Does non-use or adversion to Ni boggle your mind?

[IndigoSensor]

A friend of mine is an ISTP, and I have been friends with him since like january. We get along pretty well despite having differences, and we sort of have this odd gravitation to each other. I have been talking to him on AIM tonight for a while about how for me I need to question things all the time, my need for self-understanding, self reflection, my adversion to uncertianty and his love for it, and all that good stuff that is the essence of Ni. Here is a quote from our conversation (I would love to post the whole thing but it is much too long):

I had been going on with him how, because of my nature, I ask myself "why" all the time. So I proceeded to give examples of when I did this, such as when I had a breakdown while having this adversion to homework, but he kind of was disintersted and couldnt apply it to himself. All the while explaing he didnt care and wouldnt do that. So finally potentially got something going.

He has just told me part of the reason he is the way he is is because his dad raised him with a "stiff upper lip" and discouraged flowery shows of emotions and all that jazz.

Me: But see you just did some processing (this function is called Ni, which stands for introversion intuition), by explaining the root of why you are the way you are. Now would you have any desire to wonder why you went along with your dad and moulded yourself around that?
Him: nope
Me: alright so I am going ask the perverbial question of "why?". This would give you insight to your own mind and why you think about things the way you do and how you react to other people. Two things that could become really useful for things later if imlemented.
Him: eh, stuff happens because it happens becase it happens. My mind works the way it does because that's how it works.
Me: *FACEPALM*

I am always trying to understand how people work that don't use Ni, or like in this case, really do not like using it or care to use it at all. I understand that people are this way. But I find it impossible to wrap my brain around it. It is extremely frustrating to me. Part of it is because people like this never seem to give an answer we can digest because they can't give an answer using Ni, or an answer that Ni can digest.

So my question is, do any of you become as frusterated as I do to try and understand people who have an adversion to Ni?

 

[dneecey]

Gosh. My husband is this way. The second I start going into depth about something and trying to figure it out outloud in front of him, he just shuts off. He makes fun of me for it and I laugh and shrug it off. Sure it can be frustrating, and when he sees me truly frustrated, sometimes he lets me ramble the inner workings of my mind, and provides a little insight. See the thing is just like your friend that said he is the way he is because of his dad. Well that's how my hon is. He does, without realizing put 2 and 2 together, he just doesn't see the need to go into it any deeper. When it comes to Jesse (hon) I just pick my battles. I don't mean that in a fighting way either, I just mean.. if there is something I really want to know, or for him to see in a deeper sense than I will take the time. If not, if it's not that important, than I will just let it go. He appreciates that and then when I want to talk about the big stuff he is more willing. Also, he takes what I have to say about things very much to heart, because he knows that I truly work things out in my mind before saying them. That's nice. It is just all chalked up to people all being different, and although I love INFJ's and can see how progressing particular functions can be worthwhile, I like that everyone is different.

Great thread by the way.

 

[mattysly]

Yeah I hear you IndigoSensor, I find it defies logic (and it is counter intuitive to how I think) that people don't use Ni to connect patterns of behaviour or thinking. They just say that something is what it is without explaining how or why that something is. It's frustrating, but I just have to keep reminding myself that these people use Se (or Si) and as such are operating to a different way of processing information. Discovering this has been great because in the past I had no idea "why" people couldn't understand me.

 

[Hinsoog]

Ohhh man, definately. I think that may just be one of the single most frustrating things of my life. You know, it's really amazing, I have to say, I too have frequently been using "why" exactly as you use it here. I have frequently described to people that "why" is always a part of me, "why" just as you describe it, and shockingly absent from many many that surround me. I want to recall something a professor in an anthropology class said to me: "People are always rational in their own minds". And of course, what is more rational than really asking why... I mean seriously, many people pour huge spans of their lifetimes and amazing amounts of energy on following examples and what appear to be ideas that they really haven't truly examined. Why wouldn't anyone consider the process of generating as many perspectives as possible about paths and attitudes that they follow a rational process? I have an idea that needs a couple layers of explaining.

I think the first part of it, is that for most people, because of their personality disposition, Ni just doesn't feel natural in a seemingly efficient, instinctual sort of way, and certainly doesn't feel approacheable. Now I feel like that statement might possibly end up seeming like stating the obvious considering our fascination with personality typing, but let me explain.

