Do most INFJs really believe they are empaths?

[Eventhorizon]

Just a quick question to all those who consider themselves infjs. I have had enough conversations here where someone professes to know the feeling behind my post and responds to it in tbat regard and where they are completely wrong about any feeling I have behind it. Its my opinion currently that infjs have no empathic ability. Only that they overlay their own strong feeling onto someone else and therefore think they know what another person is feeling because of it.

Thoughts?

 

[invisible]

I don't agree with your conclusions about empathy. However we do seem to find it difficult to listen properly to others over the high volume of our own convictions. I think that usually those convictions have come about because we have empathised so deeply with some particular group that we get too angry to listen to alternative perspectives.

Like all other personality types, we do have imperfections that we need to try to deal with. But I wish there would be a bit more of a culture of discussing those imperfections in a healthy and non judgmental sort of way. (Just FYI, I do not consider your way of broaching the topic to be non judgmental... or even remotely empathic either, for that matter.) I did make a thread about listening recently but other INFJs didn't seem very interested in talking about it. Only one of the responses was from another INFJ. It was disappointing.

 

[hush]

This is also the internet. Miscommunication happens. It's possible that it's not a lack of empathy, but rather, a lack of clarity in how we are conveying ourselves.

Saying all INFJs have "no empathic ability" because of solely your experiences on one forum is a huge leap to make and also conveniently takes all responsibility for the miscommunication out of your hands. Do not forget, communication is a two-way street. And like I said, this is the internet. I don't identify as an INFJ, but INFJs aren't wizards. You can't realistically expect anyone, regardless of type, to always be able to read your emotions when one is not speaking face to face, or even using one's voice. Much is lost in translation.

 

[Artisan]

[MENTION=8603]Eventhorizon[/MENTION] , According to online tests I am one, and according to simular online tests I am some type of elemental dragon or a knight...
but it is like hush said I think it is unrealistic to believe an empath will aways know what you're feeling just because some online tests peg them for one.

Besides, do you honestly believe someone when they come up to you and say: "I'm an empath and I know what you're feeling, and I just had to talk to you" ?
Like 99.99% of the time the first thought someone will have is probably something like "wtf some crazy person is pretending to know me x)".
Empaths are not some kind of psychics contrary to lots of peoples wishfull thinking. I am not sure what even brought that notion into peoples heads.

A lot of INFJ's do believe they are empaths but their actions tend to prove that most of them are a lot less empathic then they imagine themselves to be ;p
Plenty of us are sympathetic as hell but only have the barest of grains of empathy more then your avarage person and they will claim to be empathic ;p

If people are really empaths then I doubt they will need to tell you that or phrase their sentences in ways to suggest that they believe they are.
It sounds a lot more like they're trying to convince themselves as much as they're trying to convince you.

And if someone really is an empath, then you will make that conclusion yourself after a passage of time,
and your own thoughts and feelings on a matter are a lot more reliable then someone spelling their self proclaimed awesomeness out for you.


But hey that's just my opinion ^^

 

[Eventhorizon]

[MENTION=8603]Eventhorizon[/MENTION] , According to online tests I am one, and according to simular online tests I am some type of elemental dragon or a knight...
but it is like hush said I think it is unrealistic to believe an empath will aways know what you're feeling just because some online tests peg them for one.

Besides, do you honestly believe someone when they come up to you and say: "I'm an empath and I know what you're feeling, and I just had to talk to you" ?
Like 99.99% of the time the first thought someone will have is probably something like "wtf some crazy person is pretending to know me x)".
Empaths are not some kind of psychics contrary to lots of peoples wishfull thinking. I am not sure what even brought that notion into peoples heads.

A lot of INFJ's do believe they are empaths but their actions tend to prove that most of them are a lot less empathic then they imagine themselves to be ;p
Plenty of us are sympathetic as hell but only have the barest of grains of empathy more then your avarage person and they will claim to be empathic ;p

If people are really empaths then I doubt they will need to tell you that or phrase their sentences in ways to suggest that they believe they are.
It sounds a lot more like they're trying to convince themselves as much as they're trying to convince you.

