah, when there's a project deadline and everyone else has been slacking, the person who manages their time and puts in the work is going to be viewed as the good guy/girl. But are they really a good person? Depends who you're asking and what they themselves value as good.
     
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  14. OP
    Gaze

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    I think this is the real issue. We sometimes too quickly label or identify someone as good without looking or considering the entirety of someone's actions.
     
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  15. Trifoilum

    Trifoilum find wisdom, build hope.

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    it depends on the definition of a 'good person' itself. What makes someone 'good' ?
    Indeed, hard work and perseverance makes a good personality trait. Lack, or absence, of it, is nonetheless a bad personality trait; it's essentially laziness. To some, maybe weakness. But it's just as bad as not having kindness, not having compassion, not having assertiveness..... that kind of thing. It's not that if you don't work hard until you're stressed and fucked up, you're not a worthy human being. No. It's something resonating VERY CLOSE to home (/cough. I live with an ESTJ, ISTP, and ESFJ. Go figure.)

    But how far, and how much?

    From what I can see at this point, most people holding this kind of view believes that a 'good person' either a) successful in work / etc (in my home, this idea is implicitly hold by an ESTJ) b) must create something (is hold by an ESFJ) or c) both.

    So, what makes a good person?
     
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  16. OP
    Gaze

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    Of course, imo, we should respect those who work hard and appreciate good work ethic. Won't argue with that, but i think goodness as everyone has been saying, should always be placed in context. But the reason why i asked this question, however simplistic, was because the logic of "i'm a hard worker" is often used by too many to excuse poor behavior.

    We are human. And i'm not arguing that we can or will be perfect, but we are getting into the habit of using the idea of being a hard worker to justify being excused for other types of behavior which are clearly not good or unacceptable.
     
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    #16 Gaze, Jun 2, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2010
  17. OP
    Gaze

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    I'm beginning to sound repetitive, so i welcome new or divergent thoughts on this topic.
     
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  18. Trifoilum

    Trifoilum find wisdom, build hope.

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    I think it's the same as one claiming to be a 'good person' only because they're kind / smart / charming / ruthless / competent / able / handsome / sexy / whatever.
    It's like making a dish with only one ingredients. A salad with one vegetable. A painting with one color. It's very restricted and limited even when they can be good or actually good.

    But in this case, their hard-working can be 'foolishly headstrong' in my PoV, just as how my apparent lack of activity (even when I'm studying) can be 'lazying around doing nothing' in theirs.

    /shrugs

    it's a problem of perspective. Always that : |
     
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    #18 Trifoilum, Jun 2, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2010
  19. OP
    Gaze

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    Quite agree. Good comparisons in the first two paragraphs.
     
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  20. TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

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    no, working hard doesn't necessarily have anything to do with one's moral integrity. the two can co-exist (and in some cases they must), but they are not always causally related.
     
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