I think that the most natural and instinctual way for many people to decide and to react is to follow vivid examples/illustrations that blair loudly in their mind. It seems like these examples, so vivid in their mind, beg for nothing more but additional concrete examples to overpower the volume of their own precious examples, precious examples that dominate their perceptions. It feels like fake thinking to me. Let me explain further...

You might enjoy reading about probalistic reasoning. The idea is that so many things that numbers and data can show to be basically true are not absoloute, so people can always trick themselves by focusing on some contrary example that is blairingly loud in their mind. Now, I'm kinda making a stretch here drawing this connection, but I think for a lot of sensors, living naturally is a matter of bouncing from one loud example to the next, never really doing the good digging we treasure in Ni. Ni seems almost like it can function as a cheat code of wondering, wondering about what I guess I'll describe as the soundness of any one example, constantly sifting through for more and more perspectives.

I also want to stress again the idea of approachability. To me, just as a general rule, approachability cannot be underestimated. And it's hard to really communicate properly, but if feels like there are ways to sort of help people experience it by just making it more approachable, which takes a tremendous effort.

Anyway, it's another example of just how rich and useful MBTI really is. Ni for the win!

 

[rainrise]

metaphorically, these encounters with such people are likened to a huge boulder in the path of a flowing river or a fork at which you must either decide which way to go or stop.

in the case of the boulder, my thoughts (the river flow) become blocked upon encountering matter that is quite different from my own. first, i'll try to push it and see if it moves the way that is natural to my own.

then, usually i'll find i am stumped and will have to work around it. this leads to less volume of flow upon trying to encompass something so different, but ultimately i find that i am able to compromise my own direction in the attempt to get around the difference.

in the end, the boulder remains and i go on my way just as before until another one comes along.

in the case of the situation being likened to a fork in the river, one path resembles my own comfortable view of the scene whereas the other is a path i seldom take, but offers another view.

by taking the path i am comfortable with (Ni), i become baffled as to why/how anyone else could take the other when this one is so fitting. i start thinking it impossible to grasp why anyone could not see what i see which leads to the thought that i can't understand them and that they can't understand me either.

if i were to follow the other person into the other path every time i reached the fork, it may seem irrelevant, dumbfounding, or frustrating when treading on something unfamiliar. the other person seems to be fine while i am there asking why or better, perhaps trying to skew my perception to resemble theirs.

i guess it boils down to accepting that different dominant processes somtimes offer very different views of the world.

it is baffling though, especially when i forget that the certain someone has a history of withdrawing every time i touch upon Ni related things. sometimes, i can draw understanding from them little by litte but this takes tact and good timing.

 

[dylan]

Yes, IS, it boggles my mind that there are people out there who don't think that "why?" is the greatest question ever.

 

[Tamagochi]

According to Jung all people have ALL 8 functions at their disposal. The difference lies in preferences which one to use first and how much "trained" those processes are. If you use only a couple of them all the time, then your personality becomes one-sided. So variety is good for oneself - and your ISTP friend could use some Ni

MBTI aside, when it comes to family and other sensitive past, the topic can become a lot more complicated. It's quite possible that your friend really wants to speak about his feelings and about the "why" part, but the influence from his father is too strong to overcome. Because doing that would be "unmanly" and "traitorous" in his mind. And your theory deriving from this can be incorrect.

 

[Sneppy]

Indigo's Friend Speaks!

Heya buddies

just read through this thread a bit and though i'd put my little stance on it and give you all something to get all frustrated with.

Yes, I am the friend that Indigo was referring to in his post.

I honestly don't understand why you're all so hung up on something that's so minuscule...

My stance on this type of thing is as follows:
I live for the moment and the uncertainty it holds. Such as "This looks dangerous. Will I get hurt? Screw it I'm going for it."

To me, the over-thinking of things does two things:
it takes away the fun and rush uncertainty holds, and
it makes things kinda lame...

If i were to sit in a spot just... thinking, about everything, about myself, that would make me depressed. I am who I am and I don't really care why. As long as I'm happy (and maybe rich) I'm ok with who I am and i don't really care to get to know myself a little better.