And if someone really is an empath, then you will make that conclusion yourself after a passage of time,
and your own thoughts and feelings on a matter are a lot more reliable then someone spelling their self proclaimed awesomeness out for you.


But hey that's just my opinion ^^

Great response. I am a bit confused though and maybe its because "empath" has a different definition. So while we are using the same word it means different things. What in your mind constitutes an empath?
Btw I hope this ia a question [MENTION=4598]hush[/MENTION] and [MENTION=1814]invisible[/MENTION] will consider as well.

 

[Eventhorizon]

This is also the internet. Miscommunication happens. It's possible that it's not a lack of empathy, but rather, a lack of clarity in how we are conveying ourselves.

Saying all INFJs have "no empathic ability" because of solely your experiences on one forum is a huge leap to make and also conveniently takes all responsibility for the miscommunication out of your hands. Do not forget, communication is a two-way street. And like I said, this is the internet. I don't identify as an INFJ, but INFJs aren't wizards. You can't realistically expect anyone, regardless of type, to always be able to read your emotions when one is not speaking face to face, or even using one's voice. Much is lost in translation.

Thats a good point. I was wondering if anyone would make the suggestion that empathic abilities if real would fail in an online medium such as a discussion forum...

 

[Artisan]

Great response. I am a bit confused though and maybe its because "empath" has a different definition. So while we are using the same word it means different things. What in your mind constitutes an empath?.

Actually according to dictionaries there is only one meaning to it.


For me though the main meaning to it is simply:

- The ability to place yourself in another persons shoes and experience another person's emotions with them as they feel it.
- The ability to feel what it must have been like if you were to be some character in a movie, book or the feelings one might have had when composing some piece of music or writing a poem.
- Being able to walk in a room and instantly feel where someone specific is, be it that they're depressed, abnormally happy or someone you're looking for without having seen them, like picking up on their presence/energy.
- Seeming to know random shit about people without being told. (although it's always something somewhat emotional in nature)
(like not by default but like random whilst talking to someone one might suddenly believe a perfectly straight looking person to be bi or gay and end up being right, this stuff happens with other stuff too like you suddenly ask someone about their new car out of the blue and find out they just bought that car, whilst it appears like knowing it feels like its more of an intuition thing that you can have but usually there is nothing that you can consciously attribute that to, so it might possibly be a subconscious observation of things but then again how do you pick up on someone having bought a new car without having spoken to them before or even being far enough in a conversation to pick up on that? and before you ask, how is that emotional in nature, well you should hear someone who's excited about his new car talk... It can sound pretty damn well emotional at times )

There are a lot of other attributes often attributed to empaths but I am not so sure that's not from being a HSP or just really sensitive to changes in peoples behavior or some subconscious set of observations or something.
And whilst I can find myself in the majority of traits people tend to list for empaths, I thus don't see how those are exclusive to empaths and thus I believe them to be unrelated.

the last two points tho... I think they might too be attributed to being Hyper Sensitive or Aware of other people.
And picking up on someones presence tends to remind me of that feeling you get when someone is watching you and you turn around and you see you were right.
Fun fact about that, lots of snipers, tails and tactical units tend to purposely look past their targets until the last moment so as not to trigger that sensation x)

 

[Eventhorizon]

Actually according to dictionaries there is only one meaning to it.


For me though the main meaning to it is simply:

- The ability to place yourself in another persons shoes and experience another person's emotions with them as they feel it.
- The ability to feel what it must have been like if you were to be some character in a movie, book or the feelings one might have had when composing some piece of music or writing a poem.
- Being able to walk in a room and instantly feel where someone specific is, be it that they're depressed, abnormally happy or someone you're looking for without having seen them, like picking up on their presence/energy.
- Seeming to know random shit about people without being told. (although it's always something somewhat emotional in nature)
(like not by default but like random whilst talking to someone one might suddenly believe a perfectly straight looking person to be bi or gay and end up being right, this stuff happens with other stuff too like you suddenly ask someone about their new car out of the blue and find out they just bought that car, whilst it appears like knowing it feels like its more of an intuition thing that you can have but usually there is nothing that you can consciously attribute that to, so it might possibly be a subconscious observation of things but then again how do you pick up on someone having bought a new car without having spoken to them before or even being far enough in a conversation to pick up on that? and before you ask, how is that emotional in nature, well you should hear someone who's excited about his new car talk... It can sound pretty damn well emotional at times )