This doesn't necessarily mean i'm narrow or closed minded about certain topics in the news today, some controversial. It simply means these three words that you will all hate:
I. Don't. Care.

Why worry about all these HUUUGE and broad topics all day every day? Whenever I do, I either get upset or angry. While I do aknowledge that some problems need to be addressed before they become destructive in the future, everything else just... I can't really explain it. Why worry and think about every single little thing and detail when you can live for the moment and live your life? You've only got so many moments, and you've only got one life...

 

[dneecey]

Hi Sneppy.

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. This is just your personality and that's just the way you are. Sure, but just like you do whatever you do, in not thinking and not caring, it's like a subconscious thing. Well that's how we are in overthinking.

I sometimes wish that I could just not care, but it won't ever happen. The best I can do is to find some sort of balance.

I will say though I wonder if it's all IS types that "see" things like you do. My hon is IS too and he thinks exactly like you. I can't tell you how many times a day he says to me, "I don't care.."

Thanks for replying by the way. It's nice to know your perspective. Oh also, although the don't care attitude usually frustrates me to no end, I will say I admire your "go for it" personality. I think that's why IS's intrigue me.

 

[Sneppy]

many thanks for the response

thought don't think too harshly on yourself for not being able to not care

caring is a very, very, good thing. it also helps you think, which can help avoid a great amount of BAD situations. *isn't speaking from experience or anything*

and one thing about my "go for it" attitude that can't really be respected is that i have a total and complete lack of shame

This is why i can never go to vegas... or live under my REAL name.... or travel during the daylight...unarmed...

 

[dneecey]

many thanks for the response

thought don't think too harshly on yourself for not being able to not care

caring is a very, very, good thing. it also helps you think, which can help avoid a great amount of BAD situations. *isn't speaking from experience or anything*

and one thing about my "go for it" attitude that can't really be respected is that i have a total and complete lack of shame

This is why i can never go to vegas... or live under my REAL name.... or travel during the daylight...unarmed...

Oh No! You're funny, too. *shakes head, smiling*

Well I hope you stick around, or at least drop by here every now and then. It'll keep things interesting.

Plus I really like Indy and if you're one of his friends, you can't be too bad.
Although, I've been wrong before.

 

[domino]

I have ESTP friend ( I'm pretty sure he is that type, even he didn't take MBTI test). And it's fascinating how well he can improvise in social situations. We were working in project with orphan children together. For instance, I tend to plan plan plan everything and then act, but there is many situacion which can't be predictable. So it was very nice to have such person as him near.

 

[arbygil]

Sneppy, I love your avatr.

Personally, someone who doesn't use N or Ni doesn't bug me that much anymore unless I'm in an intense conversation with them. Lack of Ni can bug me, but I've learned to watch for people's responses and tailor my questions so I'm (relatively) understood. I HATE to be misunderstood.

I've lived around non-N's for so long that I've just gotten used to it. You learn to live with it when you're older. Doesn't make it any less annoying, but I automatically expect to be misunderstood. It surprises the heck out of me when I *am* understood.

 

[TaylorS]

To be picky, SPs can and do use Ni, it's just the lowest in usage preference of the 4 processes they use consciously. Its NPs and SJs that have a hard time with Ni because it is an unconscious "shadow" process for them.

In my experience my Dominant Ni seems to make people think I'm crazy, and I tended to piss off my math teacher by "just knowing" the right answer and not "showing my work".

 

[Sneppy]

Sneppy, I love your avatr.

Personally, someone who doesn't use N or Ni doesn't bug me that much anymore unless I'm in an intense conversation with them. Lack of Ni can bug me, but I've learned to watch for people's responses and tailor my questions so I'm (relatively) understood. I HATE to be misunderstood.

I've lived around non-N's for so long that I've just gotten used to it. You learn to live with it when you're older. Doesn't make it any less annoying, but I automatically expect to be misunderstood. It surprises the heck out of me when I *am* understood.

Many thanks for the compliment

And while I have to admit I am guilty of playing my card of not caring in an intense conversation, I don't usually do it without reason.

I'm not one to usually back away in an intense conversation that might actually stimulate my interest.

And yes, live with us... become one... OBEY