There are a lot of other attributes often attributed to empaths but I am not so sure that's not from being a HSP or just really sensitive to changes in peoples behavior or some subconscious set of observations or something.
And whilst I can find myself in the majority of traits people tend to list for empaths, I thus don't see how those are exclusive to empaths and thus I believe them to be unrelated.

the last two points tho... I think they might too be attributed to being Hyper Sensitive or Aware of other people.
And picking up on someones presence tends to remind me of that feeling you get when someone is watching you and you turn around and you see you were right.
Fun fact about that, lots of snipers, tails and tactical units tend to purposely look past their targets until the last moment so as not to trigger that sensation x)

Do you feel then that its possible to "feel other people's emotions as they feel them" over a medium lke the Internet? Especially when a post you may be reading may have been typed hours ago?

 

[Artisan]

Do you feel then that its possible to "feel other people's emotions as they feel them" over a medium lke the Internet? Especially when a post you may be reading may have been typed hours ago?

Would that not be way after the fact it was written and thus be your own projection of what it must be like to be a person and what they felt as they wrote something?
Though I do believe that the internet does not matter, quantum physics make distance irrelevant, why would picking up on someones emotions be ?

That said, I think the situation you described falls into the "feel what it must have been like if you were the person who wrote it" but that is all from the readers perspective, thus it would be a projection of ones own feelings on what they would feel if they wrote that. its still a form of empathy but its of what they would feel in a given situation, not necessarily what you felt.

 

[nosferatu]

I think most INFJ are good at reading body language and finding underlying intent/meaning in what people say. Having said this, I have met with INFJ irl and they were actually very wrong about how I was truly feeling.

I think if I had to peg any type as an empath, it would be someone with an introverted feeling function.

But then again we should define what empath truly is here, are we talking about the mystical unicorn prophet people who can communicate with spirits and see your auras?

 

[Artisan]

I think most INFJ are good at reading body language and finding underlying intent/meaning in what people say. Having said this, I have met with INFJ irl and they were actually very wrong about how I was truly feeling.

I agree, that this is likely what people mistake this stuff for someone being an empath.

With how often people seem to come across infj's though it seems like we're the most common type in the world.
So I always doubt it when people say they've come across an INFJ or several of them.
Also If not all infjs are empaths (something I strongly believe) then how are they supposed to know what you're feeling

I think if I had to peg any type as an empath, it would be someone with an introverted feeling function.

I would not peg any MBTI type as an empath based on the MBTI type.

are we talking about the mystical unicorn prophet people who can communicate with spirits and see your auras?

Hell no x)

 

[Wyote]

It is next to impossible to gauge actual intent online. Especially when people's behavior does not match their true feelings, which is very often the case both consciously and subconsciously by people online. Incongruent behavior is more easily read in person.

The thing that INFJs are actually good at is connecting with individuals on a deeply personal level. This requires the other person to be open to letting somebody else into their world. INFJs are often the ones that others allow into their personal worlds because we are adept at making this an easy, gentle, non-threatening process. In doing so, we can provide deeper insight, because we have a perspective that is outside and free of the emotional baggage the person carries and we are skilled in solving emotionally related conflicts.

It is empathy. It is empathic. It is not mystical, but it does channel things that are often not understood by others and in some cases not yet fully understood by science and so it can be labeled as "magic."

Magic's just science that we don't understand yet. — Arthur C. Clarke


Being an INFJ does not make you skilled in this manner, but it gives you the tools to grow this as a skill.

 

[charlatan]

Well ability is separate from preference --- just as an INT may value logical reasons based on objectivity, but not be particularly good with them, an INF may value being able to feel what others feel, but be unable to really do it well. Ability is the privilege of few. On average interest helps ability of course.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Well ability is separate from preference --- just as an INT may value logical reasons based on objectivity, but not be particularly good with them, an INF may value being able to feel what others feel, but be unable to really do it well. Ability is the privilege of few. On average interest helps ability of course.

Im sorry, are you suggesting and intj may not be good at what they take an interest in?

 

[charlatan]

Sure; I'm suggesting that, just as with any type, what they're "into"/interested in/prefer doesn't correspond perfectly with their level of talent at it.

Which goes the same for INFJs who may want to be empaths, but may not necessarily be good at it (some are, some aren't).

 

[camomile]

Heres where I'll break it to you, Ni is the first function of INTJ's and INFJ, meaning internal reality. Fe is not the first function of INFJ's despite being able to feel being what they're most famous for. That's ESFJ's and ENFJ's. Thinking is what INTJ's are most famous for but it is their second function, like the INFJ's with Fe. You don't actually have to be that good at it, your second function.

It's just occurred to me I'm having a reality sting, you seem to be having one too. Te..

 

[charlatan]

Yeah you don't have to be good at the second function, although Jung seemed to think most people were somewhat more balanced between them; he did however talk of the case of the extreme introverted intuitive type who took intuition so far as to mostly lack judgment.

 

[MissionHouse]

I disagree with you, but I respect your feeling on this matter. I have strong empathic abilities. However, I try to remind myself that I may not always be right about these things, even though I usually feel that I am right about them. I don't want to come across as being a know-it-all. My late INFJ mother was also very perceptive about the underlying motivations of others. Even she acknowledged that I am more sensitive than she was, though.

Even if I get it wrong about a person, I was still on to something with my perceptions most of the time. I also think that many people do not want to acknowledge certain feelings within themselves, or simply do not know how they are feeling, and so therefore someone who gets impressions from them (that they do not want, or cannot recognize) is "wrong". Most of the time, I'm not buying that argument, but I pretty much keep it all to myself. I'm not a big talker, or a big mouth. I am very quiet and careful about what I know about people, unless I feel threatened or they greatly offend me (which is hard to do).

 

[Eventhorizon]

Ive had people blatantly say about me that they cant "read" me. Ive heard this so many times now its funny. And yet, people laugh at a good portion of the things I say.

 

[La Sagna]

I'm not sure how someone could feel someone's thoughts or emotions from forum posts. They may be able to deduce some sort of conclusion and get an idea of what they think the person is like, but it wouldn't be anything like the feelings you can get being with someone in person. I know people often deduce things completely wrong from my posts. I find that people have preconceived ideas of certain types of people and situations and then just generalize from that.

As for being an empath. I seem to fit the criteria quite well.
I can't say that I really understand it and I really dislike when people say that being an empath means that you can read minds and that you know the other person better than they know themselves. I find that claim to be very conceited and disrespectful.
What I know is that people's emotions impact me greatly. I feel the need to fix and soothe everybody because I am so affected by their emotions. It's almost like I feel their emotions more powerfully than my own. Perhaps because I feel like I can control my own but that it is much more difficult to control other people's emotions.

People seem to have an energy that I can feel; some people (very few) have energies that feel very comfortable to me; most people have energies that leave me slightly uncomfortable; others have energies that drain me completely. The weird thing is that it is very hard for me to predict who's energy will feel comfortable for me. Some 'rough' seeming people have had comfortable energies and some people that everybody else seems to love have had uncomfortable energies for me. Some people that have been very extroverted have had comfortable energies and some people that on the surface would seem more similar to me have had very uncomfortable energies. I have to assume that I feel their inner selves independent of how they appear outwardly. Also, some people's energies have seemed to change, almost like I can feel that they are very uncomfortable with themselves which makes me uncomfortable.

The energies of most groups of people drain me and leave me feeling very uncomfortable. However, I am better at blocking it now, but it does make me distant and seem 'stuck up'. Only once was I in a large crowd and felt very comfortable. That was at an international gathering of professional women who raise money and awareness to help women and girls throughout the world. There were about 1000 women in a room and I felt at home. It was amazing. It made me realize that these women likely had an energy much more compatible to mine than your average group of people. It was a revelation to me that I could be in such a large group and not feel overwhelmed.